Perfect - no more

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<p>No more perfection? Dreams gone? Still hope? Say what! </p>

<p>LB, you have two choices here. </p>

<ol>
<li>Learn EVERYTHING about the admission process and TRY to understand the MOST basic elements</li>
<li>Stop torturing yourself (and probably your family) based on your extremely deficient understanding of the process and a completely irrational set of expectations</li>
</ol>

<p>This board might be able to help reverse your lack of understanding, but it has and will continue to fail changing your misguided expectations.</p>

<p>I’m hoping this post is all tongue in cheek. If not . . .</p>

<p>o.k. Xiggi, chill, o.k.?</p>

<p>Why only two choices? Isn’t typically 4 choices given in standard tests? What is your curve? Do I get 35 if I pick one wrong? </p>

<p>see, I am learning something.</p>

<p>Wow…“Perfect…no more” Would it really matter in the grand scheme of life??</p>

<p>LB, while I think I understand what you’re getting at, it really is time to take a deep breath and look at the overall success your dd has achieved - perfect, or not…but by the looks of the 4.30, you have what you want.</p>

<p>Hi laserbrother</p>

<p>I think it’s good that you come here with your worries before reacting to your daughter’s grades, test scores, etc. My son’s HS only offers 6 AP courses. Junior year he took AP English and got a 5. His best friend who is the val this year got a 4. My son got a 4 in AP French and I said,“great job!”. This year he took AP Gov and AP Calc. I’m betting he’ll get a 5 in Gov and will feel LUCKY to get a 4 on Calc. His college will probably give him credit for the 4s and 5s, but, more importantly to him, he may be able to skip intro courses. As to the Calc, he’ll probably never take another Calc course the rest of his life. Celebrate these scores with your wonderful daughter. Perfection is not necessary–it’s not even that attractive!</p>

<p>PS–LB, did the scores come in the mail or did you spring for the extra $8? We get everything last here.</p>

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<p>LB, with all due respect, I probably was generous with two choices. Fwiw, I could simply ignore your posts as being way off the wall. Yet, as many others on this forum, I have tried to help. I really feel for you and I am saddened to read your posts.</p>

<p>I know that you’re getting some of your information from your neighborhood or from that silly Chinese website that extols the value of hyper-competition and social climbing through education. Your D, however, does not need THAT information, and neither do you!</p>

<p>You’re just driving yourself nuts. </p>

<p>PS While the ACT gives four choices, the SAT prefers A through E. :)</p>

<p>bethievt. It may be difficult for you to believe but one of my DD’s friends actually paid to get her scores just because they want to compare. Apparently DD is associated with a group of highly achieved students who will pay to know others’ AP score. </p>

<p>Xiggi. I thank you for your understanding. It is a difficult process and I am getting there, with kind helps from CCers such as you.</p>

<p>why the $%$$&&*%$ take these tests?</p>

<p>In our schools you cannot get the extra GPA 'bump" of .5 on your final grade if you do not take the tests. The score does not matter, it is the taking of the test. Plus what everyone else said about sending them in for college credit. My kids have used the credits to free up space for other things in their schedules and to have a few credits ahead of peers for registering for classes.</p>

<p>My kids as well as some friends scored 4’s and 5’s on many Ap exams; these same kids were known to score a 2 or 3 here and there. ALL the kids were admitted to excellent schools! </p>

<p>I know my daughter took an AP class in history so she could have the best teacher in the school; she HATES history, but wanted to take this teacher’s class and he allows anyone to take the class that wants to give it a try. She struggled all year and only received a C+ and B- in the course. I think she received a 3 on the exam and was proud she did that well. The point of telling you this is that all the colleges saw her AP scores and I would assume they just figured she wasn’t a history student as all he other AP’s were 4’s and 5’s. </p>

<p>I can’t imagine many school will think poorly of any scores in the 4’s. Send the AP scores to the colleges she applies to and relax; I bet your daughter will have many school choices.</p>

<p>Anecdote here. Don’t lose hope. Yes, I know a very good student that got a 2 on one AP test (sophomore year of high school). She was pretty disappointed, but said that her older sister got a 2 on the same test a few years earlier. Her sister went on to Cal Poly and then Yale for grad school.</p>

<p>I think students should have to take the AP exam to get AP credit added to their GPA, although I think the exams cost WAY too much!!!</p>

<p>If no one actually took the AP exams, it would be too easy for schools to put APs on their schedules without actually being held accountable for the high standards (sort of like some high schools have “honors” classes which are ridiculously easy).</p>

<p>Here’s how I viewed AP scores and LB’s question, then why even take the courses?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>A “3” is satisfactory, which means a h.s. student took a college course and managed it fine. It wasn’t a waste of time or money, but is knowledge gained.
The work was conducted at a higher level. Student is better prepared for college. Student has demonstrated time management skills. Even if it’s not reportable to elite schools, a “3” gains graduation credit at some other schools, so saves much money or makes an easier courseload sometime during the college career. Very useful senior year, when applying for post-college opportunities, for example. But, perhaps not at the colleges LB’s kids will attend, that I don’t know.</p></li>
<li><p>A “4” is B or “very good” So everything written about the “3” is still true, but even better, the h.s. person took a course at a high level and did very well…and isn’t even in college yet! It prepares her all the more to excel in courses she’ll take as a h.s. senior.</p></li>
<li><p>A “5” means A or “excellent” along the same spectrum as above.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Side Note: I encouraged my kids to report 4’s and 5’s as points-of-pride on their college applications. If they got a “3” they didn’t put it on the application, which could have even been a mistake since perhaps by putting no score down, the colleges thought it meant a 1 or 2? I don’t know; they got in where they wanted to go. I just don’t want to pass along a bad practice (not reporting 3’s) to other families now.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>If your school offers the AP’s and she doesn’t take them, she will look unmotivated. I heard AdComs at many top schools say this at presentations:
we look for students who take maximum advantage of the opportunities offered at their high schools. If a high school is less strong and offers only 2 AP’s but your child takes both, it is fine because it shows your child optimizes the learning opportunities offered.
So if your two kids go to schools where you have many AP’s offered, it is appropriate that they take them to demonstrate their high level of motivation to learn. </p></li>
<li><p>The student LEARNED. Why did it take me so long to get to this point?
For my kids, these courses kept their attention and gave them a great excitement about how much better and more interesting college classes would be compared to their other high school classes.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>p.s. hey, Xiggi, I didn’t see all your previous correspondence or any of this background with LB learning to chill, but…your post was a bit strong, too! I am as frustrated by some of the bright, materially successful parents I know who don’t push their kids a little bit to achieve, as if they’ll just hand them a job when they finish college so why bother to work hard. And unless that remark about Chinese neighborhoods is something that you, too, participate in, wow…pretty insulting!
I do love your Xiggi’s SAT method, tho, that’s a classic.</p>

<p>I feel that laserbrother is trying to learn and does learn here. He just suffers the occasional relapse due to anxiety and maybe cultural pressure.</p>

<p>What the schools DON’T say in info sessions is: you don’t have to take every single AP course your HS offers to be a strong candidate for admission. My son took 4 out of 6 offered and 3 of them were GREAT educational experiences with wonderful teachers. That is the best benefit of AP courses. He refused to take AP Bio despite that teacher’s rep as one of the best teachers anywhere. He just didn’t want to spend untold hours studying biology. He still got in everywhere he applied, I think because of an overall very strong application. I feel for the CC kids (and their parents) who think they have to take–and ace–4 years of AP courses to get into college. What a burden!</p>

<p>LB</p>

<p>I’m too cheap to pay the $8 too, but glad you got the freebie. Go out for the ice cream or whatever. Give your daughter a hug. She is doing a great job!</p>

<p>Well, it totally surprised me that DD is taking 5 AP next year. You’re officially crazy I told her. </p>

<p>On the other hand, we paid extra for a summer PE course for DS so he could free up one slot in schedule to take an AP in 10th grade. I still think 5 AP in one year is a bit too much. Part of this is from our visit to another Asian family whose sons took 11 - 14 AP. DD felt bad that she could only take 10 as a results of our moving.</p>

<p>BTW, I wasn’t crying and anything when I heard the news about two 4s. DD sounded down and I was actually saying it is o.k. because I know one of her AP teachers was teaching an AP course for the first time. She worked very hard to get that 4. As of right now, DD has taken a total of 5 AP with three 5s and 2 4s.</p>

<p>Five APs is pretty crazy, but your daughter might just pull it off. You can’t freak out though if she doesn’t get all 4s and 5s. She is obviously pushing herself more than enough. I know you love her…some things don’t translate well. Enjoy her success!</p>

<p>bethie,
I almost wish that my son’s school had offered FEWER APs. My oldest son took 4 APs (and they were tough APs), and the guidance counselor checked one of the <em>middle/average</em> boxes when it came to characterizing his “rigor of coursework” because the school offers 20 APs.</p>

<p>Never mind that about 10 of those APs are in <em>elective subjects</em>. And that several more are a waste of time and ridiculously grade inflated (younger son took two of those, that older didn’t- had a 95+ average for the final grade and scored a “3” on the AP test). Go figure.</p>

<p>I don’t agree with post #18 being a negative (necessarily) with regard to the teacher. (Having lax standards, etc.) For example, there’s a teacher in D’s school - a school which is practically psychotic about AP preparation – who simply will not teach “to” the Exam. His philosophy about teaching his courses, including his AP courses, is that he wants the subject to come alive to the students, & that is more important to him. Students know that going in, so that they will have to study outside his course (largely) to do well on the AP exam.</p>

<p>In addition, there are AP teachers at the school who teach to depth, rather than to factual memorization, yet their courses are quite challenging, & an “A” could very well mean that the syllabus does not equate with the AP exam preparation, but is as and even more challenging than the kind of mastery that the official exam requires.</p>

<p>Don’t know about OP’s D’s teachers, just providing my examples as a counter-argument.</p>

<p>epiphany,
I believe you. However, in my sons’ (plural) school, there were great AP teachers and courses (I’m thinking Bio, Physics, APUSH, Calc), and then there were not so great. I’m not talking about the arts and foreign language classes, because I know nothing about them. But I do know that my younger son, who made (final grades) a 99 in Govt and a 97 in Econ consistently came home and said the class was lame and a waste of time. For a course in Government and Macroeconomics to be a waste of time…That’s a sin!!! (Those are the AP tests he scored 3s in. He predicted that, or less)</p>

<p>Laserbrother, I don’t think 5 APs for a senior is all that far off. Mine took 6, including physics, bio, etc., and, was a two sport athlete. Scores are a different story though - happened to be the second year for the school to offer some of the courses. She did get 4’s, 5’s, but, physics, she was the ONLY student in the school to score a 3; all the other students scored lower, according to what a teacher said to me (I’m assuming this teacher knew what he was talking about). I have no idea if that is because the teacher didn’t teach to the exam, or, if the teacher simply wasn’t experienced with AP coursework - I just don’t know what happened. Calculus was a nightmare - this teacher did teach precisely to the exam, and nothing else, which, D got 4 on the exam but a B in the class, which really upset her. But, once she got to college, none of it mattered…she did just fine with college physics and calc, and, the AP scores were really quite meaningless, except that she could get credit for the 5’s and in one case one of the 4’s, and of course have another award to add to the list…</p>

<p>I think your daughter is simply awesome - she is doing so well, and you must be so very proud of her. It will be interesting to see the fun she will have with the college search and application process - I am sure she will have lots of terrific choices, and you will have lots of new, fun posts to write once the school year begins…</p>

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<p>Paying3tuitions, I understand how you may view my comments about the website and LB’s neighborhood as offensive, but was directly addressing the commenst to Laserbrother. Please realize that LB has discussed how he has been influenced by the discussions on the website and by the "competition: in his neighborhood. </p>

<p>For the record, I know that Laserbrother does mean well and wants only the best for his children. A I said, I believe that the information he has picked us so far as been detrimental to his own sanity. I find it very unfortunate that he cannot see that his daughter is performing superbly and that she will be in an enviable position this fall. Yet, it is improbable that she will be accepted everywhere and collect every scholarship that is available. </p>

<p>The pursuit of excellence is remarkable, but the pursuit of perfection is a fool’s errand.</p>