Penn State Sandusky scandal

Parent Cafe
7441

<p>Kayf, I agree. I just had coffee last week with an admissions officer who gave me some inside scoop about how the economy is finally hitting some of the schools that were not affected much in prior years. He says it’s about a 5 year lag before these things hit some schools, so things are happening now where families are having to make financial decisions about where their kids go to college.</p>

<p>Penn State’s big draw as the flagship state school is that students can get into a satellite campus nearly anywhere in the state and commute to such a campus with reduced tution (as compared to Pitt, Univesity Park, Temple) rates and then automatically transfer over to the main campus when they get junior standing. For those who live in Pittsburgh or Philly, yes, they can commute to those schools for less than going away for 4 years at University Park and paying room and board as well as tuition, but the state of PA is a big,and though those are major cities that have a lot of college students, there are many students for whom Penn State is by far the best deal, especially with the sateliite campus option. </p>

<p>Not so with OOS kids. I’m from NY and Penn State is a great option for kids here who can afford the $15K OOS differential. Our state schools are not as traditionally set up as the Big 10, and other schools that have great football programs and don’t have the reputation or recognition. And for many of us, it’s just as close to go there and even a lot closer than some of our instate options. Happy Valley is just a lot more attractive to most people than UBuffalo. </p>

<p>But this does cast a pall on that option. As I’ve said, my youngest had Penn State on his list. No more. Just doesn’t give him a good feeling any more. And with kids that’s what it often comes down to: the feeling they get when they think about a school. My college kid was accepted at Penn State and it was definitely on the table as a possibility and he is glad he did not go there. He has a cousin who going there who is not as happy about the prospect due to this, and he has two friends transferring out for sure, and several more considering it. I don’t think this will hurt applications, but I believe that those students who make the final decision to go there will go down, and those with other choices will be more likely to take them this year. </p>

<p>The students I know who are going back or starting there, are very unhappy and, yes, the do take the criticism personally. For them, it is all about them, and what was going to be a great, happy adventure now has a major scandal, pall over it. There is no denying it. Whether it’s their “fault” is not the issue. Of course it isn’t the fault of a bunch of high school kids who happened to pick this school this year. But it does take away for the joy and anticipation, every last one of them and their parents have said so. Schools often have things that put dampers on the mood. My son’s college had some major problems that did the same, but nothing like this sordid, ugly mess that threatens to truly compromise the way the university is run in areas that had notning to do with what happened. Money is likely to be tighter and attention is diverted by these issues.</p>

<p>Just as an aside, one of the things that the Freeh report featured, was the lack of backbone and participation on the part of the Board of Trustees. That they are now even further neutered by this scandal is a problem. They should all resign or be “fired”. Clearly they have very little power there. Yes, the NCAA decision should have been presented to them. They were just run over again.</p>

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<p>Lasma - I am relieved. I know many scoffed at my concerns (and others also shared them), but the NCAA took that into consideration and I am glad. However, while not the DP, the sanctions are very significant, and they will seriously impact Penn State football for many many years. So, in that sense, those wanting the DP kinda got their wish - just rather than a swift death, it’s more like death by 1000 cuts.</p>

<p>I do wish the NCAA had not put a ban on bowl games. I would have preferred bowl games to be played and all proceeds from them donated to child abuse foundations and centers, such as the one set up at Penn State’s Children’s Hospital.</p>

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<p>Cpt, call me a cynic (oh heck, I’ve been called worse), but I think some kids wanted the BigTimeFootball experience, and came up with some way to sell PSU to their parents. Now they won’t push so hard. They may so, OK, football at PSU won’t be any different than say SUNY Buffalo. Maybe I should make a decision based on other factors.</p>

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<p>I am surprised that there is no concern that Penn State will be fielding a football team of young men who are not going to be matched in calibre as compared to those on the teams it will be playing. They won’t have a shortage of those who will be eager to have that chance, but IMO that is throwing additional risks to those young people who are vulnerable. </p>

<p>I personally do not think the NCAA penalties were what they should have been. And yes, I think that the President of the University should have run them by the BOT. What he did was exactly what the Freeh report said was a problem in terms of the Board not being kept as fully informed as it should be. Nice start, Ericson, in fixing that aspect of Penn State decision making.</p>

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<p>What kind of “risks” do you mean, other than the risk of not winning the game? I went to a school that for years had a much poorer football team than its opponents - i mean MUCH worse, perennially outmatched -but no one complained that the players were at any “risk” other than embarrassment at not winning.</p>

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<p>When my first child was applying to colleges, my husband and I told her that unless she gets into Harvard (which we knew would never happen :)), her choices were limited to the New York state universities. Our oldest son was one year behind her, with our last child pulling up the rear 4 years behind them. We couldn’t afford 2 OOS colleges at the same time. (I’m sure you all understand – what you do for one, you have to do for all.) </p>

<p>Anyway, my daughter really wanted to go to Penn State. She wasn’t at all interested in football. What she liked was the “IT” factor that Penn State had. Was the football program the cause of that “IT” factor? Maybe, to some degree. But in any case, Penn State had a definite appeal to the high school crowd. I think that may be gone now.</p>

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<p>Pizza, I don’t claim to know much about football, but I would worry there is more risk of physical injury with mismatched teams. That’s why we segregate many physical sports by age (or size, in boxing) and gender.</p>

<p>ETA – I hear what you are saying, that your experience was different. Always glad to hear when no one gets hurt – but I still dont know enough in general to say what the general effect would be.</p>

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<p>WAIT, pizzagirl! My Big Ten school liked to play YOUR Big Ten school for homecoming because we MIGHT have a chance to win. My years there we were duking it out with you for last place!</p>

<p>There shouldn’t be a concern about a severe mis-match to the point where it would be unsafe. That just isn’t going to be the case. No, the team will not be particularly competitive in it’s conference, but they are still going to have some good players and big, strong kids. Schools always play the “buy” games where a much lower level team comes to play, essentially, for target practice. This is the case in football and basketball. If there was a safety concern, these games wouldn’t be played.</p>

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<p>I DO think a lot of students pick Penn State for the “typical college experience” which, frankly, includes football games. Penn State is the best pick of the state universities in the middle Atlantic and New England, which is why it does attract out of state students.</p>

<p>I’ll admit that I was excited to get to college and experience the football weekends. It turned out to be fun, but not all that thrilling with a terrible team. However, my school became a basketball powerhouse and my addiction was swift and lifelong! It has been a source of joy, despair and has helped me form business relationships and friendships. My name is MOWC and I am a college basketball-aholic. I get it.</p>

7450

<p>There are some very thought provoking blog posts starting to surface. We are prohibited from posting links but one that I found interesting from a student perspective was called We Are, They Aren’t by Matt Gallardo on Penn State Forever. I think if I had a kiddo heading there this fall, I would not be concerned. It sounds like the kids have good heads on their shoulders.</p>

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<p>I have said this before. My youngest D had PSU at the top of her list. All of us were enthusiastic about her going there after we experienced our tour of the place. It had a Disney World appeal that made it hard to resist. That feeling of stepping into another world. She eventually decided on another school and I can’t describe how relieved I am that she didn’t end up at PSU. i know it is a good school in many important ways and it isn’t necessarily defined by this scandal but I would have been having a terrible time writing those tuition checks in the wake of this debacle.</p>

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<p>"From faculty member John McDonnell’s defense of Penn State:</p>

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<p>The academic integrity of Penn State is, in my judgment, severely compromised. According to PSU folks, the entire university - and every department within it - benefited financially from the football program. Not a single faculty member ever objected (or ever thought to.) After the activities of the Professor Emeritus were revealed, even after he was found guilty, not a single faculty member called for his resignation. Not a single faculty member, all of whom benefited financially from the football team, made a single comment about JoePa or about Spanier, who continues to be a professor in the so-called college of health and human development. Not a single faculty member seems to have publicly objected to the fact that all Penn State students are endangered by virtue of the University never filing required reports under the Clery Act. No faculty members seem to object to having to do their research in a library named after a conspirator in child sex trafficking, which continues to inflict wounds upon the victims and their families daily.</p>

<p>Other colleges and universities have had scandals. In all the ones that I am aware of, there were always faculty that spoke out. They saw themselves as protectors of the university’s integrity, especially when the trustees seemed to undermine it. What is there about the culture of Penn State that is different?</p>

<p>Here, we finally have a faculty member speaking out. I congratulate him for it. He knows where his bread is buttered.</p>

<p>It’s sad for the kids. This is what they are learning from their academic role models. “We are Penn State” is already back. </p>

<p>Where are the adults?</p>

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<p><<…Penn State had a definite appeal to the high school crowd. I think that may be gone now. >></p>

<p>I think a lot of that will depend on how the students respond this fall (and what the media chooses to report). The Blue Out game is a good opportunity to cheer on the team, show their support for the victims, and emphasize their commitment to making Penn State a better place.</p>

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<p>This is absolutely right. First of all, I think Penn State could be competitive in the Big Ten this year. It’s too early to know how many players they’ll lose off the current roster, but most or all of the seniors–the core of the team–are insistent that they’re coming back. They may lose some underclassmen who will be taking a longer-term view as to what’s best for them. And with the bowl ban and scholarship limits, they won’t be able to recruit as many of the very top prospects. They’ll still get some, because there are lots of very good athletes in Pennsylvania and elsewhere who have always dreamed of playing for Penn State, and may even see the somewhat thinner competition for those slots as an opportunity. But they just won’t have as many of the very top recruits as they’re accustomed to, and not as many as the top football programs in the conference and in the country. </p>

<p>Still, after a couple of years of sanctions, a “decimated” Penn State might still be able to field a football team as good as, say, Minnesota or Indiana, which are playing without extra scholarship restrictions and bowl bans, but just not recruiting the top athletes because the top athletes want to play for a winner.</p>

<p>They’re never going to have a shortage of big, strong kids who can stand up to the physical punishment of FBS football. Not being competitive just means their defensive backs and wide receivers might be a step slower, their quarterback a tad less accurate, their offensive linemen not quite as quick or as strong as the best in the conference. But they’re not going to be sending skinny, underweight, unathletic kids out there to be pulverized by players three times their size. Nobody’s going to be physically at risk, beyond the usual risks associated with football, which are considerable. But there’s no reason to think those physical risks will increase. They will risk the humiliation of losing. Welcome to the club.</p>

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<p>I read the Gallardo blog post, and was unimpressed. He doesn’t seem to get it.</p>

<p>He says that the NCAA sanctions hurt athletes who were uninvolved in the scandal and who wanted to be part of “success with honor.” Dude. The NCAA sanctions may make success harder, but the honor part was already gone, smashed into a million pieces by a horrible predator aided and abetted by coaches and administrators who were willing to sacrifice honor to preserve their reputation. When someone allows an underling to continue to rape little boys, honor is absent.</p>

<p>Penn State athletics talked about honor, but now we know they had none. The NCAA is not to blame for that.</p>

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<p>There are posters appearing in town with the “Rise” logo of the Lion — the desired tagline being “rise to the challenge”. Like kayf, I believe a great many students who “loved” Penn State previously were really after the huge football experience, but they can’t hardly tell that to mom and dad, now can they? And mom and dad don’t really want to see it was about the football buzz, so now we hear a lot of “they changed their mind after the scandal”. Regardless of the motivations, UP has had waaaaay too many freshmen for the past 7-8 years, and a drop in the next class is really a good thing for everyone, long term. I never have understood why anyone would come here OOS unless it’s for IST or Engineering or Business – one of the super-strong areas. The cost for OOS is just too high.</p>

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<p>MOWC is correct. Friend’s H who is DI head FB coach of a small state school, usually has 2 (non-conference) money-games in the schedule. There is a benefit for both teams. The big, nat’l ranked team gets a for sure win and gets a chance to test some of their younger inexperienced players. The small school team (my H calls the fodder team) gets a chance to be on nat’l television and the university gets a share of the TV revenue. Last year it was around $900K/game this year it will be closer to $1.1 mil.</p>

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<p>I really think the “success with honor” thing is part of the problem. The AD, Football Coach, Univ President and who knows who else had no honor. None. They protected evil. While it is true Sandusky committed the abuse, those men let evil roam on the campus, use the football program as a lure, supported the charity that (unknowingly) created a victim pool. There is no honor, and not nearly enough shame.</p>

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<p>On the current Penn State students. I agree that they obviously did not create this mess, but I was very disappointed when they rioted over the firing of Paterno. I don’t approve of rioting, but if they felt they just had to riot I would have respected them a lot more if they had rioted to protest child abuse or to protest the criminal cover-up by their school’s leaders.</p>

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<p>Okay, that’s a reasonable interpretation. But there was nothing in the NCAA sanctions about academic integrity, so accepting the sanctions does nothing to diminish Penn State’s standing in that. Any loss of academic integrity from this mess was something Penn State inflicted on itself, not something the NCAA imposed.</p>

<p>And on the first point, Erikson probably should run it by the board, but to what end? The NCAA had a gun to the university’s head. There was nothing the board of could do or say that would change that. Would the board have opted for the death penalty instead? I don’t think so. So what McDonnell is left complaining about is Erikson not following a procedural nicety. Kind of a petty complaint under the circumstances.</p>

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<p>A majority of Big Ten football coaches say they are not actively recruiting Penn State football players to transfer. Coaches at 4 schools–Michigan, Northwestern, Wisconsin, and Ohio State–said they had no interest in getting Penn State players to transfer. Coaches at 3 schools–Iowa, Illinois, and Purdue–said they were talking to Penn State players, and Illinois actually sent a delegation of coaches to State College to meet current players. The rest said they would not initiate contact, but would talk to any Penn State players who contacted them.</p>

<p>[Gophers</a> football won’t recruit Penn State players - unless they call first - TwinCities.com](<a href=“Gophers football won’t recruit Penn State players – unless they call first – Twin Cities”>Gophers football won’t recruit Penn State players – unless they call first – Twin Cities)</p>

<p>Big Ten Commissioner Jim Delaney had argued against relaxing the conference’s usual transfer rules so as not to create bad blood between Big Ten schools, but he was unanimously overruled by the university presidents who argued Penn State athletes should have every opportunity to transfer.</p>

<p>[Big</a> Ten coaches split about recruiting Penn State’s kids | StarTribune.com](<a href=“http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/163957556.html]Big”>http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/163957556.html)</p>