Personal Connection with Students

College Majors Musical Theater Majors
1

<p>I’ve been reading many things about other MT Schools like Elon, Hartt, etc, and this summer I was at the Carnegie Mellon Pre-College Program. One thing that I’ve noticed is that many of these smaller schools take a personal interest in the success of their students, and that teachers maintain contact with these students and help them out even after they graduate. These MT programs seem to have a more “personal” feel to them.</p>

<p>But when I read about NYU CAP21, people don’t seem to express that. I’ve heard that NYU Tisch is like a machine due to the sheer number of students and my question is whether or not CAP21 has that kind of a personal feel to it. Do teachers take a personal interest in the success of their students? Do teachers maintain contact with these students? Does the program value networking and alumni connections? Also, does the large number of students make the program seem big and impersonal? I have heard from people at NYU’s college of arts and science that the school can seem to be uncaring at times.</p>

<p>Also, most schools give 1 hour private voice lessons. I’ve heard that CAP21 only gives 30 minute voice lessons starting the 2nd semester of freshman year.
Do you learn enough in 30 minutes?
This concerns me because NYU gives me the impression that it is kind of a money-taker. Many schools give 1 hour private voice lessons starting first semester of freshmen year, and some like the Hartt School even give 3 years of private vocal coaching sessions. However, NYU’s tuition is like over the top, and with total costs over 50,000, I think that I’m just expecting a bit more.</p>

2

<p>Claydavis…
It is crucial that you talk to several current students. </p>

<p>My daughter is a senior at Tisch. She is here right now though I am in a rush. She said that the private voice lessons are 45 minutes usually and occasionally for an hour. She said that the private voice teachers CAP contracts with are amazing. </p>

<p>She has received the utmost of personal attention. For one thing, class sizes are like at most other BFA in MT programs. Her studio classes have ranged from 10-18 students. </p>

<p>My daughter has personal relationships with the studio faculty in a very close way. They know every student. There is an advisor in the studio and a Tisch advisor. My D’s advisor while in CAP was the head of CAP in fact. She knows every head person and main faculty in the two studios she has studied at…CAP21 and ETW. She has had some summer jobs through various faculty at Tisch who have hired her. </p>

<p>The amount of networking and connections, if anything, is even MORE than some other schools by the sheer fact that NYU is right in NYC and many of the faculty are current working professsionals in NYC. Even WHILE attending, my D has been in new musicals through affiliations of people she met at the school (for example, they have a Graduate program in MT Writing) and she has been paid to record CDs of new musicals and be in workshops or readings of them (she has one coming up in the city in fact…all through connections via Tisch). My D has been the paid musical director of a new work that premiered in the city for a Tony nominated director/playwright who is on the faculty at Tisch. Currently, my D is doing a workshop show with another Tony nominated director/playwright who actually has a show about to open on Broadway. He cast her at the opening of the semester and when he came to the first rehearsal two months later, he knew all ten students names. There are students at Tisch studying directing and there is a lot of networking with them to work on their projects in the city. My D has not hit the audition circuit yet as she is waiting until she graduates. Nonetheless she has performed in many capacities in NYC…often with those who are or have been on Broadway…one project has led to another. I could sit and name drop but you get the idea. All of these things she has been involved in have been through networking and connections at NYU and add in the fact that she is in NYC, she has performed in lots of venues and capacities through the various connections she has made so far at Tisch.</p>

<p>I urge you to talk to current Tischies. My experience has been either first hand or through some of my advisees that when visiting OTHER BFA in MT Programs, some students or faculty have either put down Tisch/CAP, or have given misinformation about the program, though none have attended.</p>

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<p>clay, I just read your post aloud to my D, who is just finishing her first semester at NYU/Tisch/CAP21 and she flung her hands into the air in frustration and said “Why would someone say that? It’s NOT TRUE AT ALL!”</p>

<p>She believes that her studio class teachers (the ones teaching her acting, voice, movement, vocal tech, music theory, etc. classes) know her well and take a great interest in her personally. She absolutely loves the program and is impressed not only by her teachers’ ability to teach (which is pretty darned important) but also, even more, by the teachers’ own professional credentials, experience and connections to the theater world. </p>

<p>I am constantly amazed – and puzzled! – by the negative things that people who know nothing – or next to nothing – about the program seem routinely to say about it. Whatever the reason for that, I would strongly recommend that any student interested in the drama program (including MT) at NYU talk to current and former students and their parents (not just one … a lot of them, if possible) and then go fact finding yourself. THEN make up your mind.</p>

<p>Certainly these silly rumors don’t seem to have an impact on the number of students who choose to audition for NYU drama/MT! </p>

<p>Best wishes.</p>

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<p>I forgot one important thing that is a big plus at Tisch. Because of the reputation of the school and its location, casting directors and agents come to the many productions, as well as the classes in studio. I realize they may do that at other programs but at Tisch it is very very common. I know at shows my D has been in and/or watched, industry people have attended. In studio, for example, at CAP21, in the senior showcase semester, casting directors and agents come in a lot to work with the students (that is a big part of that semester’s work). I know some kids got representation before they even did the showcase just from exposure in class. My D is currently finishing out her time at Tisch in ETW and for example, in one of her current classes on auditioning, casting directors will be coming to class later this semester to watch their “mock auditions.” I could go on with many examples of this kind of networking with the industry. </p>

<p>One more thing I forgot to touch on is that due to the size and various study options at Tisch, there is a lot of networking between the students themselves. Some are studying to be directors. There are the grad students writing new musicals and so on. Just among the students alone, my D has done a lot of networking including being in shows in the city that fellow students directed (off campus), being in paid gigs at clubs in the city with either fellow students or graduates, and more. Some of their fellow students either have made it in the industry or will at some point and they connect with one another and often new opportunities arise that way as well. Students will recommend their fellow students to those in the industry and things often happen that way. Sometimes when my D can’t take a job that comes her way, she recommends her Tisch friends to the person hiring and she has gotten her friends work. Likewise, she has a lot of friends who have graduated who are in the industry who have recommended her to others. </p>

<p>I think one thing that I am amazed to hear questioned is networking and connections at NYU/Tisch. If anything, it is one of the big plusses of the school! </p>

<p>The involvement with each teacher in studio is very close with the utmost of individualized attention. I know that in vocal performance classes at CAP21 (or similar types of classes), the teacher works one on one with students in class. Same with scenes (one on two). Teachers pick out material in an individualized manner geared to each student. My D is in a Vocal Composition class now at ETW where she has had a great deal of individualized attention on the songs she has written. The heads of her studios know her well as does every teacher she has had. Even her NON studio classes have almost all been small.</p>

<p>Not all schools are for all people. But I highly recommend that any prospective student glean as much direct information they can from many current students, graduates and faculty of a program rather than relying on heresay. Sometimes that heresay is quite false information (not even an opinion), and sometimes it comes from those at other programs (I have heard many examples of this). So, go to the source and then see what programs meet your needs and which don’t.</p>

<p>PS, clay…I know you commented about students who gave you feedback who are in Arts and Sciences at NYU. Tisch is like a small school inside of NYU. Then the studio is a smaller subset of that small school. The experience is not going to mirror that of a student in Arts and Sciences at NYU.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your responses. NYU has always been my top choice, and I just needed some direct answers but some of the things that I’ve been hearing about. :)</p>

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<p>Could you reply to Claydavisdbc’s question regarding very little freshman vocal training? Is it true that 1st semester freshman receive no voice classes and that 2nd semester freshman receive only 30 minute vocal sessions?
Thanks</p>

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<p>I already replied that private voice lessons are usually 45 minutes. </p>

<p>Private voice lessons start second semester freshman year and continue throughout the rest of college. However, in first semester of freshman year, the students are in a vocal technique class and get plenty of individual attention. I know my daughter said just in the first semester at CAP21 with her voice teacher, she improved by leaps and bounds. She has been in private voice ever since with a wonderful voice teacher through CAP21. While it may seem like a con to not have private voice in the first semester, my D did not feel that way at all because she was studying voice and learning a great deal. She was assigned songs individually to work on and did them in class and got feedback on them. She was used to working this way in fact, because her first four years of voice lessons here at home were done in small groups that did technique work together and then worked on individual songs per person. Only her last year of voice at home prior to college was taught one on one. In college she had this the first semester for technique and then private ever since. As well, there are vocal performance classes other semesters in small groups. The vocal technique class first semester at CAP had about 8 students in it. I think there are some programs (not NYU) where freshman voice lessons are with grad students. Doing a small group of 8 technique class first semester and moving to private lessons from that point forward, along with vocal classes has been just fine for my kid. She feels she has learned a great deal in voice while at Tisch.</p>

<p>Lastly, I would never describe it as “very little vocal training” for freshman at CAP21!! To the contrary, they take one semester of Vocal Technique in a group of 8, one semester of Vocal Performance in a group of 8, and a semester of private voice…all in freshman year. They sing a LOT. It is also untrue that first semester they receive “no voice classes”. They have voice classes of one type or another EVERY SEMESTER at CAP. They have private voice lessons every semester but the first one.</p>

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<p>Chiming in here again as the mom of a first semester freshman who feels she is getting great vocal training in her vocal technique class. She absolutely loves her vocal tech teacher and thinks he has helped her improve her technique a ton in just a few months. I agree with that assessment, as she sang four songs for her dad and I last night and – wow! – big improvement in her legit voice for sure. </p>

<p>I realize it’s only her first semester, but so far, my daughter couldn’t be happier and as parents, we feel the same way.</p>

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<p>NMR, does your D have Bill D. for Vocal Tech? My D had him for that class first semester of freshman year and said she improved her legit soprano so much from just that class alone.</p>

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<p>Soozievt, no, she doesn’t have Bill. But she loves the guy she has.</p>

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<p>Just wanted to jump in and “second or third” what has been said by SoozieVT, and NMR :D. My D is perfectly content, and feels that she has a really close connection with all of her teachers. Some teachers have even asked her to work with them on non-studio days to demo, or as teacher assistant (this has not worked out, because of her schedule on regular school days). </p>

<p>Re. voice lessons
Even though D did not “get” private voice lessons during her first semester per se, her Vocal Performance and Vocal Tech classes are small enough that she feels she gets a lot of personal attention. </p>

<p>Re. big & small
It is a BIG misunderstanding that all the classes at CAP are HUGE. Just because the incoming freshmen class consists of 62; the actual studio classes gets divided up into smaller classes. There are never more than 12 students total in any of my D’s classes. The program as a whole may be bigger, but the classes are actually SMALL. </p>

<p>An additional benefit people often overlook is that there is actually a benefit to having exposure to a larger faculty, not to just the one drama teacher, or the one dance instructor.</p>

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<p>I imagine the freshmen this year are broken into groups like my D’s freshman year in CAP where the Vocal Tech class and the Vocal Performance class are just 8 kids, and not the 16 as in their acting, speech, Music Theory or Dance classes. </p>

<p>MTgrlsmom brings up a point that some may wish to consider. While the class sizes in CAP are similar to many other BFA in MT Programs, one difference is that students are exposed to working with different faculty over their four years of training whereas a smaller program may have one or two vocal class teachers, one or two acting teachers, one or two dance teachers and so on. That has value as well. It is just different. Some may like that they get to learn from different teachers’ approaches. My D liked that. She got to know several people very well but also learned different things from different people. That was just within CAP but also at Tisch, you have the opportunity to explore a different studio the last one or two years and so have the option to be exposed to a lot of different teachers over time. Just a consideration. Another facet of this size program is that rather than be with the ten or fifteen same kids for four years, you have a bigger group to mix with and bond with and to find connections with. It is still like a family but there are options for bonding within the family rather than having a very small set from which to pick your friends or to spend every waking moment with.</p>

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<p>Do you feel that the training at NYU is geared towards preparing students for lead roles or more for an ensemble role?</p>

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<p>This isn’t your fault, Clay, but I have to admit that the quesitons you are asking are based on the same inaccurate heresay that I have read on CC over time or from others who hear such false information from those who attend OTHER programs about Tisch. But as much as this has been responded to before, I’ll give it a go in this round. :D</p>

<p>CAP21 or Tisch for that matter is not geared to preparing its students to play ensemble roles. It is geared to training students for the profession like ANY other program! Graduates of the program get cast as leads on Broadway, in Tours, in regional theaters, in film, off Broadway, in new works, etc., as well as in supporting roles and in ensemble. Many young actors often start their careers in ensemble in professional theater as a matter of course, but not saying this of Tisch graduates more than any other. </p>

<p>I have no idea what work my kid will get upon graduation but she was not trained as a chorus girl. In fact, she really is not the chorus girl type as she is not that tall. The work in class was to develop as an actor. The work on songs was to develop as a solo singer, not as a chorus member. </p>

<p>Off the top of my head, thinking of my D’s friends from her class (she is a senior and some left school to take roles) and her friends who are recent grads…one is currently Boq in Wicked on Broadway (was in Glory Days on Broadway and History Boys in LA), one was just Sophie in Mamma Mia on Broadway and is now going to be the Elphaba understudy on the Wicked Tour, one was Logainne on the Spelling Bee Equity National Tour and was cast in Godspell on Broadway (but it has been postponed), one is in the Hair cast coming to Broadway, a couple were in the original Broadway cast of Spring Awakening, one was in the RENT tour, one was Laurie in the Little Women tour, one was in the European West Side Story tour, one is playing Olive on the non-Equity Spelling Bee tour, one is the lead in Joe Iconis’ tour of The Plant That Ate Dirty Socks, and one was in A Catered Affair, and at the moment, those are my D’s friends that I can think of but those are clearly not everyone in her class or recent grads by any means. Some grads that are not her friends have been leads or significant roles in Les Mis, Light in the Piazza, Tarzan, RENT, Chorus Line, Beauty and the Beast, Hairspray, All Shook Up, Spamalot, Wicked, Jersey Boys, all on Broadway. While not a Tischie, another friend in her a capella group at NYU was cast freshman year last spring in Spring Awakening as a replacement and Wendla understudy and went on this past weekend in that role. Many others have had smaller roles. Also many of her friends have played parts in professional summer stock theaters.</p>

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<p>It’s funny how these questions seem to reappear periodically. I have to wonder who it is you’ve been talking to, Clay. :)</p>

<p>Whenever I see someone ask about a particular program being “geared towards preparing students for lead roles or more for an ensemble role”, I honestly wonder how a school could make that distinction in their curriculum, even if they wanted to do so. </p>

<p>Susan, speaking of Glory Days, another of the boys from that will be joining Anthony and Jed in the 'Allstar" Final Rent tour which launches in January. It’s now official, and announced, so I can confirm publicly.</p>

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<p>AlwaysAMom, </p>

<p>I also have to wonder how a program would even attempt to prepare students for ensemble roles only anyway, nor why they would want to! </p>

<p>I have heard Clay’s question before based on heresay to the affect of “they train for the chorus” or “they produce cookie cutter actors.” And so it goes. Often these comments are from those with no first hand knowledge of the school and are often stated by those attending or even teaching at other schools! :rolleyes:</p>

<p>Hey that’s great about the Allstar Final RENT tour. Jed is going on that? I thought he is in Avenue Q. Who would play Mark if Anthony is on it too? I imagine Anthony would. As far as Glory Days, my daughter’s CAP classmate and fellow a capella group member was the understudy in that short lived production, but now is cast as Boq in Wicked and she went to see him in it (he got her free comp tickets and she has seen that show before) last week and she got to go backstage and onstage. We are very happy for his success. D has not seen Jed in Avenue Q. I have always wanted to see that clever musical and would enjoy seeing Jed in it (or seeing him in RENT for that matter) after many years of seeing him in youth productions with my daughter. It feels odd to me that her peers (granted many of her friends are older than herself) are now on Broadway and the like.</p>

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<p>Oh dear, where DOES that question come from? </p>

<p>Honestly, I don’t think that any BFA program “trains you to be a chorus person”. Some programs will also handily use the term “cookie cutter” when talking about other programs, while others even will appear downright arrogant in their info sessions, “just because they can”. </p>

<p>I am really wary however of people who put other programs down in general. When you dig a little, you do tend to find that those people either did not get into the program they are talking trash about, or if they did, they did not have enough scholarships or loans to make things work and could not attend. Trust me, I have been around long enough at this point to have seen “live examples of both causes in action”.</p>

<p>Clay, seriously, the best advise anyone has given you is to talk to people who are “in the different programs”. It is really easy to find those people too nowadays with Facebook and all. Most people will be very helpful and provide you information about their program. </p>

<p>I want to to leave you with some food for thought in the hopes that you will remember that at the end of the day, it is YOU who is auditioning here. Once you receive some acceptances, don’t ignore your very own gut feeling about where you feel you belong, that feeling is not going to be the same for everybody. Some really great places made my D’s neck hair stand up, she could totally not see herself spending the next four years there. Some of those programs have incredible reputations, but they were not for her.</p>

<p>Good luck, and keep us posted!</p>

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<p>MTgrlsmom…we cross posted but both said the same thing about the “cookie cutter” remarks, LOL ! </p>

<p>Your advice is very sound. It is very critical to not only visit programs but to talk with several currents students (never just one) and current faculty and recent grads if possible too. Lots of BFA programs are truly outstanding but it really comes down to which one fits what YOU want and it doesn’t matter what others say about it if you love it and have found your match. My D learned to ignore naysayers from other programs who liked to put down other ones (never could quite grasp their motivation in doing so as my kids do not frown upon schools that others attend but simply feel they found the ones that matched them best). I only know that my kids, including my one who is a senior at Tisch, have truly loved their colleges and have felt that they found a great match for themselves. As parents, we do too and could not be more pleased with the experiences that they have had. I think my kid is gonna be VERY sad to have to graduate and leave the training at Tisch! Hard to believe she only has one more semester to go after this one.</p>

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<p>Susan, sorry to continue the OT discussion but Anthony will be Mark. Jed was in Avenue Q on Broadway to fill in for someone’s vacation, as he did with the tour. Rehearsals for the Rent tour begin next week. We’re travelling to Buffalo to see it next month.</p>

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<p>Ah, that explains it. I did not know that the Aventue Q was a short term thing. Of course Anthony will play Mark. So, my question is who will Jed play then? </p>

<p>I’m glad you’ll get to see it.</p>

<p>EDIT…oops, I just read the announcement and see Jed is in ensemble.</p>