<p>So guess we have a whole lotta kids at war.</p>
<p>If you asked those so called 18 year olds in college if they should be considered kids, they would say no.</p>
<p>Nothing horrid happened to these freshman directly.</p>
<p>Kids are the children assaulted by Sandusky. And those that abetted him.</p>
<p>I want the students, staff, etc to public stop defending paterno, to tell is family to go away, to not keep we are Penn state chanting. That chant had honor when it was first used, now it’s a rallying cry for a cover up.</p>
<p>I think such a “renunciation” would add nothing constructive to the discussion and might be seen as prejudicial to the judicial processes against Curley, Schultz, and potentially Spanier. Personally, I think what these men (and Paterno) did was despicable, but that’s my personal opinion, based essentially on media accounts of what transpired. There’s been no definitive adjudication of facts, except as to Sandusky’s guilt on a number of charges that probably represent just the tip of the iceberg of what he did. The Freeh report was pretty damning, but that’s not definitive; it’s the product of a commissioned independent investigation, but the investigators could have made errors, or overlooked evidence, or failed to interview some persons with relevant information. That’s why we don’t just take the police department’s or the DA;s word for it before sending someone to prison; more process is required before we can determine whether we think the investigator’s account of the facts is complete and accurate. As for Curley and Schultz, they face perjury charges and continue to profess their innocence; like any other criminal defendants, they are entitled to a formal presumption of innocence, a fair trial, and the opportunity to confront witnesses and challenge evidence and to present evidence of their own, none of which have they yet had an opportunity to do. Until the legal process plays out and we get definitive findings of fact (which is to say, what we officially believe happened, which may or may not be what *actually *happened), official (or semi-official) denunciations of individuals and their alleged actions are at best premature, and possibly counterproductive because they might contribute to an atmosphere in which it becomes impossible to get a fair trial.</p>
<p>As for yourself, feel free to denounce all you like; you’re not in a position of authority with respect to this matter, so it doesn’t matter so much,</p>
<p>I also don’t see the point. Obviously there have been plenty of statements renouncing the acts in conversations on campus and among members of the community but, for some reason, ESPN and CNN have chosen not to cover that. The Paterno worshippers and misbehaving students do make for a much more interesting story, though the are a small percentage of the PSU community.</p>
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<p>I just don’t see the majority of the faculty and staff basking or feeling glorious because of the football team. They really don’t care. As Inthebiz stated–</p>
<p>I’m not sure if so many on this thread could be considered “objective”. It seems that each time something new happens, people can’t wait to come on here and gloat. Whether it be new information with the investigation, another football player leaving, some seem very pleased each time PSU takes another hit.</p>
<p>As for the students, faculty and others making statements - I think many have. Media and others chose to ignore many, if not most positive statements. Instead focusing on the few. Yes, I know…the few tend to outweigh the many…but still - most people on here are educated, intelligent people. I still can’t seem to understand why people keep insisting on generalizing and rationalizing.</p>
<p>I don’t think you need to worry about PSU moving on by December. It’s clear that America will do anything in their power to stop that from happening. I know after the first football game, and that first “We are…” chant, people will be thrilled to come on here and talk about the “arragance and bravado” etc. etc. They can’t win - and you all won’t let them.</p>
<p>My son is happily packing for school right now. He misses his friends, he misses his classes and he misses his activities. He is going to do his best to move on and enjoy his last two years at college. That doesn’t make him an arrogant or evil person. But, since it seems like you and others don’t think the students have spoken up enough, I’d be happy to have my son write you and others a public letter of apology for basking in the glory of the football team. My son was interviewd by CBS at the candlelight vigil and eloquently stated his sadness towards the vicitms and anger towards what happened, he also has worked to raise money for victims, signed petitions, attended rally, etc. I wonder how many other students have “spoken up” and not been heard.</p>
<p>I think you are focusing on the few rather than the many as well. “America” largely doesn’t care one way or another how PSU fares in football or in any other sense, much less is “America” doing “anything in their power” to harm PSU or stop them from moving on with their lives. The average Joe has too many of his own concerns to focus on.</p>
<p><< I think you are focusing on the few rather than the many as well. “America” largely doesn’t care one way or another how PSU fares in football or in any other sense, much less is “America” doing “anything in their power” to harm PSU or stop them from moving on with their lives. The average Joe has too many of his own concerns to focus on. >></p>
<p>I hope that’s the case - as it should be. To me, it doesn’t seem that “America largely doesn’t care” - but maybe I’m wrong (hope I am). I agree that the average Joe should have more concerns to focus on…doesn’t always seem to be the case though unfortunately. As many have posted on here…sometimes the few are louder than the many!</p>
<p>Perhaps you have a point about some being pleased about PSU taking “another hit.” But, I am also afraid that you might miss the point raised by whomever happened to think the penalties fell amazingly short. </p>
<p>And this dovetails in “America” not letting PSU forget by December, as some of us believe that PSU should not have been allowed to forget by December, or anytime soon. And, in this regard, the only penalty that seemed warranted, and perhaps just, was to make PSU remember EXACTLY what some of their leaders tried to protect for more a decade. King Football on Saturdays! </p>
<p>All the discussion about contrition and bravado would have been moot with a lengthy death penalty imposed on the football team. The remembrance would and should have been felt with the ominous presence of an empty football stadium, and this while the rest of America returned to its preoccupations and concerns, including watching and supporting their own teams. America can forget; PSU should not! </p>
<p>America does not need to worry about PSU’s football team anymore that it did during the reign of Paterno. But PSU should not have been given that luxury by the spineless NCAA. And perhaps PSU cannot win (as you say) but that is the entire point … of a penalty phase. </p>
<p>And, fwiw, the penalties should have been so drastic that PSU would have been happier with the death penalty. The self-preservation of the NCAA and the negotiations skills of PSU ensured that the program will only encounter a small bump on the road.</p>
<p>When I say PSU can’t win, I am not talking about football. I don’t give a you know what about football. Honestly - I love a good football game as much as another. But, I"m not a PSU football fan and that’s not my concern. My concern is my son’s college academics, and that he continue to receive the top-notch engineering academics he’s had thus far.
When I say they can’t win - I’m talking about anything that is said by a student, faculty or whoever is picked apart. Word for word…whatever actions are picked apart. That’s what it is. I’m not complaining, I’m not saying it’s right or wrong - but it is what’s happening. And again, people seem to enjoy doing it.</p>
<p>The students won’t forget - they don’t need the public to remind them continually. They don’t want to forget. There are many good kids there who want to help. Just like many college students all over the country for one reason or another, they want to make a difference. They don’t need “America” to remind them - it’s very condescending for anyone to think that they need to be reminded. Do you really think that the students there are that shallow? Really? It’s sad if you do. </p>
<p>The football penalties are what they are. Right or wrong, too heavy or too little. They are what they are. Is it really about penalties though - or isn’t it about making sure 1) this never happens again at PSU or anywhere 2) child protection in general and 3)growing and learning from a tragic situation. I truly think most if not everyone on here wants the same thing - we may have differing opiniions on how to get there. It’s too bad the energy on both sides isn’t poured into child abuse protection (rampant problem in every community - not just Penn State) as opposed to attacking or defenidng the school.</p>
<p>AND -thanks to everyone for the good wishes to my son and other PSU students as they go back to school!</p>
<p>I’ll go one further, I’ve always thought it was slightly ignorant to believe this was about football. Things like this can happen anywhere, anytime as several very eloquent posters have pointed out. I think it’s somewhat delusional to think that NCAA sanctions on the team will ‘fix’ the administrative problems. Only the current and into the future administration can fix the administrative problems. I think calling any financial or educational harm that comes to current and future students collateral damage is a kick in the teeth to those students and educators. I agree that the only good that might come of this situation is more national attention to the problem of child abuse but to use the entire Penn State community hostage over this is ridiculous. Why isn’t the NCAA taking the high road and having all teams wear a ribbon, have a moment of silence for victims of abuse, run PSAs on Big Ten TV etc. etc…it feels like no one wants to take the high road they just want punitive actions and in a rather gleeful way sometimes and that to me is a giant bump in the middle of the road that is blinding people to the very real issues and something that is better served on a national platform not in a little town in the middle of PA. I suspect the kids get it but it’s a shame that some adults in a position to do something…don’t.</p>
<p>Well, I think wearing ribbons or having a moment of silence are great gestures, and I support them.</p>
<p>But they are not going to lead to administrative change.</p>
<p>I mean, that’s kind of like saying, “Why was company XYZ fined for dumping pollutants into the river, instead of just making them write a letter saying they were very, very sorry?” Because they would write the letter and then do the same thing again.</p>
<p>I agree it’s not about football specifically, as a sport. It’s about power. But in Penn State’s culture, football WAS powerful. That is why the football team got sanctioned–because in this case love of football led to football becoming too powerful, which led to the cover-up and enabling of Sandusky’s child abuse. So the NCAA is attempting to depower the football team to disable the pervasive football culture. Seems reasonable to me. Although at this point I think giving the death penalty would’ve been the better option.</p>
<p>sadly, the administration and the faculty clearly feel they can’t make a statement about this because of the civil suits piling in, and the continued criminal investigation. I still hope some of the faculty with character find a way to lead the students, to ask about lessons learned, to examine what leadership is.</p>
<p>Alicea will be one of the certified employee assistance professionals with Health Advocate leading sessions for Penn State employees Aug. 15 and 16 to offer them techniques for coping with recent events stemming from the Jerry Sandusky scandal.</p>
<p>Employees can go to one of the sessions, “Healing and Moving Forward,” which will start with information about coping and tips for working through challenging times.</p>
<p>I hope the goal is to help the professors learn how to provide support to students. </p>
<p>ljrfr–I would be proud of my son for taking a stand as yours did when asked. good for him, maybe he can be one of the students to inspire the professors to to talk about this.</p>