Penn State Sandusky scandal

Parent Cafe
7761

<p>Penn State will be fine. The students should enjoy their studies, parties, and games. They are Penn State. Not sure the same can be said of many other universities with major (or even minor) Division I programs.</p>

<p>The culture at Penn State, the insularity and worship athletics, will likely never return; PSU’s sensitivities will remain heightened for decades. Penn State will heal. </p>

<p>The better question is whether the NCAA, conference commissioners, and university presidents care about the scores of other universities cooking the same ingredients that went into the Penn State soup.</p>

<p>The underlying problem is the disproportionate power and influence ceded to athletic programs over faculty, admissions, campus security, and nearly every other aspect of university life. And it not a Penn State problem. </p>

<p>Does anyone in power care? Probably not.</p>

7762

<p>This article refers to that topic:</p>

<p>[On</a> Silas Redd, The Penn State/USC Decision, & Loyalty - Land-Grant Holy Land](<a href=“On Silas Redd, The Penn State/USC Decision, & Loyalty - Land-Grant Holy Land”>On Silas Redd, The Penn State/USC Decision, & Loyalty - Land-Grant Holy Land)</p>

<p>It sums up, a little harshly at times?, the whole thing that bothers me about college sports in America. How did the business of sports get so tied up with education? Just doesn’t seem right.</p>

7763

<p>" lje I don’t know who you are “talking to’ but there are over 7,000 posts and quite a few arrows and darts since the beginning . It generally calms down after a few posts.”</p>

<p>Thanks momofthree
I have also been following this thread since it began ( on and off ) obviously some posters are more sensitive than others , perhaps because they are alum , have children who are current students or even because of personal , relevant experiences</p>

<p>I don’t have a problem with people respectfully disagreeing , but when it comes down personal insults if you don’t share a belief then that crosses the line in my opinion…seems more like the stuff of the high school threads</p>

7764

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<p>It’s certainly unfortunate, but I doubt it’s an exaggeration. In fact it’s not even surprising. You may recall that the board members got a bunch death threats from Penn State fans after they fired Paterno: </p>

<p>[Penn</a> State trustees get hate mail, threats after Paterno firing - Philly.com](<a href=“Inquirer.com: Philadelphia local news, sports, jobs, cars, homes”>Inquirer.com: Philadelphia local news, sports, jobs, cars, homes)</p>

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<p>It doesn’t have to return because it never left. In fact I bet it will be even worse - an even fiercer worship of Penn State football to show everyone that they can’t be pushed around by NCAA or anyone else. </p>

<p>The insularity will likewise intensify - an even greater attitude of “We are Penn State. We are different. We are special and nobody outside of Penn State can possibly understand how different and special and wonderful we are.”</p>

7765

<p>Maybe this sports in college thing started with the “sane mind in sound body” concept and at some schools just crept out of control. If some is good, more is better and then came the money and power. Division III athletics seem like a healthy outlet without being nuts.</p>

7766

<p>I thought the article linked in post #7762 was for the most part fair and accurate, albeit written in an exaggerated style I don’t find appealing. Here’s the one part I disagree with:</p>

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<p>I don’t think the writer understands that at top college football programs like Penn State and USC, a very high percentage of the players DO get a shot at the NFL. We’ve all seen the statistics that say only a fraction of a percent (or whatever it is) of NCAA Division 1 football players end up playing in the NFL. And that’s true, but it doesn’t account for the fact that NFL-caliber talent is not spread evenly; it’s heavily concentrated at the top, in a handful of top programs. I’d guess the percentage of Penn State scholarship football players who end up signing with an NFL team and drawing an NFL paycheck for at least some period of time is closer to 50%. </p>

<p>There are currently 42 former Penn State players signed with NFL teams. Considering the average NFL career is around 3.5 years, that would be around 12 per year. And indeed, in 2012, 4 Penn State players were drafted, and another 7 signed with NFL teams as free agents. In normal times (i.e., without sanctions), each FBS-level NCAA school is allowed a total of 85 football scholarship, which should mean on average about 21 football players should be finishing up each year. In 2011-12, Penn State had 17 players in their final year of eligibility. Of those, 15 were starters or saw significant playing time at Penn State in the 2011-12 season, and of those, 11 ended up signing with NFL teams either through the draft or as free agents. Those are pretty good odds.</p>

<p>Of course, not all those who sign with NFL teams will stick. Some will be released in training camp, some will be assigned to the practice squad. Of those who are released, some will sign with other teams, others will drift off. Others will make the opening day roster but mostly serve as back-ups and perhaps special teams players, hanging around for a few years before they’re let go. Others will eventually work their way into more playing time or even become starters. Of those, some will become productive players for a long time; others will have their careers shortened by injury. They won’t all become millionaires, by any means.</p>

<p>It’s a brutal business, both physically and in terms of employment prospects, and there are no guarantees. But for a player like Silas Redd who has probably spent his whole life dreaming of getting a shot at the NFL, playing football at a top program like Penn State or USC actually does open up a strong likelihood of eventually at least getting that shot, as long as you avoid injuries—and of course, if you demonstrate both the physical attributes and the skills that are in demand at the next level, but that’s why you were recruited to play college football at this level in the first place.</p>

7767

<p>Why not just have programs for athletes at college with no classes? For those NFL bound anyway. Why bother with pretending it’s an education they are recruited for. </p>

<p>Like create teams not connected with college but who play college teams, seems kind of the ideal situation for NFL scouts.</p>

<p>It’s interesting that not feeling sorry for Penn state students makes one a target.</p>

7768

<p><< It doesn’t have to return because it never left. In fact I bet it will be even worse - an even fiercer worship of Penn State football to show everyone that they can’t be pushed around by NCAA or anyone else.>>
So what. The idea is that history doesn’t repeat itself. Not that students or fans can’t cheer. Big deal if they cheer,and root for a football team. It won’t hurt anyone by cheering or even by chanting. And as for them being louder and “fiercer”, my bet is it’s less towards the NCAA and more towards people trying to dictate how they’re allowed to behave.</p>

7769

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<p>I think she was talking to me. I’m supposed to “suffer fools” and play nicely with all others. </p>

<p>As for Post 7767 by seahorses- It is an ongoing debate about how the “professionalism” of college athletics should be handled. The fact is, many student athletes DO value their degrees and, even at the top athletic programs, are STUDENT athletes. In basketball there are the “one and dones” at University of Kentucky and elsewhere (but UK manages to field entire teams of one and dones…), but generally the goal is to have as level of a playing field (pun intended) as possible without having whole teams of “pros”.</p>

7770

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<p>I agree with MomofWildChild; a lot of student-athletes really do value the opportunity to earn a college degree. This is a big selling point at recruiting time. Players, their parents, and their HS coaches know there’s no sure path to the NFL, even for the most promising recruits out of HS. There are injuries, and college football careers that just don’t pan out. And even those who get to the NFL generally don’t last very long. So these kids know that sooner or later they’re going to need the skills to hold a job doing something other than playing football, and a college degree is an important credential. Some don’t cut if academically, and some end up transferring to another school and another football program if they find themselves too far down the depth chart (which is one reason those graduation rates may be very misleading, because they essentially count transfers out the same as drop-outs or non-completions). But many really want to earn the degree. And some even come back to finish the degree after they’re turned pro, if they haven’t finished by the time they lose eligibility or enter the drat early. </p>

<p>Beyond that, I’m not exactly sure what the suggestion is. Do you mean the NFL could have a minor league system, like major league baseball has? The NFL doesn’t want that; too expensive. There wouldn’t be enough places that could generate enough fan support if the team wasn’t affiliated with a college. If the Gainesville Gators played the Tallahassee Seminoles, no one would care. Even in bigger markets. The Austin Longhorns against the Los Angeles Trojans? You might get a couple thousand curious onlookers, but not enough paying customers to pay the bills. And the NFL scouts already get to see plenty by scouting college games, which all takes place on someone else’s nickel.</p>

<p>As for the colleges, they’d hate it, too. Even apart from the football revenue they use to prop up non-revenue sports, intercollegiate sports give the schools visibility and give alums something to cheer about, as well as a way to stay connected with the school. It’s hard to put a dollar value on those things, but the schools think they matter a lot.</p>

7771

<p>"The insularity will likewise intensify - an even greater attitude of “We are Penn State. We are different. We are special and nobody outside of Penn State can possibly understand how different and special and wonderful we are.” </p>

<p>coureur – Interesting opinion…Penn State is an enormous school in a densely populated state (near the cities that is…but not in State College in Centre County.) I wonder how many people that you actually know that are Penn State alumni. Your generalization of Penn Staters honestly doesn’t describe anyone I know and I know many Penn State alumni within my family, my friends and co-workers. Of course I know many people who are not affiliated with Penn State and we all seem to live and work quite harmoniously and generally go about our lives without even discussing our colleges except in passing conversations.</p>

7772

<p>“I’m supposed to “suffer fools” and play nicely with all others.”</p>

<p>MWC – You were confused by Seahorse’s post “George mitchell has been given the tax by the NCAA as a compliance officer for five yeArs to at Penn state being given full access.”</p>

<p>When Seahorse suggested you follow the news, you responded with: “Reading the news is helpful. Your writing and spelling- not so much.”</p>

<p>Nice spin, but Seahorse is not the fool!</p>

7773

<p>I also agree with b and momofwildchild (wildchild mine is a college graduate of over a year isn’t wild anymore is yours?). I actually personally know a couple UofM ex-football players who went there BECAUSE it was UofM and because they wanted to play football and another good friend with a son who also played Big 10 football. There is a culture of athletes at these prestigious big U programs who value the degree as much as they value the football field. For the others, until we have a method to gracefully enter these players into the pro sports, similar to the baseball and hockey farm clubs they don’t have many choices to get the exposure and the playing time to prepare for pro-sports. For those, this IS their career shot. And as I said 1,000 posts ago is really no different from the kid who sets his cap on HYP so that he/she can get to Wall Street… although I took a spanking for that one. But to “dis” the big college football programs is to not understand how the system works…right or wrong. To change one aspect - Div I football - requires fine tuning on the other end.</p>

<p>I also have a friend (a CEO) that is a Penn State alum and weekend football fan who is saddened not only by the abuse and the administrative neglect, but saddened by the fact that people are having a hard time separating the few from the many. I "get’ why he feels that way. The university will be strengthened by this as any business in crisis generally becomes stronger as time goes on and they rectify the errors that put the organization in crisis, but sometimes it’s good to step back from the heat of the moment and let things sift out.</p>

7774

<p>Seahorse may or may not be a fool (don’t know him, can’t say), but his editing skills - as evidenced by that post - leave a lot to be desired. MWC was not the only one confused by his post. There were several of us.</p>

7775

<p>Well now that we understand the post regarding George Mitchell and his assignment at Penn state, do think it will make any difference?</p>

<p>And I was being sarcastic when I made the suggestion of a semi college team as some posters were talking about the small possibility of going pro as a draw for players to go to big schools.</p>

<p>I am not a fool. I am just not understanding the whole football and college love affair some people have.</p>

<p>Maybe I give the Penn state students more credit then some that they will be fine and don’t need pity.</p>

<p>As for my editing skills, guess I shouldn’t type will running on the treadmill.</p>

7776

<p>Ohiomom- If that sentence made sense to you, I bow in deference!</p>

7777

<p>It was not that difficult to decipher.</p>

7778

<p>I don’t think the addition of George Mitchell will make a huge difference. If, in fact, Penn State ran a clean recruiting program and complied with the NCAA regulations as far as the players go then not much would need to be changed. Now as far as the athletic office and facilities management, I suspect he’ll implement some changes.</p>

7779

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<p>Kind of equivalent to chewing with your mouth open, or talking while you’re eating.</p>

<p>But you must be extraordinarily fit.</p>

7780

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<p>No worries, Seahorse.</p>