<p>[UNIVERSITY</a> PARK: Penn State Faculty Senate studying trustees’ structure, relationship with university | News | CentreDaily.com](<a href=“http://www.centredaily.com/2012/08/26/3311279/faculty-senate-studies-trustees.html#storylink=misearch]UNIVERSITY”>http://www.centredaily.com/2012/08/26/3311279/faculty-senate-studies-trustees.html#storylink=misearch)</p>
<p>Forget PSU. I always made it a rule never to contribute to my alma mater in a year they had a winning football season. Since they won almost every year, I saved a lot of money! ;)</p>
<p>(Let’s be clear: I was not at all opposed to their having a football team; only pouring money into it at the expense of other activities.)</p>
<p>From mini’s link:</p>
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<p>Current charges against Curley and Schultz are perjury and failure to report iirc. The article suggests other possible charges are conspiracy, obstruction, and “child endangerment,” the felon the Pennsylvania bishop was recently convicted of.</p>
<p>Can the DA even add new charges to Curley and Schultz’s indictment at this point, since they have a January trial date? I assume it’s too late to add Spanier to the C/S case–he would have to get his own trial, right?</p>
<p>There are, of course, potentially far more serious federal charges under the Mann Act. (But I doubt a case will ever be brought.)</p>
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Not an issue at most of the big football schools (including PSU) where the revenues from the team not only make it fully self-supported but also fund other athletic teams as well.</p>
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The DA can add more charges at any time, before, during, or after the trial.</p>
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I will be supporting the team as I always have - I will watch a few games on TV and will hope that they win as many games as they can. I do not think anything that happened is the fault of the players or current staff, so why would I not? I reserve my ire for those individuals, indicted or not, whom I feel were actually responsible for those horrific crimes and who have done damage to the university.</p>
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<p>I agree with what respected sports author and Washington Post columnist John Feinstein said about this on the radio today: basically that he’ll be very interested to see how the Penn State football players and fans comport themselves this weekend and this season - He didn’t say he wants them to lose, but he is eager to see if they’ve learned anything from this tragedy. </p>
<p>He hopes that they behave respectfully and knock off all the “We Are Penn State” stuff. He hopes the football program and their fans have learned a little humility. He’s not encouraged by the fact that they have complained about the Freeh report and accepted the NCAA sanctions only very grudgingly, but he hopes they don’t come out and act like nothing ever happened and just play with the same old attitudes and obsessions. </p>
<p>As he put it, they can’t try to just put this all behind them and carry on as before, because the situation “is just not that simple.”</p>
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I am not sure what this “stuff” is supposed to be, or what that is supposed to mean. Are you expecting “We Are Sorry For What Happened And Will Not Publicly Express Any Other Emotion”?</p>
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The only real ego that I remember associated with football was our academic performance and our relatively clean record vis-a-vis crime and NCAA regulations. On the latter, I think our ego has been thoroughly (even excessively) stamped down. As to the fans, I GUARANTEE that there a campus of 40,000 students there will be at least SOME who are going to combine body paint and attitude in some manner that you and Monsieur Feinstein will find offensive, and I further guarantee that every camera will be camped in front of them.</p>
<p>Of course, we have names on our uniforms now, so you would probably consider that a bad sign as well.</p>
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Why? You think the Freeh report is perfect? We can think that something tremendously bad happened and that some big changes need to be made, without necessarily agreeing that Louis Freeh recommended the RIGHT changes or identified the REAL problems (case in point, many of the people who dropped the ball on oversight, specifically Erickson and the BoT, are still around). As to the NCAA sanctions, I don’t think anyone at PSU really cares that people think we should just bend over and take them - we disagree, and it’s our asses.</p>
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I don’t think we’re forgetting this any time soon. As to the “same old attitudes and obsessions”, you’re right - we’re going to adopt the typical div-1A standards, where sanctions, criminal behavior, <50% graduation rates are the norm. As to the rest, well, if everyone else is doing it, it must be okay, right? I mean, I am more than happy to tell the half-naked body-painted students to get dressed and sit down as soon as everyone else does the same. Unless you honestly think that those students endorse child abuse or forgot what happened?</p>
<p>[Penn</a> St pep rally opens historic football weekend - Boston.com](<a href=“http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/football/articles/2012/08/31/penn_st_pep_rally_opens_historic_football_weekend/]Penn”>http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/football/articles/2012/08/31/penn_st_pep_rally_opens_historic_football_weekend/)</p>
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<p>I think the issue here is nobody gives a darn about your story, not if you’re using the child abuse scandal as a way of getting up on your soapbox. It comes off as, “We understand the scandal, but it had nothing to do with us. Why are we being punished? We are good. No, we are better than good, come see. Come look at us.”. I think that’s what the author is referring to.</p>
<p>Greeenbutton, I read your link on the faculty “study” of college boards. This does not go even close to where I think they should be going. It is a mild-mannered study of college boards. Nothing about the faculty sentiment regarding the football culture.</p>
<p>Collective punishment is historically seen in times of war and times of instability. Personally I think it’s time to focus on the crime and forget about the football team the collective punishment has already been meted.</p>
<p>No kayf, I don’t think it represents what you are looking for, either. It was just the latest activities update 
I believe Faculty Senate will never act in the way you would be hoping for. They are a toothless bureaucracy in an ivory tower.</p>
<p>And goingmyway, I’m kinda stumped. If a community says it’s been working on its defects and building a brighter future for itself, come and visit so we can prove it to you, your reaction is that they are disingenuous and overly proud? Yeesh. Haters Cafe indeed.</p>
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<p>Good point. At the risk of triggering Godwin’s law, the example of WWII is instructive. Coming out of the ashes the Germans did not carry on with the “Sieg Heil!,” the parades, the mass rallies, and one-armed saluting stuff. They didn’t go around saying “Hey I didn’t personally invade countries or create death camps; that was done by just a few bad guys at the top of the government. Nothing to do with me. So I want to carry on with all the same nationalism, attitudes, salutes, and public rituals that I enjoyed so much before the war.” No they quietly set about building a new and different Germany, one that is now the envy of Europe and is respected around the world.</p>
<p>Now in NO WAY am I equating Penn State with Nazi Germany, but I think it’s an instructive example of how an organization can quietly and humbly go about rebuilding itself to greatness and recover from a huge setback based on wrongdoing by its leaders. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, Penn State appears to be bent on clinging to the attitudes, rituals, and trappings of its former regime, including great reverence for its former leader.</p>
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Actually, this is exactly what you are doing, and I find your attempt to make that comparison while acting like it didn’t happen to be extremely distasteful.</p>
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There are a few key differences.</p>
<p>1) A huge number of them (millions) were actively participating in the war effort, even the genocidal components that made the Nazi regime the benchmark for horror in the modern era. In the case of PSU, the number of people actively participating in any way was extremely small, probably not enough to field a regulation football team.</p>
<p>2) Of those who were not participating, the vast majority of German citizens knew what was going on - the invasion was not secret, even the general nature of the atrocities were pretty well known by the time the US entered the war. Conversely, with PSU it appears that very very few outside the conspirators had any real inkling what was going on - the whole point of the cover-up being to keep this number to a minimum.</p>
<p>So unless you really think that most of us knew about or participated in Sandusky’s crimes or the cover-up, your comparison is way off.</p>
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Implying that the only people in the wrong during the Nazi regime were the leaders - a pretty generous interpretation of history.</p>
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Well, the thing is we are trying to figure out exactly which “attitudes, rituals, and trappings” were responsible for allowing our atrocities to occur, and excising them while keeping the rest intact. The Germans had a strong tradition of engineering excellence, and they did not throw that out just because that excellence continued to occur under the Nazi regime. The Germans made the finest tanks in the world during WWII, and still make such excellent tanks that we buy the guns for our tanks from them! Likewise, at PSU we have not seen how school spirit or liking football contributed to this abomination (note: both occur at other schools!) so we are loathe to abandon them without reason. We have changed a great deal where we feel it will help, including greatly increasing our oversight of our leadership. Interestingly, the one thing that neither the Bot-commissioned and edited Freeh report nor the NCAA demanded was the removal of those individuals (like the new President and old BoT) who were responsible for making sure things like this didn’t happen - something that we as Penn Staters are broadly demanding!</p>
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<p>Also PSU appears to be loathe to let go of JoPa.</p>
<p>Pre-game coverage showed footage of several life-sized JoPa cut out’s with people getting their pictures taken, wide grins, a JoPa bobble-head where his statue had stood, again pictures being taken. If the PSU nation can’t see the poor taste in this while they happily get ready for their season opener and cheer on their team, I don’t know they see where the line is. Is this part of “building a brighter future?” </p>
<p>Pointing to other schools, saying “they do it too” holds no water here. When your organization clearly showed they could not balance athletics and the overall wellbeing of the university (let alone those of young boys), and make proper priorities you don’t get to play that card.</p>
<p>“Also PSU appears to be loathe to let go of JoPa.”</p>
<p>Would that be the same PSU that fired him last year, took down his statue and agreed to sanctions that took away over 100 of his wins?</p>
<p>Comparing Penn State to Nazi Germany is a new low.</p>
<p>I agree with your post Cosmicfish. </p>
<p>coureur the example you provided of what Germans did not say after the war;</p>
<p>“that was done by just a few bad guys at the top of the government” was a nonsensical example. as if the Nazi regime could have done what it did with just a few bad guys at the top of government.</p>
<p>The millions of Germans who supported and/or participated in the regime certainly did need to feel shame for the atrocities committed against humanity. </p>
<p>there is no comparison here and it doesn’t really fit to offer it and then say, you’re not comparing it to PSU.</p>
<p>Frankly my concern at this point is more about seeing Spanier indicted for his participation in the concealment of crimes, and seeing Curley and Schultz held accountable for their involvement. The BOT needs to accept the penalties and move forward. Football has been sanctioned, and since they did not get the death penalty, they will play. Other than the small minority of students who protested inappropriately, they can enjoy the game, the students and players are innocent. They haven’t done anything wrong. Penn State administration failed Sandusky’s victims, failed Penn State as a university and failed the students. Personally my focus is on holding that administration accountable, legally and morally.</p>
<p>Glad to be watching Penn State football on a september afternoon on the Big Ten Network.</p>
<p>Myturnnow,
I agree. The culture has to change from the top and it will take time. I don’t think it’s fair to expect that it will change overnight from the top of the administration to the incoming freshmen. Strong leadership with an understanding of the past and an optimistic eye to the future will help. Those people still clinging to the pre-Sandusky culture of PSU will eventually evolve to.</p>
<p>As far as the football team, I hope they do well. Why would we want them to fail?</p>
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<p>Do you think those “attitudes, rituals, and trappings” include a sold-out stadium chanting “We are! Penn State!”? How about fans posing for pictures with makeshift replacements of the JoePa statue? From reports of today’s game, it’s business as usual at Beaver Stadium. Sue Paterno is even in attendance. I am hard pressed to see exactly what part of the football culture has been “excised.” Looks to me like King Football still reigns supreme.</p>
<p>Sax - wish I could watch it! Alas - we are still out of power. :(</p>