“Even the dermatologists I know are traumatized by the amount of sun damage they treat on a daily basis.”
-Even a TV viewer on the couch is traumatized by the amount of stupidity and the boredom on TV.
The answer - do not be a dermatologist if you are “traumatized” by your work, do not be a psychiatrist if you are traumatized by the mentally ill, do not watch TV if you are traumatized by it’s stupidity, do not step out of the house if you are traumatized by the thought that you may be slip, fall, hit head and die…do not live if you are traumatized by normal life events. This has no meaning whatsoever.
Post #19: LOL - Happy with her choice of boyfriend?
Related question. Say, I live in Indiana, and I’m an Indiana resident. But, say I decide to go to college in another state (maybe Pennsylvania?-random). Am I now a Pennsylvania resident? Or am I still an Indiana resident, during those 4 years of doing undergrad in Pennsylvania? Asking bc if I do happen to go to undegrad OOS and do pre-med, I’ll most likely go to med school at the Indiana university school of medicine, and I’m just wondering if I would be considered an Indiana resident?
Also, I’ll be trying to minimize the cost of undergrad as much as possible, so the only way I’ll attend undergrad OOS is if the cost is cheaper than my state school. And this will only be the case at really selective schools w/ good financial aid (ivy-leaugue, etc) or not highly ranked schools with good merit money. So basically, I’ll go to the cheapest school.
Also, does anyone know if the really selective med schools (HYPS, etc) offer financial aid, like they’re so famous for doing at the undergrad level? I tried searching this up, but couldn’t really find a direct answer.
I’ve decided since Med school is really what I want to do (and I know this could change, but I’m not really anticipating that!), I want to do it. The only thing keeping me from running with it is the debt. I think its definitely possible to have a family life in certain MD professions, so I’m just going to set that aside. So, all that’s remaining is the issue of debt. If I could find a way to minimize the debt as much as possible, I would be set on med school in a heartbeat. Although I know this can change, I don’t think it will. If it does, then it just does! I’ll be fine! What’s meant to be is meant to be.
So to minimize debt:
-Go to cheapest undergrad
- Go to state med school? Or elite med school? Would the 2nd be cheaper with financial aide?
- At state med school, live with parents (they’d be okay with this!)
Any other ways to minimize debt?
No, if you and your parents live in Indiana and you go OOS for college to Pennsylvania, you do not become a resident for tuition purposes at PA public universities.
And in the case of CRNA school, those required years of practice (two is the most common requirement as far as I have heard) must be in critical care i.e. ICU. Nowadays it often takes several years for a new nurse to work her way into an ICU. When I graduated, ICU internships were fairly common, but I don’t think there are nearly as many nowadays. The cost of these programs is very high, so a lot of hospitals just aren’t doing them anymore.
PA’s function under a physicians license. NP’s function under their own and are usually considered LIP’s licensed independent practitioners. Their responsibility varies on the job. There are many other fields like ND’s and chiropractors that are attractive, also.
My daughter graduated high school with a goal of becoming a physician. After a year as a health science major at Northeastern, she decided that her goal was to be a PA. By the end of her 5 years ( two 6 month paid co-ops ) she decided to apply to direct entry MSN , NP program for those with a BA ? BS degree.
She is currently working as an RN while continuing her education and doing her first clinical as a NP student . As a RN student, she has amazing hands on clinicals beginning in the first semester at some of the best hospitals in Boston…she continues to do this now. She has two semesters left and it is really hard and exhausting but she loves it and has learned so much. She has no regrets in the choices she made and is really looking forward to achieving her goal ( and also being done with school ) 
My daughter is a PA and loves her job. She is in family practice right now but is being courted by a cardiologist to join his practice. Her salary would be just over100K which is much less than the doctor but she has no loans to worry about.
She did the 3+2 route which is the easiest path to take ( competition for grad spots is fierce otherwise) be aware that you will need 300-500 hours of medical contact hours to enter any grad program. They will need to be done in high school and college.
There is some merit to go to the cheapest undergrad (but the college should still be reputable enough so it will not become your “liability”. You do not want to feel that you are like a “used car salesman” when you try to sell yourself to a med school when you apply to a med school. (Some SDNer at SDN, a popular site for premeds and (to a less extent) med school students, posted how he felt during his med school application when he was from an unknown college at one time.)
The FA at the med school level is in general not as generous as that at the UG level. Do not expect an elite med school would give you a need-based FA that is as generous as the “best” FA at an elite college. (Unlike UG colleges, med schools do not need to “buy” highly qualified students, in general.)
If your family is poor and you could get into a handful of elite colleges with a very generous FA, it could be even cheaper for you to attend such an elite college.
A half of a dozen to a dozen of elite med schools have the need-based scholarship policy also (just like some elite colleges), but unlike UG’s need-based scholarship, it almost always includes some loan component (called unit loans) before their need-based scholarship starts to kick in. So attending such a private med school may be more expensive than some cheaper public med schools but it also could be cheaper than some more expensive public med schools. Not all public med schools are created equal and not all private med schools are created equal, in terms of their cost of attendance. However, in general, a private one costs more but there are (very limited) exceptions.
If you are good enough to get in and are willing to spend much more years at school, MD/PhD programs are free.
OP may want to consider: Pharm.D.s start at $100k-120k+ but there is saturation. Least amount of time to complete the Doctor of Pharmacy degree after high school is six years total.
Re OP’s questions in post #22:
You are worrying about things out of order here. You don’t really need to worry yet about which medical school and your debt load. First, you have to get through the basic science courses in college and get the best grades possible (aiming for A’s). That is the first hurdle.
You can’t worry now about attending instate med school or an Ivy League med school. At this point, you have no idea how competitive a candidate you would be, so it’s not necessary to worry about it. You go to the med school you can get into.
There are some other ways to help pay for med school. You can join the military prior to attending med school and that branch will pay your costs in exchange for service after graduation. Some jobs for new doctors have loan payments as part of the contract. There is also an income-based repayment plan for drs. that reduces the debt if you work for a nonprofit hospital or group.
You can have a family and be a dr. My daughter is in her last year of residency and many of her fellow residents have children.
What you could do now is volunteer or work in some kind of health care setting to see if you really want to do this kind of work.
I am an NP who loves my family practice job.
If you want to be a nurse, be a nurse. An NP is one of the things someone can do with nursing. Do not pursue a nursing degree because you want to be an NP. You will be miserable in your nursing courses and you will not be able to bring the caring and compassion unique to nursing, to the bedside (or clinic visits). This is why I prefer seeing an NP or PA as a patient.
NP and PA degrees are not cheap. PA and NP schools commonly cost 40-60K /year for 2 years after undergraduate work. Once they get out, they will find a market in which they get paid a fraction (1/3-1/2) of the physician salary. Plus, my experience shows loan repayment more common incentive packages for physicians, but not NPs or PAs. I would tell my kids to be MD’s if they didn’t want to be nurses.
Go into medicine if you love it. You will find what is right for you as you go along in the education process. But, it’s not something that you may be able to decide on specifically at this point of your life.
Be aware that PA school requirements are not standardized as of yet. D has everything she needs to apply but not enough patient hours as a certified CNA. She is taking a gap year but I see her being pulled in another direction as she now has a good paying full time job. One of our friends is a PA and was struggling being in a GP’s office. Guys weren’t too thrilled with a good looking girl in her 20s looking them over and she wasn’t very comfortable doing it. She switched to a OB/GYN office and loves it.
"Any other ways to minimize debt?
-I have mentioned previously, there are free Med. Schools. They may not fit you personally and the one that I am familiar with is 5 years vs regular 4, so there is an opportunity cost of about $200k (my estimate!), but there are no loans after, unless you take loans for living expenses (I do not know if it is even possible). One such school is Cleveland Clinic, it accepts 30 students. Another maybe be Mayo - but I do not know if it is still true, not familiar with this one.
Most of the students that say they want to go to medical school never end up there.
My son shadowed a few doctors at a hospital during the summer during high school. One told him not to waste his time or money with medical school. He recommended becoming a P.A. We didn’t even know what a P.A. was at that time. After some research, we were thrilled to discover some 5 year, direct entry programs. He applied to a few, but only got into one. It only required 30 hours of direct patient care, which he got volunteering at that same hospital. He ended up graduating first in his class and, based on rotations, knew he loved surgery. He did an optional one year surgical residency through Yale University and now works for a neurosurgy practice making well over 6 figures. The beauty of a P.A. license is that you can switch specialties at any time. He does have to take call one weekend and two weeknights each month and works 10-11 hour days. His girlfriend is also a P.A. and works for a gastroenterology practice. She only works 8 hours each day and is on call much less. Her salary is also lower.
Most of the 5 year programs are in Pennsylvania, but Butler Univ., in Indiana also has one.
Oh, and if I knew I wanted to go to med school and knew I had stellar high school grades and a near-perfect ACT and SAT, I would go to one of my state universities, and not the “most elite”. High GPA always trumps prestige of undergrad school when it comes to med school admissions. MCAT scores are really important, too. Find the med school section of this web site to see what is involved and how difficult it can be.
Physician here- a woman who went through things when numbers were finally increasing and the horrible discrimination by male doctors was lessening somewhat. Nursing and medicine are two very different approaches to helping sick people. They require different skillsets and interests. Think parallel, not the same only higher/lower. Likewise dentistry, pharmacy and so forth are all different from each other. Being a CRNA btw is NOT at all the same as being an anesthesiologist- you only see the tip of the iceberg in the OR.
You need to choose your college for an academic good fit as well as a financial one. You need to consider your academic strengths and interests. This summer explore the different educational requirements and job possibilities- do it online (oh the wonders of computers that weren’t there in my youth). The range includes surgery to family practice to psychiatry to kids to old people to… Your list sounds like you want to be in charge- look at what it takes in various professions. You may get a BSN degree and be an RN more quickly but you then need to “pay your dues” as a regular nurse before becoming any one of the specialists in the field. You are concerned about lifestyle. Women physicians do have time for family- it is a lot better now than decades ago given societal attitudes- especially those in the workplace. Nurses can be stressed out by being caught in the middle- not powerful enough to have the final say but knowledgeable and caring enough to be frustrated.
Do not worry about finances at this point. First consider where your heart is because you have to love what you are doing to put up with the downsides of any profession. You would not be happy if you settled for something because you were afraid of the time and costs then realized decades later you should have gone for “it” (whatever “it” is for you).
I could write forever on this topic. Time to quit. Finally- realize there is boredom in every occupation. Once you become competent scary/complicated cases become routine and mundane. Regardless of the specialty. No more/less than engineering et al.
Thank you all so much for your help!! Definitely will keep it all in mind. If anyone else wants to reply, feel free too, as there’s really no such thing as too much advice:)
"Oh, and if I knew I wanted to go to med school and knew I had stellar high school grades and a near-perfect ACT and SAT, I would go to one of my state universities, and not the “most elite”. "
- I believe that there is a difference in price between state medical schools in different states. When decision is to choose one, take a closer look. In our state the state public Medical schools cost the same in 3rd and 4th year as expensive private Med. Schools. When I added up the total cost (all 4 years), and compared the cost of state schools in our state to privates (in-state and OOS), it appeared that the difference was about $30k (in total). We simply decided at this point that the difference of $30k (which is a cost of not expensive car this days) will not justify for us to influence the decision of choosing the Med. School and much more so for somebody who attended the UG tuition free. we decided that we can live without a new car for a bit longer.
@wis75, I would love to hear more about the differences between CRNA and anesthesiologists. It’s not something I know a lot about. I work in a plastic surgery OR where they use only MDs. I also work at an endoscopy center where they only use CRNAs. But I have never worked at a hospital OR where they are doing all kinds of radical surgeries. The plastic surgery center where I work only does the elective stuff like face lifts, breast augs, etc. and there are no vents.