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<p>You’re really upset because they are excited about being Penn State? Sure, Penn State seems to express itself through football, through its other sports (volleyball anyone???), but it expresses itself through its academics as well. You guys sure must get upset when chants of “USA! USA! USA!” ring out around the country too, huh?</p>
<p>Fans supporting their favorite college teams is nothing new, and certainly nothing unique to Penn State.</p>
<p>[Alabama</a> football Fan Day Set for Aug. 5 | TuscaloosaNews.com](<a href=“http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20120723/NEWS/120729926]Alabama”>NH AG 1990 Salem murder solved, suspect is dead)</p>
<p>[Fan</a> Day Slated for Sunday, August 14, at Michigan Stadium - MGOBLUE.COM - University of Michigan Official Athletic Site](<a href=“http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/072211aaa.html]Fan”>http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/072211aaa.html)</p>
<p>[Fan</a> Day Set for Aug. 11 on LSU Campus - LSUsports.net - The Official Web Site of LSU Tigers Athletics](<a href=“http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=27815&SPID=2164&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=205533116&DB_OEM_ID=5200]Fan”>http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=27815&SPID=2164&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=205533116&DB_OEM_ID=5200)</p>
<p>[Fan</a> Day Set for Aug. 3 - Huskers.com - Nebraska Athletics Official Web Site](<a href=“http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=205500134]Fan”>http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=205500134)</p>
<p>[SoonerSports.com</a> - Official Athletics Site of the Oklahoma Sooners - Athletics](<a href=“http://www.soonersports.com/ot/meet_the_sooners.html]SoonerSports.com”>http://www.soonersports.com/ot/meet_the_sooners.html)</p>
<p>[Duke</a> Football Fan Day Set for August 21 - Duke University Blue Devils | Official Athletics Site - GoDuke.com](<a href=“http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=204973279]Duke”>Duke Football Fan Day Set for August 21 - Duke University)</p>
<p>And, also not limited to football.</p>
<p>[Baseball</a> Fan Appreciation Day and Alumni Game set for January 28 - TexasSports.com - Official website of University of Texas Athletics - Texas Longhorns](<a href=“http://www.texassports.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/011712aaa.html]Baseball”>http://www.texassports.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/011712aaa.html)</p>
<p>I, too, agree that the tenure of Paterno and the lack of “controls” created an environment that allowed this entire situation to happen. I was the chief ethics/compliance officer for a major corporation (a very ethical one). In every case where we did have an ethical breach, it was because our controls were lacking in some way. We would correct the situation. In the case of Penn State, Paterno was adored, trusted and had longevity. There were insufficient controls on him and the football program.</p>
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<p>So Alabama wasn’t an out of control football culture…it was a Bear Bryant culture. And now it is a Nick Saban culture, which looks very much like a Bear Bryant culture. </p>
<p>I am reminded of Dana Carvey playing George H.W. Bush on SNL during the run-up to the first Gulf War.
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<p>I am missing your point coase</p>
<p>Nick Saban 5 years </p>
<p>Bear Bryant 24 years</p>
<p>Joe Paterno 62 years</p>
<p>Sandusky wasn’t quote on staff unquote. But he was all over that campus. With a nice title. Good enough for me.</p>
<p>He had keys, access, an office, guess anyone can have the at psu. Good to know.</p>
<p>Paterno was Penn state football. Penn stte football was the cover for a molester and football staff knew it.</p>
<p>The fact that Paterno was at PSU for a long time is not the problem. The problem is that no one at PSU would stand up to him. </p>
<p>The President, AD, BOT all just let Paterno walk all over them. At least some of those people KNEW Sandusky was a child abuser. And they still didn’t call the police. All it would have taken was a phone call. That is a separate issue from Paterno being there for 62 years. </p>
<p>Really, why couldn’t this whole mess been solved with a “Sandusky is evil, we will stand up to him, turn him in” stance. That would have been the honorable thing to do. And I will never understand why anyone would think it was not the honorable thing to do, and that the best thing for the school/football program/Paterno legacy was to cover up the mess. I don’t see any financial advantage in not turning him in…only huge costs in a cover up…</p>
<p>And endless, needless heartache for the children who suffered because no one called the police</p>
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Well, the key argument against Penn State has been that we had a unique culture unlike any other in college football*. Since no one seems able to define exactly what this uniqueness was (other than Paterno’s control, which is decidedly and irrevocably finished), I am not sure what the problem is with acting like an ordinary football program with, you know… fans.</p>
<p>*: I mean, until now we had no sanctions and superb academics, but that was all just cover for how football-focused and win-at-any-costs we were, right?</p>
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I wonder about that. After all, somebody did tell the police in 1998, and nothing happened. It occurs to me that it won’t be all that easy to prove that a report in 2001 would have prevented Sandusky’s later depredations. That doesn’t affect the morality of not reporting, of course, but it may affect civil claims.</p>
<p>Well, yes PSU has/had a unique culture–apparently football was critical. Look at the response to bowl sanctions has been…way out of proportion. The Football Coach and Univ President ran around telling everyone they had a squeaky clean program–so untrue. </p>
<p>In reality, children were being abused, football players were beating up people, the football coach was creating the rules for the players (separate from university standards), football players were going to graduation in bullet proof vests. And the child abuser had keys to the facility, special status, and a lump sum retirement boost.</p>
<p>I believe, and sincerely hope, this is a unique culture in college sports.</p>
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<p>And if the first phone call didn’t produce results and Sandusky was still around, there should have been as many follow up calls until it was known that action was being taken. I taught my daughter at a very young age that if there was something wrong, you tell a grown up. If they don’t listen and the problem still exists, tell another. Rinse and repeat.</p>
<p>I have no knowledge of the legalities involved, but I would hope that a second report (surely there would be records from 1998), including an eye witness would have been taken seriously by the police/CPS. Maybe it would have been a lot of phone calls–police, CPS, lawyers to get him off the campus, Second Mile…but I really think working the phones to protect children is a reasonable trade off.</p>
<p>Separate from police/CPS interventions, I don’t understand why in 2001 no one at PSU took the keys to the locker room, changed the locks. If Sandusky had a contractual right to an office, move it to another building. Stop inviting him to the sidelines/special boxes at bowl games. No reason to have him involved in recruiting. If there were legal issues involved and an explaination was needed, Sandusky retired and is focusing on charity work. </p>
<p>If Joe Paterno had so much influence that his passing has set the stage for a completely new football culture at PSU, he had the influence to get rid of Sandusky. You can’t have it both ways.</p>
<p>Mom2M</p>
<p>That would have moved Sandusky’s sexual abuse off campus, but wouldn’t have stopped it. i think school officials had the moral, if not legal, responsibility to call in child protective services, the police, someone to investigate and protect the children. The Catholic church took the same approach of just getting the abusing priests off their “campus”. The abuse is still there, just moved down the road.</p>
<p><< I’ll feel sorry for any innocent Penn State students who actually suffer from all this. But I do not consider not being able to have Penn State play in a bowl game for four years to be suffering. I do not consider having some of joy taken out of the annual football hoopla to be suffering. I do not consider seeing their school’s leaders being charged and convicted of terrible crimes to be suffering (for the students). I do not consider having to look at a blank spot where Paterno’s statue stood to be suffering. I do not consider a football player having to choose between staying at Penn State or transferring to USC to be suffering.>></p>
<p>I spoke about this on another thread - and I realize I am probably wasting my time here when so many won’t open their minds to understand what others might be feeling. I can only speak for my son - and some of his friends I’ve spoken with. I’m not sure whether “suffer” is a fair word to use or not - but you have to believe that my son has been affected. This has been such a difficult time for many of the students. It doesn’t have to do with no bowl games, it doesn’t have to do with joy taken out of football hoopla. And it’s actually really condescending to my son and many other students if you truly believe that’s all my son is about. It has to do with losing something important (and I’m not talking football - I’m talking about pride in what he’s accomplished. He was proud to be where he was because he worked so hard academically to get there) and working to come to terms with it. And, my son - and others - feel bullied. They are being scrutinized, blamed, teased, having others make generalizations about their thoughts and feelings, etc. Remember, these “kids” are young - 18-21. They are still working to figure out this world. They are frustrated that others are generalizing and assuming (all about football, yadda yadda, students don’t care about anything else). My son worked his butt off to earn a full academic scholarship. He chose Penn St. because it’s engineering program, internship oppotunites, etc. He’s thrived there - he loves Thon, has joined multiple clubs, attends most sporting events (yes, not just football - ALL of the sports). He also misses many games because academics come first. My son, and most others there are well-rounded individuals - they aren’t football robots that don’t care about anything else. My son is at Penn St. for the engineering culture, the philonthropic culture, the clubs culture - and for many other reasons. You don’t think it’s hurtful when these kids read over and over again that they’re not capable of anything else other than rooting for a football team and being part of a cult?</p>
<p>When I would meet people before and they asked where my son went to school, I’d tell them Penn St. they would never say “wow, Penn St. what a football school”. No, what they’d say is, “Wow, that’s great. What is he studying?”. etc. Now, when I get asked, well, I’m sure you can imagine the responses I get. So - put yourself in these kids shoes - and how they feel with those responses. Yes, this isn’t the worst that can happen to them, and yes they’ll get passed it - but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think it hurts them and isn’t difficult.</p>
<p>Looking at the blank spot where a statue used to stand, or missing a bowl game isn’t the issue. Feeling like so many are against them (rightly so) no matter what you do, feeling bullied, made fun of, criticized and scrutinized - yes, that’s the hard part. My son, and others, are just trying to move on. They want to still go to football games, (and yes, they had a rally. So? My younger son’s high school has one before every home game - as do high school, colleges and pro teams around the United States), they want to just move forward. That doesn’t mean they haven’t learned - it doesn’t mean they’ve forgotten what happened. If anything - it’s been an amazing lesson for them in so many ways. These students are working hard to make a difference and make sure this never happens again. Just let them move on and be like any other college student across the United States. Just let them be college kids again.</p>
<p>bethievt Please note that the first comment in my post is to call the police/CPS, etc. I understand that just moving the location of the abuse is not enough. My post was partially in response to the “all colleges have a football culture”. No, only PSU had a football culture so important that police were not called, that the university did not act to limit access to the buildings, etc. Perhaps if police/CPS/Second Mile were called, and Sandusky could no longer use PSU as a lure fewer children would have suffered. Denying access was part of the solution, not the whole solution.</p>
<p>ljrfrm I do think your son, and the other students should just be college students again.<br>
The football players should also just be college students. If the whole town isn’t going to come out to “cheer up” every other competive entity on campus, and actually every student, they don’t need to draw attention to the football program. The football program needs to just be another part of the school. </p>
<p>Sincerely, I wish your son, and the other students every success.</p>
<p>The initial (last fall) hostile reactions of too many PSU students really hurt the cause for what may or may not be the silent majority of them. But that’s how the world works. It will take a few years of better news to offset all the bad news in this.</p>
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<p>Turning him in does indeed seem like the only honorable thing to do. But I think these relationships were actually extremely complicated. I’m not ready to buy mini’s suggestion that this was one big sex trafficking ring, but I do think “follow the money” is sage advice. Paterno got enormous mileage from the squeaky-clean image his football program enjoyed, and he didn’t want to do anything to taint it. But he may have also thought he needed Second Mile. Sandusky recruited a lot of high-powered and well-connected business leaders to the Second Mile board. They not only contributed heavily to Second Mile, but many developed personal and eventually business relationships with Paterno, who invested large sums in some of their companies and in real estate developments that he co-owned with them, including a luxury retirement community, built on Penn State-owned land overlooking Beaver Stadium, in which Paterno and some Second Mile board members were co-investors. (That project eventually went belly-up). This article profiles some of those business relationships:</p>
<p>[Penn</a> State Nittany Lions – Joe Paterno did business with leaders of The Second Mile, according to report - ESPN](<a href=“http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7320780/penn-state-nittany-lions-joe-paterno-did-business-leaders-second-mile-according-report]Penn”>Penn State Nittany Lions -- Joe Paterno did business with leaders of The Second Mile, according to report - ESPN)</p>
<p>Paterno was also a big wheel in Republican politics in Pennsylvania, supporting candidates with campaign contributions, holding rallies on their behalf, making campaign appearances with them. Sandusky and his Second Mile board were also big political players; there’s a blog out there (can’t post a link per CC terms of service but you can Google it) that claims Second Mile board members and their families, businesses, and employees donated over $600K to Tom Corbett’s successful gubernatorial campaign in 2010. So Paterno and the people Sandusky recruited for the Second Mile board were pretty clearly on the same page politically. (To be fair, Paterno himself donated $250 to Barack Obama’s presidential campaign in 2008, but it was during the primary; maybe he just didn’t like Hillary, or thought Obama would be the weaker Democratic candidate. Apart from that, he was a lifelong Republican, especially close to George H.W. Bush and Gerald Ford, and active in Republican politics at the state and local level. Republican leaders even briefly considered running him for Lieutenant Governor at one point, which pretty clearly would have been a demotion).</p>
<p>So I think in a way the Second Mile foundation should be seen as the charitable arm of Penn State football, and Sandusky was Paterno’s alter ego. Remember, it was founded by Sandusky while he was still on staff at Penn State, acting as Paterno’s #2 and heir apparent. (In fact, Sandusky founded Second Mile in 1977, the same year he was elevated from linebacker coach to defensive coordinator). The foundation gave Paterno access to business leaders from around the state, and that opened up business opportunities for him, and it also expanded his political sphere of influence. And it all kind of makes sense, in a way. State College is a very small town in the middle of nowhere. No doubt some big movers and shakers show up for football Saturdays, but the head coach isn’t going to have time to schmooze those people on game days. That’s going to happen mostly in the off-season. But you need a vehicle to make those relationships happen, and Second Mile looked like the ideal vehicle. Who could turn down an invitation to sit on the board of a charitable foundation that serves disadvantaged youth, especially if it gives you entree to the legendary Coach Paterno and his players and ex-players who regularly turn up at Second Mile banquets, fundraisers, and golf outings? And if that leads to further business opportunities all around, and makes everyone a bigger hitter politically by virtue of being connected to that network, well that’s just gravy. </p>
<p>Turning in Sandusky would not only sunder the squeaky-clean image of JoePa’s football program, it would jeopardize Second Mile itself. And Second Mile, on this view, was almost as important a part of JoePa’s empire as Penn State football itself.</p>
<p>Turning in Sandusky in 2001 would also have looked especially bad if it ever came to light that JoePa (and perhaps some of the others) had known about Sandusky’s pedophilia back in 1998, when Sandusky was eased out of direct employment by Penn State and given a golden parachute; yet not only was he allowed to stay on (with a wink and a nod?) but actually “increased his commitment” to “working with troubled youth” through Second Mile. Or possibly that JoePa knew about Sandusky’s pedophilia, or at least heard rumors about it, much earlier, in the 1980s or even in the 1970s. State College was and is a very small town. Things get whispered. People with big ears hear them. And JoePa had very big ears.</p>
<p>So turning in Sandusky in 2001 would have been the right thing to do, the moral thing to do, the compassionate and humane thing to do. But I don’t think it would have been the easiest thing to do. I think probably in the end Paterno, Spanier, Curley & co. may have decided that a cover-up was the safest and least risky course. And Paterno might have thought he had enough political influence to make a cover-up stick; maybe he had even done it before. The DA dropping the 1998 case certainly raises suspicions. And Corbett’s foot-dragging on the investigation in anticipation of his 2010 gubernatorial election (while accepting $600K+ from Second Mile bard members and their families, businesses, and employees) sure smells of confirmation.</p>
<p>Sorry, Mom2M! I didn’t read your post closely enough and only focused on the 2nd part. Guess I’m tired.</p>
<p>ljrfrm–I’m really sorry about what your son and thousands of other deserving students are going through because of the actions and inactions of a few people.</p>
<p>ljrfrm - I’m sorry. College kids, 18-21yo, are being bullied, teased, and made fun of? By who? This is a legitimate question.</p>
<p>When my kids looked at schools, I never said anything bad or disparaging about any school to a student. Though i don’t call them kids. They are adults. </p>
<p>However, Penn state students, whether football fans or not, benefitted from the program, and it’s reputation. Penn state played up it’s football program. Made lots of money from it. Had a national reputation which included football. There are many amazing schools who didn’t allow sports to trump academics with regard to reputation. That is penn states fault. </p>
<p>Seems while that reputation was perfect students didn’t mind but now the truth is oozing up, they don’t want to deal with any fallout.</p>
<p>I wonder who their friends are who are bullying them. As for the media, Penn state, it’s students, alum, development department, athletic department, et al, didn’t try and make football less important, they played it up. And that very culture thatnput Penn state on the national map of football is what is bringing it back to earth. The leaders of Penn state failed.</p>
<p>The current students should be mad at them, not the media who are shining a light on psu.</p>