<p>Grcxx–I found your post very sincere. I agree, the students, parents and alumni are not at fault. Wishing your son a good third year. I can certainly understand that the students want to start a new history. I can feel for you as a parent, it must feel very unfair that the university where your son is studying is going through such upheaval.</p>
<p>Grcxx, The students are not at fault. I agree. I think what spikes the anger directed at PSU is (1) the lack of concern for the victims by several officials including Paterno in his email to his players, Spanier in his initial statement and others. (2) The minimizing of the actions of Paterno, Spanier, Schultz and Curley. There is a denial of the level of wrongdoing that is exasperating to witness on an ongoing basis, i.e. faculty member John McDonnell’s article. (3) Instead of accountability and remorse there is whining and complaining.</p>
<p>
I apparently read his statement very differently than you did - I read that he was angry that (a) Erickson was acting unilaterally, without the informed consent of the full Board of Trustess and that (b) in the process of saving football from the death penalty he was willing to accept without challenge slurs made to the academic integrity of the university.</p>
<p>On the first point, he is not disputing the need to take the deal - he is questioning the process used to do so, and the integrity of a man who at this very critical juncture is willing to flaunt the regulations. For a man who swore that he would do everything openly and in full coordination with the BoT, faculty, students, and alumni, going it alone and in secret is simply not acceptable, especially when it is against the rules that are so important right now to stick to. He may well have made 100% the right decision, but he should not have made it alone.</p>
<p>On the second point, he is noting that many of the charges made against the university are false, and are easily disproven. It is not enough to accept the charges - as the President in this situation he should be fighting for the truth, and that includes admitting the bad without sacrificing the good. I can see no problem with this side of the argument.</p>
<p>myturnnow - thanks. </p>
<p>I am not from PA, so don’t have any life-long stake in this. I am also not a huge football fan. Like it, watch it (usually while scrapbooking) - but that’s it. And, as it stands now, my son will probably graduate without us ever seeing him perform in a half-time show. But from the moment my son stepped foot on campus the summer before his senior year - he knew it was the right place for him. It offered him everything he wanted (okay - he probably would have preferred a more southern climate!), and it just felt right. So, yes, it’s hard.</p>
<p>OhioMom - I understand your view. Taking your points singly…
(1) - While the people in charge certainly disregarded the victims, the student body and alumni acknowledged the horrors that the victims endured and immediately embraced the opportunity raise money, awareness, and education about child abuse. That, to me, is a very positive step, even tho some people here insist on questioning their motives. </p>
<p>(2) - There will always be people who refuse to believe Paterno was involved - no matter what evidence is presented. Nothing will change that. But most acknowledge that all of them were culpable and deserve to be prosecuted to whatever extent is allowable by law. (Not a lawyer, so there may be legal issues to prevent them being hanged by their toe-nails) Again, there will be idiots out there who have blinders on, but that is to be expected.</p>
<p>(3) I think a lot of the “whining and complaining” comes from frustration, anger, and an incredible sense of helplessness. We didn’t cause this, but we’re being blamed for it - yet we can’t do anything to fix it. Add to that the attacks that have been made toward the Penn State community as a whole - and it is really overwhelming. In short - people that we should have been able to trust failed everyone…the alumni, the students, the parents, the faculty, the community, and most importantly the young victims. It’s just sickening. </p>
<p>(Yeah, I know, I’m supposed to be packing. I’m making progress - have a load of laundry in the washer!)</p>
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</p>
<p>Spanier: ignored the fact that someone was raping little kids on school property and luring them to games with football tickets.</p>
<p>Erickson: agreed to some football penalties.</p>
<p>I am disgusted anyone would even consider this comparison. I hope this professor isn’t teaching any ethics classes.</p>
<p>I am curious if the professor who the one sports writer thought was just being a “jealous egghead” when he warned the sports writer about Paterno is still working / alive.</p>
<p>Quite a lot of reading y’all gave me this morning.</p>
<p>Grcxx3 - your post about your son and the 2016 class gave a very insightful look into the students’ minds. In our outrage at this whole debacle, it is very easy to overlook the position these students are now in, and to forget these are real people being affected by all of it. Similar to the mentality of a lynch mob, which is to dehumanize its victims. The current students are also victims here. Thanks for the reminder.</p>
<p>And no, I’m not saying there is a lynch mob here, just that it was a good check to stop and really consider the students.</p>
<p>Grcxx3</p>
<p>I’m sorry about how this might affect your son. The students of Penn State had nothing to do with this sad story. The current administration seems to have failed to protect children and they need to be held accountable. The same kinds of things are happening all over the world every day. That’s even more sad, but it doesn’t mean a Penn State education isn’t great. Best wishes for your son at the school he loves.</p>
<p>Oh, Curley, Schultz and Spanier are not without consequences. They are suffering mightily now. I hope Spanier is indicted. The university should be looking at sanctions against all of those involved in this, including the BOT who were so useless. They should be replaced; they should resign. Curley and Schultz will probably do time. I don’t see how they will get off on these charges, so I do believe their fates are in the hands of the court, the system, the jury, and the University and all need to be careful not to do something foolish that could cause a mistrial or a technicality to get them off. They are entitled to their trial, should get fair opportunity to present their defense. I have no doubt they are under tremendous stress and fear. </p>
<p>I haven’t read much about Corbett’s involvement being investigated. </p>
<p>I hope that all of this having happened is causing other schools to make sure they are complying with the Clery Act and that systems are being put into place where anyone can report abuses that are happening, not just in terms of child molestation, but other things where a department, people, a person is looking the other way and letting questionable practices occur. Someone should have been able to report that Sandusky was taking showers with boys, bringing kids to the gym alone on a regular basis, that something did not look right and have it examined. If indeed it had been a case where he just had bad judgement in doing things that looked improper, he could have been told, (as he was, supposedly) and if he persisted in acting that way something more drastic done.</p>
<p>I’m probably going to be flamed for this, but I honestly think that for the vast majority of Penn State students and faculty the sanctions are fairly meaningless*. Kids will return this fall, classes will resume as usual, football games will be played, and people will attend or not. If the team loses more than it wins, the fans will still support it. Kids will go on to graduate. They will be hired for jobs based on their accomplishments, majors, GPAs, and personalities, as they always have been. Any employer who bases hiring decisions on something that happened within the administrative structure of the university a student attended is an employer I wouldn’t want to work for anyway. </p>
<p>*By meaningless, I mean that the sanctions, while appropriately affecting the football program and the university itself, are not going to affect the average student or faculty member, or the English Department, and that’s as it should be. The university’s administration and athletics department will have a lot of work to do to restructure and to reprioritize, and a few kids and alumni will be obnoxious and get all the press attention, but everyone else will carry on.</p>
<p>“Quote:
if Penn State wants to be all about academics then they shouldn’t mind giving up football. Just my opinion.
wow… some of you will never cease to amaze me.”</p>
<p>Why? What’s so important about football - a GAME, not an area of academics, in case you’ve forgotten -that it has to be sacrosanct as part of a university? What, there are no other places people can get their football fix?</p>
<p>"Any employer who bases hiring decisions on something that happened within the administrative structure of the university a student attended is an employer I wouldn’t want to work for anyway. "</p>
<p>Glad you can be so picky. I don’t think anyone who is just eliminating Penn State students because of this or is whole sale eliminating any group of people is doing the right thing, and I don’t know anyone who would do this, but I don’t feel the way you do about it. If I, or anyone really needs a job, and someone on the brink of giving a good job, feels this way, it would hurt. If I needed that job enough, I would still want that job. It would hurt to get barred that way, and, yes, I would rather they gave me the job. I have worked for jerks before, many of us do and have, and many of us still wanted, no even needed the job. There are some dire reasons for which I would refuse a job, but this is not one of them. </p>
<p>Penn State was a school actively on our kids lists. Not anymore. Too many schools out there without this mess so current, so I would not want to apply there. Just leaves a bad feeling, taste and has killed my interest in having any of my kids going there. My kids feel the same way. I know two kids who have transferred, two who are in the process, one will be out after the fall semester, as the accept for the transfer is the spring semester. These are all prime students who have the grades to be viable transfer students, have the get up and go to do the paper work, only did so because of this mess, and are full pay OOS kids. This is just my small view of what is happening, and none of this reflected in any Penn State stats YET.</p>
<p>My youngest started college last year, and I must admit I’d be sick had he chosen Penn State. If I had any more coming of college age, I also would cross Penn State off the list of options. The future is still too unknown. We don’t know how much the civil liability is going to be. It could end up crushing the institution. Their insurance company has filed suit to disengage themselves from paying (<a href=“http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/25/us/pennsylvania-penn-state-insurer/index.html[/url]”>Penn State insurer seeks to deny coverage - CNN; ). We don’t know how much money the jury at the civil trials will find fair for the victims. This whole mess isn’t over.</p>
<p>We are not rich and as we would be OOS, the cost is too high to risk on Penn State at this time.</p>
<p>I would not encourage an application to Penn State at this point. Far too many factors are up in the air. Clery Act violations could impact financial aid, which would impact funding, civil suits are sure to be coming, the administration needs time to get it’s act together (including the BOT). We would be OOS, there are a lot of options and I don’t see any overwhelming reason to choose PSU.</p>
<p>Of course, there may be instate students for whom this is a top choice. I hope all this mess does not impact their education. But somehow I think it will. There is a lot of money involved in all this–the bills for legal advice alone must be staggering. With state funding being stagnant at best, and reduced in some states, I wouldn’t want to risk it.</p>
<p>What is most disturbing to me is the faculty and student responses that PSU was treated unfairly, and not viewing this as an opportunity for the academic programs to have more power within the PSU administration. Even if many faculty feel that way (which I hope they do!), if they are afraid to say it, it is telling.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Do you know of a state in the US where there is “not a system in place for us to be able to report something like this.”?</p>
<p>Any of the players in this sad saga could have reported this. Pennsylvania law makes it clear than anyone who suspects child abuse may report it. Unfortunately, the law in PA apparently didn’t require many of them to report it directly to at least CPS, even the one who witnessed it with his own very eyes.</p>
<p>Naturally, he has a JD and last I could see did not teach an ethics course, per se, but taugth legal and HR courses.</p>
<p>HRIM 405 Legal Aspects of the Hospitality Industry</p>
<p>HRIM 466 Human Resource Management in the Hospitality Industry</p>
<p>HRIM 467 Management of Hotel & Restaurant Employee Relations</p>
<p>HRIM 490W Strategic Hospitality Management</p>
<p>There were people who were legally required to report it and did not. Also, it was very clearly stated that the Clery Act and other provisions were not even read, much less the info made known. Even those responsible for seeing that the Act and other legal requirements did not bother to read or even know what those requirements are. I don’t believe for a minute that Penn State is the only institution who has been ignoring these requirements. I hope this gives other organizations some incentive to read these requirements and implement procedures that are specified in them. </p>
<p>The whole situation at Penn State just leaves a stench, and I wouldn’t want to have a student going in there under those circumstances when there are other choices without these problems being in the forefront. For many students, it will still be the best choice. It is one of the best in state choices for Pennsylvania students. I have a feeling Pitt is going to be rising in selectivity this year.</p>
<p>Cpt, there is another issue. Right now, especially with families with income above $100,000, more kids are living at home. IMHO, the fiancial pressures are hitting them now, and they are making decisions that people with lower income have always donet. Many more kids can commute to Temple and Pitt. In the past, a kid might have been lured by the siren of BigTimeFootball, and then justified PSU to his parents, that may not be happening so much now.</p>
<p>Grcxx3, If I were a student at PSU I would not take the criticism personally. The legitimate criticism is directed at the individuals. Granted, they ran the University, but the students are not at fault and should not take it on. However, I would acknowledge that there were officials at fault and I would be angry at those officials and demand accountability from those officials! I would not defend them, or minimize their actions and that seems to be what many are doing.</p>
<p><a href=“3”>quote</a> I think a lot of the “whining and complaining” comes from frustration, anger, and an incredible sense of helplessness.
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<p>Grccx, I think that when Penn Staters have had a chance to catch their breath, there’s going to be much less “whining and complaining.” Because for all the doom and gloom, who is really getting hurt by the sanctions? As I posted several dozen pages ago, the team will still play, fans will still cheer, money will still flow. </p>
<p>I remember you having two major concerns about sanctions: How “sideline” actors such as cheer and band would be affected, and how local merchants would be affected. After all is said and done, cheer and band will still participate, and local merchants will still get home-game revenues. </p>
<p>I can’t understand why Penn Staters aren’t more relieved and happy about the sanctions. They really did dodge a bullet.</p>