Physics (and other) course choices in 10th grade

Parents Forum
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<p>Looking for some wise thoughts about 10th grade coursework choices.</p>

<p>D1 will take trig/math analysis in 10th grade next year. Her school’s science sequence works “backwards”: Physics in 10th grade, Chem in 11th, Bio in 12th. 10th graders who are concurrently enrolled in or who have already completed Calculus AB are enrolled in AP Physics C, while students who are not yet in Calc are enrolled in AP Physics B. Students also have the option of enrolling in Honors Physics, taught by the same instructor as for AP Physics B.</p>

<p>The reputation for the Honors/Physics B instructor is ehhhh–supposedly not very effective, and kids who want to do well on the AP test itself generally get outside tutoring. (Oh, and before anyone makes the suggestion, taking trig/math analysis over the summer in order to take Calc in the school year will not be possible)</p>

<p>The school college counselor suggested that to keep her GPA up that D1 consider taking the Honors track rather than the AP. D1 will also be taking AP Euro, from an infamously hard instructor. However, in 11th grade, D1 will be taking 5 (OMG) AP’s, and older students have warned her that it is a very, very bad idea to go from 1 AP in 10th grade to the crucible in 11th.</p>

<p>D1 is enrolled in an outside language class, which frees up a class period at school. She therefore has the option of taking another AP class. Based on scheduling, that will probably be Music Theory, though there is a chance that Environmental Science would also be a possibility. It’s been suggested to her that it would be a better to wait until 12th grade to take Enviro and Bio together. However, there are other APs she’d rather take in 12th grade, because enrollment is limited to seniors. The Music Theory class has a good reputation, and D1’s musical background (french horn, some piano) means she won’t have to struggle at the beginning with learning to read music :slight_smile: The Enviro class also has a good reputation.</p>

<p>Got all that? :slight_smile: OK, the questions:</p>

<p>1) D1 is considering med school. I’ll stipulate to the chameleon-like nature of high school and college students when it comes to career plans. Given that, is there any benefit in her taking the AP Physics B test? In particular, do pre-med students use AP Physics credits to place out of that part of their undergrad curriculum? </p>

<p>2) Does taking the honors level course make sense? I suspect that the GPA issue means it’s better to bump up the unweighted GPA, since the weighted would remain the same given a likely B in the AP version. </p>

<p>3) Any strong feelings in the peanut gallery as to Musical Theory vs. Enviromental Science? </p>

<p>Thanks for any input.</p>

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<p>

just curious but does your school have many 10th graders who have completed or concurrently enrolled in Calculus??</p>

<p>The Physics dilemma - What did she take for science as a freshman?<br>
If she wants pre-med then somehow she must take Physics, Chem and Bio all honors - and either AP Bio or AP Chem if she can fit it in her schedule by doubling up on science.</p>

<p>AP Physics - depends on where she is planning on doing her undergrad. I don’t thing it is such a big deal. yes she will take Physics for pre-med but I think it is much more important for her to have a good Chem background and try to fit AP chem in her high school schedule.
Perhaps she can take Honors physics and chem next year and AP Chem her jr year? I don’t understand enrolling anyone in AP Physics C without first having taken Chemistry and Biology.
I also don’t understand replacing honors science classes with AP science classes. IMO AP science classes are to be taken after the honors course. ie - take your high school first then your college.
I have no way of knowing what school she is aiming for her undergrad, what type of student she is - excellent in math and science? extremely bright, highly gifted. take all of this into consideration as well.</p>

<p>Music Theory vs ES - is she a musician? accomplished? Then go for music theory. IMO - this will add to her well rounded education.
I have known accomplished musician and future music majors who needed to work very hard in AP Music theory. It is much more than reading music and can be a challenging class.</p>

<p>GPA - for college what is important is not the GPA per se but taking rigorous courses and doing well in them.</p>

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<p>Rather than focusing so much on many intense AP classes, I suggest that your child find a medicine related volunteer experience (hospital, research lab, etc.) and pursue a niche which matches her interests. Top colleges like to see many devoted hours in an area of high interest. Unless these AP classes are an easy fit, why stress your child so much at such a young age? Also, consider a community college Science or medicine related program/research program in the summer. I suggest you think about demonstrating high interest in medicine beyond taking a lot of hard AP classes.</p>

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<p>My 2 cents:</p>

<ol>
<li>Don’t take AP Physics without taking a prior physics course preferrably honors.</li>
<li>Take AP Chemistry before taking AP Biology and AP Physics B; it helps.</li>
<li>If interested in medicine take AP Physics B.</li>
<li>if interested in taking AP Physics C then take AP Calculus BC prior to your AP Physics instead of concurrent enrollement.</li>
<li>An AP to take in 10th grade would be AP Comp Science AB or A.</li>
</ol>

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<p>^^^^

  1. agreed
  2. hmmmmmm at least take Chemistry Honors - AP Chem is extremely challenging, at least at our high school. Far more kids pass AP Bio, than AP Chem.
  3. At some colleges a great AP Physics B can get you out of physics - one of those - “it depends”.
  4. Taking concurrently is difficult - my daughter did and the physics teacher had to teach them some Calc in the beginning.<br>
  5. Perhaps - no experience with Comp Science, but this makes sense.</p>

<p>Also agree with getting in volunteer hours as well - not only will this look good to colleges it will help solidify her career choice and give her direction.</p>

<p>If your HS does a senior graduation project - encourage her to do in on some area of medicine.</p>

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<p>More info:</p>

<p>Yes, the school does have many 10th graders who have completed or are concurrently enrolled in Calculus. It’s a magnet for highly gifted students, and APs are the standard course curriculum with no honors pre-req, so she will have AP Chem and Bio in 11th and 12th, both from an outstanding teacher. There is no science in the 9th grade curriculum (egads!). </p>

<p>Current college thoughts are towards UC or a program that will offer merit money so that COA is in in-state UC range. NMF is a realistic possibility, based on her past PSAT scores (hey, don’t blame me, her schools have the kids take them starting in 8th grade). </p>

<p>I agree that volunteer experience would be a Good Thing. There’s unfortunately not going to be enough room in her schedule until the summer after her junior year, unless she gives up other things. This was the big tradeoff when she decided to go to her current school.</p>

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<p>

Most medical schools will only accept AP credit for a pre req if the student does a higher level course of that subject in college. Most medical schools require physics so if she takes the AP physics test and tests out of the college course she may have to take a higher level physics class at college anyway even if not required for her major. For instance our State medical school has this posted under the pre reqs</p>

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</p>

<p>So if the med school requires calculus and she takes the calc AP she will have to take a higher level of math than calculus to use for medical school applications. The same for physics, biology, chemistry etc. This may not be an issue if she is doing a major where she will need to do those advanced classes anyway. But otherwise it is something to think about.</p>

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<p>^^^
yep that makes sense. </p>

<p>So how do you get a kid to Calculus in 9th or 10th grade and NO hard science until 10th grade - does not seem like a well rounded curriculum to me but I suppose they know what they are doing.<br>
if this is a magnet school for highly gifted - surely there are competent and trustworthy guidance counselors that can help build a schedule?</p>

<p>BTW - don’t just build it for next year. Build it for the next three years - as a plan. even if that plan changes, it’s better to have a plan.</p>

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<p>“2. hmmmmmm at least take Chemistry Honors - AP Chem is extremely challenging, at least at our high school. Far more kids pass AP Bio, than AP Chem.”</p>

<p>Not because it is easier but from the learning point of view. AP Chemistry actually will help your understanding in AP Biology and AP Physics.</p>

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<p>"Yes, the school does have many 10th graders who have completed or are concurrently enrolled in Calculus. It’s a magnet for highly gifted students, and APs are the standard course curriculum with no honors pre-req, so she will have AP Chem and Bio in 11th and 12th, both from an outstanding teacher. There is no science in the 9th grade curriculum (egads!). "</p>

<p>The sequence at D school for science and math is as follows:
9th - Hons. Physics; Hons. Pre Calc
10th - AP Chem; AP Calc BC
11th - AP Physics (B or C) or AP Biology or Both, AP Statistic (or Multivariate Calc)
12th - AP Environmental, Science Elective, Multivariate Calc or AP Statistics</p>

<p>The above sequence works fine for most top students.</p>

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<p>swimcatsmom, thanks, that’s really helpful to know. </p>

<p>JustAMomOf4, it’s an odd curriculum innit? :slight_smile: The backbone curriculum (9-12) is actually laid out for all four years; the school goes over it with prospective students. There is some flexibility wrt student interests and past curriculum. For instance, the incoming 9th graders are enrolled in math ranging from geometry to second year college calculus (that is, beyond Calc BC). For that matter, some of these kids have already had AP Physics. And many of the kids, like D1, have had a general science class in 7th and 8th grade. The GC is excellent–just wanted to get some additional wisdom since D1 has some unusual flexibility in her schedule for next year.</p>

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<p>Disagree with some of above course advice. Gifted son had scheduling problems in HS, therefore ended up substituting some courses for desired ones. Do not worry about post college needs when deciding HS courses, as a chemistry major/physician let me reassure you that your child is likely to get good preparation for a college science major from what you’ve posted about courses and guidance. You do not need a prior physics course to do well in AP physics and exam, your call however on the quality of the course and D’s willingness to do outside work- if she is willing this will free up one course in her HS schedule. AP chemistry is preceeded by a HS chemistry course. Son took just the first semester of music theory (phy ed second, couldn’t get the comp sci to fit)- if your D has interest she should do something for fun, as well as knowledge she is unlikely to get later; no need to take the AP exam at all. If your school offers both honors and AP courses in the subject the school can’t say she is taking the most rigorous courses if she does honors instead of AP, son had to take honors Language Arts instead of an AP one junior year in order to finish out his 4th French course, so you can see how the perfect course list doesn’t work.</p>

<p>Regarding numbers of AP courses, do what works for her, not what other students say. She needs to decide what workload suits her, regardless of other students’ views. If she is contemplating the rigors of medical school in her future she will thrive on a rigorous schedule now and in college. Keep in mind that one person’s idea of tough may not be so for another. She will learn the most with the most rigorous schedule, prepare herself for a more rigorous college schedule, possibly find her limits and it looks good for applications. Sohomore year is a time for her to test her limits, she’ll know what to do for junior year, the year colleges will pay most attention to.</p>

<p>Remember, your D has to feel comfortable with HER (it is hers, not yours) decisions. She may decide her comfort level is to not take on potentially too much, this is fine. Later she will also need to find her comfort level. At this point she may need encouragement to stretch herself or she may need your permission to not do so- this is where your parental knowledge of your D is useful, you help her feel good about the path she chooses, allay any anxieties about making the “right” choice.</p>

<p>More confused yet? Remember that hindsight is perfect, do not look back at whatever you/she decide with regrets. There are many good paths that will get her to her goals, realities always modify the ideal plans. The hardest decisions are between equal choices. Don’t worry, whichever of her options she chooses she will be able to succeed in going to a good fit college and doing well. Am I glad those days are behind me. Good luck. ps- just crossposted with you as I composed and edited this long post.</p>

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<p>Hmm, I don’t know a thing about your D. If she’s really mature and destined for Princeton I doubt it makes any difference. If on the other hand, she’s still maturing then it really can make a big difference. Some brains “get” advanced scientific concepts later than others. For my D senior year of HS was perfect for AP Calc, and she got 5 on her AP test. Taking it earlier would have been a disaster. And yet AP Bio was easy for her in tenth grade. Go figure.</p>

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<p>AP Physics B isn’t that difficult, at least in our school it just replaced honors physics, but there’s no guarantee it will get her credit in college (none given at Carnegie Mellon for example - only for Physics C). It will be a very good foundation though for any college level physics she might take. I think either Music Theory or Enviro would be fine if she’s interested. I’d take whichever has a better teacher or another elective that seemed interesting.</p>