<p>In a way, we both complain about the role played by Emmert. You don’t like that he pushed a deal with the implication that a death penalty was forthcoming. I don’t like that his deal took the death penalty off the table. It does seem that we both dislike the nature of the negotiations, but for very different reasons.</p>
<p>Obviously, you seem to think that Emmert acted without consulting other voices within the NCAA. Voices that seemingly were more than whispering “Death Penalty.” </p>
<p>The NCAA extracted a pound of flesh without a fight. PSU saved itself from what they feared the most. </p>
<p>Again, the good ol’ boys network acting our of self-preservation and cynicism.</p>
<p>“Thanks for the kind words. I’d like to challenge Mini and the many other non-PSU related posters, who have such a hugh interest in Penn State, to join us in taking action against child abuse.”</p>
<p>Challenge accepted. One of the few things I do when not engaged in my international work is help support an organization called Pizza Klatsch. Pizza Klatsch provides free pizza and trained facilitators to LGBT kids and their allies at all of our area high schools. Many of these kids face abuse both in school and at home, and often feel they have no one to talk with, and are alone. Our community had several suicides (occasionally a result of horrific abuse in the home), and we are committed to not having that happen again.</p>
<p>My professional work in the alcohol and drug treatment field heavily involved trying (and succeeding) to get the Legislature to fund treatment for young families, where kids were regularly at risk for child abuse. I’m now retired, but pleased that this is part of my legacy.</p>
<p>It’s all not enough, of course, but I’ve got my shoulder to the wheel.</p>
<p>Many students do enjoy the library!! lt’s actually a very nice library used by many students and staff - and what’s inside of it does lend luster to the academic side of the university. Have you been inside of it? It’s pretty nice.</p>
<p><< Deja Vu, just one page back, post 8850. And I have the same response. Why take personally issues people have with Paterno or PSU?>></p>
<p>I think this is maybe regarding my last post? If so -</p>
<p>1) I responded after reading mini’s post without reading them all (son was taking my computer!) but wanted to respond quickly. Sorry if it was said in a similar way already- didn’t know that. I guess there is more than one person that thinks it’s a nice library.</p>
<p>2) How does my response show I’m taking it “personally”? I simply responded to Mini’s “enjoy the library” comment with a “they are” type comment. How is that comment any different than his? I’d love to know. Interesting that you feel the need respond - are you taking my response personally?? How is it when I respond it’s because I’m taking something personally - but everyone on “the other side” of the issue is somehow taking it a different way.</p>
<p>The only time I take personally issues people have with Paterno and PSU are when they make negative comments and generalizations about the students (which include my son). I admit, I have and will continue to take that personally - as I think many moms (and dads)
would do in the same situation. This is my son, who worked hard to get where he is, who isn’t a cult-driven football fanatic student, who doesn’t only care about a winning football team. </p>
<p>I will continue to try to use my experience to help others understand that what happened at Penn State is happening everywhere - on many levels. I truly believe it’s not just about punishing a university or a football team. That doesn’t mean that I’m all about taking Penn State off the hook. I think it’s about changing laws everywhere, it’s about additional funding and resources and it’s about education. My state just changed our mandating reporting laws. Volunteers are mandated reporters now (which include coaches!), the mandated reporting deadline was reduced from 72 hours to 24 hours and it clearly delineates that just reporting to your supervisor doesn’t cover you - you are responsible for making sure it gets reported to CPS. If your supervisor doesn’t do it - you have to. This is huge - as these laws were needed years ago. This is the positive type of response we need to help remedy the lack institutional reporting that is happening everywhere - not just at Penn State.</p>
<p>I find all volunteer work and contributions to important causes laudable. However, the attack on others who may not be as self-congratulatory about their own good works is oddly offensive. No matter how much good is assuredly done by individual PSU supporters, how does that have any bearing on this thread? No one here has ever implied that the community that loves Penn State doesn’t do enough good works in their personal lives. Some have suggested that the institution needs to do more to re-establish where they stand–and back up their words with actions.</p>
<p>I do not see one person posting rebukes against students–except those students who demonstrated in support of the old regime and Sandusky/Paterno. So why would one take personally negative comments like that? Unless one really can’t see what the harm was in loving a coach and team over the truth and restitution for victims. And that’s what still seems quite disturbing. While many PSU folks think we are attacking them, I read these posts as decrying the specific actions of one university’s leaders. Had this happened at another university, do you think we would feel any differently? I certainly would not, as I know almost nothing about Penn State aside from the reputation its students/alums have for reverential love of their team and school. I feel that no institution deserves unquestioned devotion. Humans can fail. And here they did.</p>
<p>I would feel the same way had this happened at any other university as well - in that we agree. Again, I would want to punish those involved - and then examine the system that failed. Realizing that the system was failing everwhere - I’d want to remedy that.</p>
<p>Not sure who you think has unquestionable devotion. Up until two years ago - I had never stepped foot on the campus (could count the times I’d been in PA on one hand), didn’t know much about Joe Paterno and never dreamed I’d have a child that would end up going to school there. I certainly do have appreciation - of a university that acknowledged my son’s academic talents with a scholarship, educated him which led to an amazing scholarship at NASA, and is providing him with professors and opportunities which will make a positive difference in his life.</p>
<p>Again, not sure if this is to me or someone else, but:</p>
<p>Maybe this isnt’ towards me - as I haven’t attacked anyone??</p>
<p>I certainly haven’t been self-congratulatory - and only use my own experience in my writings to 1) explain and back of my feelings with some sorts of fact and 2) with the hopes that I can help others understand the somewhat broken system. </p>
<p>I was trying to be helpful - and provide insight…was never tooting my own horn.</p>
<p>I apologize for the snarky comment about the library. The reality is that every time a student or faculty member walks into the library s/he is reminded of this terrible episode in PSU’s recent history, and the reality that the trustees had the guts to remove a statue but not seven infamous letters on a plaque. It is a continued reflection (perhaps unjustly) of the hold football had (has?) over the academic side of the university (and the notorious behavior that the academic leadership - as well as the athletic leadership - of the university worked very hard to conceal.) I’d be embarrassed every time I walked in or out, but obviously others will feel differently.</p>
<p>Are they better off with the name on the building, or without it?</p>
<h2>Many, many, many pages back, there was a discussion of some specific fundraising and other volunteer activities PSU students were doing to raise awareness of child abuse and abuse victims. And there were several people here questioning the “motives” of the students. </h2>
You can search my previous post highlighting a post debating the degree of Penn State Students’ suffering and/or innocence. I won’t go into the whole Pedophile State University, and other crass comments. But, with a mere cursory search on my part, when greenbutton posted about Blue Out Penn State/Stop Child Abuse (later THON) here are some of the responses:
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Your word choice self-congratulatory is interesting, madbean. Do you think self-aggrandizement is the motivation for someone posting their commendable efforts? Interestingly, I looked up minis Pizza Klatsch (Klatch) and noted that organizations laudable deeds. Certainly, I dont agree with minis assessment that my son is receiving “mixed messages” by studying in Paterno Library and that his morals/ethics will be corrupted, but I can admire his philanthropic efforts. As of September, 2012, Blue Out has raised closed to $75,000 – I can admire that effort also.</p>
<p>I thought the way the NCAA sanctions came about and were accepted were crazy, considering one of the things under high criticism in the reports about how the Board and the university made decisions bypassed the channels. So the first big decision after all of this is another special on the spot deal, not run through the Board and regular procedures. Nice. I was actually thinking that the deal would be withdrawn and a " Gotcha again, you still haven’t learned" would happen. Nope.</p>
<p>As far as what the university should have done, hopefully it is doing this behind the curtain without public scrutiny, and that is quietly looking for ways to deal with the issues, instead of reacting quickly to every single thing. Sandusky’s position should have been put in some limbo state and been apprised, the pensions and other moneys paid out and being paid, the same. As insane as it may seem, if the way certain awards are constructed such as pensions, if they are legally to be paid, they should. However, some things like the awarding of Sandusky’s title and privileges along with others involved in this case should be carefully examined to see if they were so done skirting the procedures set out for them.</p>
<p>The university should be, IMO, setting up something regarding child abuse and the examination of the laws in place which it was not in compliance and with key people not even aware of those law, all brought up to snuff and looking to see how these laws and codes can be strengthened and taken more seriously, not just at Penn State but other places. I don’t think for an instant that this is an isolated case. Just sensational due to the persons involved and the extent and longevity of this. We saw this with priests in the Catholic church, now the Boy Scouts are undergoing scrutiny and not coming up roses, and Horace Mann, a well regarded independent school apparently had these same problems. This is a time for Penn State to do some work in preventing this sort of thing in other places as well as in their own world.</p>
<p>lrjfm, no not you at all. Sorry if you took it that way.</p>
<p>pilot, thanks for going to all that work to pull up specific quotes. I can see that you are sensitive to suggestions that current students could do more to show they don’t approve of the minority of students who have demonstrated quite loudly in support of Paterno et al. The bad grace of those rioters has done a ton of PR harm, I’m afraid.</p>
<p>However, at the end of your list of outtakes, you quote someone else (I believe), yet address it towards me. I said something else:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>And, in answer to your question, I find it questionable when someone engages in admirable charity work in their personal life but then comes online and uses what should be a generous act to harshly challenge strangers here online. Perhaps I am reading it wrong, but to me the implication is clear. Any ccer who hasn’t made a personal contribution to the cause of child abuse has no right to give their opinions reviling abusers and the evil men who allow child abuse to endure for decades within their program. In this way, proclamations of one’s own generous good work seems to be a bit disingenuous.</p>
<p>The last quote is attributed to podvigs #5558. </p>
<p>Sensitive, Madbean? Current students could do more to show they dont approve of the minority?<br>
Shall I add something to the copious “How To Show Genuine Atonement” fact sheet? Sorry, kind of snarky.</p>
<p>The quotes I posted were not in response to rioters/Paterno supporters. They constitute ccers wholesale condemnation of Penn State students involved in [Blue</a> Out Penn State | Stop Child Abuse!](<a href=“http://sites.psu.edu/blueout/]Blue”>Blue Out Penn State: Prevent Child Abuse) and THON. </p>
<p>As far as ascribing motive and judging the charitable efforts of others? I won’t go there.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, I think the Blue Out and other charitable initiatives are wonderful. And are so regardless of the mixed motives. In fact, in my experience (which is pretty extensive) good things are done often by people with mixed motivations - hey, we are humans!</p>
<p>Students found themselves thrust into this cauldron, and it became a major teaching moment. If they sometimes express themselves as they try to heal, and assist others, in ways that are not quite as articulate as we might like, well, remember, we were all 18 once!</p>