Penn State Sandusky scandal

Parent Cafe
7621

<p>@goingmyway : in fairness, the football players, as individual students, really are treated much the same as others. They don’t get registration privelages (like Schreyer’s scholars), they don’t get paid jobs for charity work (like some THON officers) they can’t have jobs in their fields (Collegian, WPSU, lab assistants) and their classroom attendance is HIGHLY scrutinized as are their schedules. I’m not saying it doesn’t have cachet, but so does Schreyer’s, and so do the grad students, and so do the Writing Center students, and so do the Rhodes’ Scholars… It’s not like the football players attract a crowd as they walk to class. (Although the volleyball players do!)</p>

<p>Grccx, I don’t know what Seahorse said (on my ignore list) but I do think if the perception of prospective students/parents/outside world is that PSU has an unhealthy interest and fixation with football, you won’t persuade them otherwise by having everyone get up at 6am to meet the team for a training session. Not the end of the world, but a little counter-productive, imho. I find myself agreeing with Pizzagirl – why is there a value in staying or going?</p>

7622

<p>I addressed the students once in this past post. i will not repeat myself. See Post #7468 if you care</p>

<p>The NCAA handed down their punishment. </p>

<p>It included playing college football as a big10 team and also included televised games.</p>

<p>Which means:</p>

<p>football fans may attend
football fans may cheer for their team
football fans can be happy
football fans can watch their team on TV
football fans can wear team sports clothing
the band can play and the dancers can dance and the cheeerleaders can cheer</p>

<p>These are college kids. They are optimistic, passionate, forward moving individuals who will accept the punishment and then move forward and make the best of it.</p>

<p>Some posts sound like those parents who keep increasing their punishments because their kids do not appear miserable enough. Good grief.</p>

<p>I always have difficulty with the arguments made by comparing totally different situations. </p>

<p>Example: You shouldn’t be sad that your bike broke. There are millions of people that don’t even have a bike. Some have limitations and can’t ride bikes. It just makes no sense to compare these.</p>

7623

<p>If I were a PSU football player, and I could, I’d leave Dodge as soon as I could. My program is tainted, my degree is tainted (sadly), they expect me to study in the JoePa library, and every time my degree comes up, people will be asking me about this mess. To stay is wrongheaded, and indicative of poor judgment. (just my opinion)</p>

<p>Why don’t they have a “cheer day” for the department of health and human development where Spanier is still professor, or a “library cheer day” at the JoePa Library?</p>

<p>The NCAA gave out its punishment for purposes of maintaining its own image, and its members’ revenue. There is no reason why PSU couldn’t instead decide to do what’s right to rebuild the university.</p>

7624

<p>I took the reference to treating football players equally as coming from a post about doing things to cheer up the football team. The concern there is that would be continuing to elevate the importance of football. As has been pointed out, everyone at PSU is being hurt a bit by this mess. The students certainly could find ways to cheer each other up without singling out the football players. That was my interpretation.</p>

7625

<p>I do not get the idea that anyone’s “degree is tainted.”</p>

7626

<p>I agree with sax. You know, there are a lot of CC threads where I see references to other big-time college football teams - how can I get tickets? I’m so psyched to go to the games! And of course, the ubiquitous Roll Tide! :wink: </p>

<p>PSU students going to a football game are no better or worse than the students at these other colleges going to, and being excited about, their football team. There is no particularly evil culture in State College that bred this situation. Sorry, but it could have happened at any number of big-time programs. It happened at PSU, and yes, there are reforms that absolutely need to be made so that it never happens again. But – just like at other schools – the students can cheer for their football team and have fun going to games. There’s nothing wrong with that. And the way people insinuate that the students don’t care about child rape or that the degree or whole university is tainted, I don’t blame the students for “circling the wagons” and banding together. They know their university is not the football factory others make it to be.</p>

7627

<p>I feel bad for the students. I dont think that their degree is tainted, I dont think that the decreased football fame in itself will spoil their college days, and I dont think (and really hope not) that this will lower the academic standards or many academic opportunities for the students. </p>

<p>However, I do think that this incident will change the atmosphere, or the “feel” of PSU for students. We always hear that “feel” an important part of finding a good college match. I do think that this issue will permeate throughout the school and affect all of the students on some level. I do think that this will be part of the PSU experience the students will have to deal with during their college days and beyond. </p>

<p>Will the students be “fine”? I would think so. But as a parent, I would be sad to send my kid off to a school where I know that the next 4 years are not likely to be the whole experience that my child (or I) expected it to be. </p>

<p>College should not be all about football, no doubt. But for most students, it is not all about academics either. When a student picks a school like PSU, they pick the whole package. If they did not want the football and the “rah rah” as some describe it, they would choose another school. Students that want an academic only environment without the football infused into it are likely to choose that type of school. And there are plenty of them out there. </p>

<p>Most students will find another way to obtain that college experience at PSU and be perfectly happy. Some will be unhappy and change schools. Others will remain at PSU because they do not have many options and be “less than satisfied” with their experience, but not really worse for the wear</p>

<p>So yes, I feel bad for the students. They did not cause this, but they will have a different experience at PSU because of Sandusky et. al. . And yes it is life. But just because sh** happens, does not mean that I cant feel a level of remorse for the students that will experience a loss.</p>

7628

<p>"I do not get the idea that anyone’s “degree is tainted.” </p>

<p>When the President of the University, the person responsible for the university’s academic integrity, is forced to step down for lack of integrity, when the surrogate President of the University enabled a serial child molester and may be guilty of multiple counts of child sex trafficking and the new President of the University defends having a library named for him because of his “academic” (Hmm.) contributions to the campus, when (according to PSU) every department in the university received funds from the football team and etc. and not a single faculty member every objected, when the serial child molester receives an academic title as Professor Emeritus and walks to academic convocations where students receive academic degrees, and when the University trustees today seems more concerned with maintaining its football schedule than in the academic character of the institution, darn right the degrees are tainted. And I think that’s a real shame, ‘cause it isn’t the students’ fault.</p>

7629

<p>Mini, I guess that we need to define “tainted”. </p>

<p>To me, a tainted degree would be one that has lost value, and may make employers reconsider hiring soley because of of the sandusky problems at PSU. </p>

<p>I don’t think that will be the case with PSU. I do think that for the near, and possibly distant future, every time a student states they graduated from PSU, they will be questioned about the Sandusky thing. And some employers may ask questions about it to establish the kind of person that they are hiring - is the interviewee bitter and making excuses, or one that made the best of a bad situation. </p>

<p>But I can’t really see a loss in “value” of a degree from PSU. </p>

<p>How do you define tainted?</p>

7630

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<p>Yes. Exactly. If you want to portray PSU as more well-rounded - yeah, attending football games is fun, but so are (insert innumerable other pastimes) - you don’t do it by focusing on the importance of uplifting the football players as if they are special.</p>

7631

<p>I’ll feel sorry for any innocent Penn State students who actually suffer from all this. But I do not consider not being able to have Penn State play in a bowl game for four years to be suffering. I do not consider having some of joy taken out of the annual football hoopla to be suffering. I do not consider seeing their school’s leaders being charged and convicted of terrible crimes to be suffering (for the students). I do not consider having to look at a blank spot where Paterno’s statue stood to be suffering. I do not consider a football player having to choose between staying at Penn State or transferring to USC to be suffering.</p>

<p>As far as I can tell, the classrooms and dorms will open on time this fall. The professors will show up and teach their courses. The dining halls will still serve three meal every day. Let me know when actual student suffering starts so that I can start feeling sorry.</p>

7632

<p>I think many of the comments are not about having a football team, or going to those games. The “cheer up the team by providing breakfast for training” seems to be the issue. Is the town going to “cheer up/provide breakfast” for every sports team? Debate/Mock Trial/theatre? </p>

<p>I agree with Pizzagirl. The idea is that football becomes another EC at PSU…that it is not some huge, unique program. This “cheer up” free breakfast thing is off focus.</p>

7633

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<p>It is clear, however, that some PSU people do consider those things to be suffering - because football is so important that the loss of the “full football experience” is, indeed, a real loss.</p>

<p>If anything, not knowing the finances of the whole thing, I should think that “suffering” would be if academic programs would have to suffer due to financial cutbacks (e.g., not getting new lab equipment, or whatever).</p>

7634

<p>I feel a little sorry for people with little problems, and very sorry for people with big problems. I submit that my approach is one others should consider adopting.</p>

7635

<p>We live in an area with lots of Penn State grads and we know a couple current students. My observation is that people seem to want to defend their school, so what people here are alluding to is that defense. Five years ago, if someone around here mentioned Penn State, the reference was about football or the college search process. Today if someone mentions Penn State, this scandal is the first thing people think. Whether it is right or wrong ( thinking scandal first) does not matter; it IS what people think first. Current students and future students are going to have to deal with it for a long time. Some will embrace the challenge and some will make different choices.</p>

7636

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<p>Believing that football players deserve a little rah-rah only makes sense if you believe that football players need to be somehow celebrated, called out of the crowd, given special strokes (beyond their scholarships). If a school in “normal” circumstances wants to do a little rah-rah for its football players, hey, more power to them. But don’t you see that you can’t say “we at Penn State are really changing the culture so that football isn’t as dominant as it’s been in the past, which led to this mess” at the same time you give special strokes to the football players just for the mere fact of their existence?</p>

7637

<p>I just had the opportunity to do the equivalent of a “man on the street” interview on this topic. i called a friend in the Phila area to wish him happy birthday. He is 70, blue collar worker and a big sports fan- not a college grad. I asked him what he thought about the Penn State situation. He said he was furious about the consequences. He agreed with the fines, but thought the other penalties were unfair to the current players and students and that poor Joe Paterno wasn’t around to defend himself. He didn’t see how it was the football program’s fault that Sandusky did this since he was no longer on staff.</p>

<p>I didn’t bother debating this- it wasn’t the purpose of my call- but I thought it was interesting that he saw it this way.</p>

7638

<p>^^True blue, MOWC.</p>

7639

<p>[Scout.com:</a> Fans Rise & Rally Behind Lions](<a href=“http://pennstate.scout.com/2/1206940.html]Scout.com:”>http://pennstate.scout.com/2/1206940.html)</p>

<p>Oh boy Really… autographs?</p>

<p>"When the workout was complete, the players summoned the fans onto the field for one huge group cheer. Before long, chants of, “We Are … Penn State!” went up.</p>

<p>As the big huddle broke, players signed autographs and posed for photos.</p>

<p>“It shows you what Penn State’s all about,” Zordich said. “It’s not just in the locker room. It’s through the whole campus and all through the state. It’s awesome. I can’t thank these (fans) enough.”</p>

7640

<p>Penn State did not invent big time college football.</p>

<p>College football is a money maker. Advertisers and television and the media have created the revenue stream. The game got bigger and the stands got bgger and more people came.</p>

<p>Penn State, Michigan, Michagn State, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Ohio State, Texas A&M, Longhorns, Florida Gators, USC etc etc etc. All big time college Football and big time money makers.</p>

<p>The difference is that Penn State had the same coach for 50 years plus. If you have the same coach every year for decades people will know this guy because of the media coverage of football. Because he was there for so long Paterno became the face of PSU football because of constant media coverage hyping him up. The university went along for the ride becasue it was great press for them. He became the face of the university because of the populaarity of college football and because he was there SO long.</p>

<p>The problem arises when any company/organization allows one person to stay for so long in a top position. Thats why we have term limits on so many political offices. That person starts to be able to take short cuts and push people around because of their importance to the system.</p>

<p>So PSU wasn’t an out of control football culture…it was a JOE PATERNHO CULTURE. Big difference. </p>

<p>If you want to eliminate big football you are going to have to do it across the entire university system. You will have to not allow big college football to be the NFL farm system any longer.</p>

<p>This is the United States where football makes people into millionaires and celebrities.
Penn State did not create this. </p>

<p>Sandusky, Paterno, Spanier, Curley, Schwartz, McQueary, the janitor, the board of trustees. These are your bad guys. Not college football. Not the football at Penn State.</p>

<p>Leave any guy in a top job for this long and there will be problems. That’s what Penn State did wrong.</p>