<p>And if some were “academically inferior”? Why should anyone care? Their drive, grit, and determination is likely to take them far, often far further than those academically gifted non-athletes who end up in the bottom quarter of their college graduating classes because they lacked all of the above.</p>
<p>I agree with your description of scholar-athletes. But suppose that a goodly portion of them aren’t scholars? Are they any less deserving of a good education as a result? Are they likely to contribute any less to society or to the world? Or to their college or university?</p>
The new reporting methods allow for this. If a student goes pro (or leaves school/transfers for any reason) but is in good academic standing, this no longer negatively impacts the graduation rates for his college. I don’t think anyone has a stronger commitment to education than I do, but if I had a child being recruited to play proball & sign a multimillion$ contract, I’d give my blessings. On a similar note, I know kids who have been cast in Broadway shows and given other performing arts opportunities & they put college on hold for a bit. You’re only young once, and college can be completed at any age.</p>
<p>If I had a Div1 level athlete I would not want her to attend a school that DIDN’T offer extensive academic support services for all the jocks. The time commitment, travel hours, stress, etc that these athletes face is enormous. Some schools do cut corners; some do exploit the kids; and some have successfully achieved a perfect formula for developing true scholar-athletes. Choose carefully.</p>
<p>“If I had a Div1 level athlete I would not want her to attend a school that DIDN’T offer extensive academic support services for all the jocks.”</p>
<p>There is a difference between having academic support services and having tutors who write papers or whatevery you are implying. I know at Wisconsin the support services include adequate access to computers and quiet study areas near the practice facilities so the athletes don’t have to own their own computers if they can’t afford them or fight for a spot in the computer labs that can be busy and noisy. </p>
<p>I pretty much only refer to the ‘legal’ academic support services available to athletes - those programs that provide legit services - not the cheatin’ kind - which is a direct reflection on the coach/athletic department/AD. Some programs/coaches have required study time/hall - tutors who do legit turoring - computers available - etc. A good coach keeps tabs of their athletes grades/progress and will make sure the athlete gets the help needed to stay eligable - kinda like loco parentis - tho not all for sure.</p>
<p>Not the kinds of “paying for your essays” that wealthy, non-athletes are known to resort to at the prestige colleges. (No, I am not overstating the case - the companies that supply the essays wouldn’t be doing such a booming business if it wasn’t for them, and I had classmates who supported themselves through college at #1 LAC that way.)</p>
<p>University of Wisconsin and Notre Dame are two model programs that I know of.</p>
<p>I am unaware of any academic support services that are special for athletes at my D’s school or available to her. I frankly don’t give a care in her case. She is academically motivated to excel and wants to and is a student first and foremost, even though her dedication to her team is phenomenal. She doesn’t need tutors. She tutors others. I just remembered that she was asked this semester to run French conversation sessions for lower level French students, for pay in fact. She has no special considerations for class registration. </p>
<p>I get tired of the put downs of athletes and the assumption that to be an athlete means you are of lesser academic ability or achievement of other college students. If anything, I admire these kids who have to put in countless hours daily and on weekends and on school vacations for their team commitment and who often manage to still excel at academics. I feel they should be applauded rather than be put down. </p>
<p>Mini, I must be naive as I have not heard through my kids of anyone having papers written for them. And my kids know a lot of wealthy kids (though they themselves are not). For instance, for just one class last semester, I recall my D writing a 90 page paper with two partners. Even if the partners were wealthy, the work was all done by these students. </p>
<p>So now I am reading biases against athletes and then I am reading biases against students of wealth (and prestige schools) and in both cases, huge assumptions and stereotypes are being stated.</p>
<p>“Mini, I must be naive as I have not heard through my kids of anyone having papers written for them.”</p>
<p>Well, then I suspect they’re not telling. Those companies are getting very rich on someone, and it ain’t people on Pell Grants. I’m NOT saying that “most students” are doing it. I’m not saying that most wealthy students are doing it. I am saying that it is rather common - and it was common 35 years ago when I was in school, though at that time it was a one-on-one cash business. And if you are paying for it, you must have something to pay with.</p>
<p>Yes, you must be naive.</p>
<p>And I am also saying that likely the majority of athletes at colleges are not “scholar-athletes” (there are only so many Academic All-Americans), and they are doing just fine. And I am also saying that 25% of the students at your d’s school, at my d’s school, and at every college I know of are in the bottom quarter of the class, and the bottom quarter is not wholly populated by athletes. And further, if it was, what’s wrong with that? They are getting the very same degrees as your d. and my d.</p>
<p>I’m sorry that your d’s school doesn’t offer academic support services for athletes. Perhaps had they done so, the student that I know wouldn’t have dropped out.</p>
<p>SOOZIEVT - I don’t think they are biases at all - but in reality - things like this have happened - fairly often too - and not only to athletes. In both high schools and colleges - and one usually has to have funds available in order to partake of them - so I think that assumption is directed towards the more wealthy students. In years past there have been scandals regarding this - tho not lately that I have heard. There are web sites that provide ‘borrowed papers’ - students have submitted their papers to them for ‘storage’ and they end up being recycled - alot of kids get caught because of plagerism with these papers - tho some tend to skim thru without a notice.</p>
<p>Your gal is a great student/athlete - I am sure had she needed any help academically - she would have received it if needed - her school may not have a ‘special program’ for athletes - but I am sure if a student was at risk - there would be help made available - she herself is helping others - thus there is a support system available at Brown.</p>
<p>Thanks for the nice statement about UW, Mini. I would never claim them to be a model but I think they try pretty hard to run a clean program. That does not mean that athletes never bought a paper or got into trouble with the law. Some have had legal troubles. One current basketball player has received 4 underage drinking (not driving) tickets over the last few years. I don’t think he should still be on the team but he is although he does not play anymore and probably won’t the rest of the year. Finally he has turned 21 but still–4 tickets takes some real stupidity. You pretty much have to be passed out drunk.</p>
<p>JeepMom, there are academic support systems at Brown for all students. I am unaware of anything special for athletes. If there is, my D must not know about them, but by the same token, doesn’t need them. </p>
<p>My D’s team has made the national championships for her sport each year. They must miss school for a full week. They have to get all their work and so forth. I recall during freshman year, that the university was not keen on letting them go to Nationals because it entailed missing a week of school. They had to work on the university to let them go and every single girl is a top notch student to boot. All their professors agreed to the trip. I have been to these events and the girls are studying after a long day of the event…including courses like Organic Chemistry. </p>
<p>Mini…I may be naive. It isn’t that my kids are not telling. Perhaps my kids’ friends, despite in some cases, great wealth, are very honest students. I don’t doubt that the bought papers exist, but it may not be so common or fit any one particular stereotype. I do feel that I am reading biases against athletes, against students of wealth, and against those attending prestigious universities.</p>
<p>I attend athletic events every weekend for my D’s team and these girls are SO committed to both their sports, other ECs (one, for example, is musical director for an a capella group), and to their academics, research, internships, GREs, MCATS, etc.</p>
<p>The funny thing is; even if you speak to the stereotype athlete; inner city; average student; nothing special; more of them mention sports as a way to get to college; than college being a means to going pro. These kids know that to have a truly successful future, that a college education is imperative. Not that you can’t be successful and happy without college, just that college makes it easier and opens more opportunities. These athletes; whether they are academic scholars or average students, know how important college and an education is. This is what the majority of them are aiming for. </p>
<p>Whether they get a scholarship because they are musically talented; are an artist in other ways; through academics; or through sports; these individuals have figured out a way to take “THEIR” talent and parlay it into getting into college. Nothing wrong with that. Seems like the opinion mentioned earlier that most of the disagreements or arguments come from those who didn’t have any special talent to help them get into college. Maybe the concept that colleges are looking for well rounded students has something to be said about it? Maybe just doing well with a gpa isn’t enough? </p>
<p>I would have to assume that the same opinion of athletes goes towards students who get a scholarship for being in the band, a cheerleader, painter or other physical artist, chorus singer, etc… Maybe the only people that should ever get a scholarship should be those with a high enough gpa.</p>
<p>No body here or elsewhere should EVER feel the need to explain their S or D being a college athelete and a college student to any posters. As I read these posts I keep seeing folks explaining how their child can do it all and don’t get me wrong I do think that’s great, but in the same token you’re having to explain your kid “like there’s something wrong with them”. </p>
<p>Please, your kids are great, they are having full college experiences there should be no need to defend or justify your children or their teammates to anybody.</p>
<p>I really don’t care where athletes go to school, but I wish the news media around here wasn’t constantly talking about where Terrelle Pryor might go to college for football. He’s having a national press conference tomorrow to announce his decision! My daughter and I have been having fun comparing his college search with hers, imagining the differences in college visits. We are SO tired of hearing about him, we wish him all the best, but there is no talk of his going to college for an education - he’s going for football. Didn’t LeBron James go straight from high school to the NBA? Why doesn’t the NFL do that?</p>
<p>Bay,
Upon reading that link, it seems to me that many of those academic support services are available to all Brown students, which I know do exist. I didn’t see or know of anything that is so different for athletes that any student can’t get who needs it. I’m not complaining as I think there are support services in place. I just don’t know if athletes get some sort of ‘special’ treatment academically that is not available to any student at the college. Granted, I have never paid attention or heard of any of it because to be honest, my D doesn’t seem to require assistance of this nature and is exceling at school. From what I can tell, her teammates seem to be the type who do well academically (I am around them every weekend and hear what sorts of things they are working on and so forth)</p>
<p>At my daughter’s school, as an athlete, she has NO priority enrollment whatsoever. During fall semester, she had practice just 15 hours per week. During spring semester, she is gone off campus for 13 hours midweek and the ENTIRE weekend every weekend, plus a full week for National Championships. (this is not to mention a full three weeks of full time training over the school break) I can tell you that she must work her courses around her schedule. She is gone all of Tuesday and Thursday mornings, for instance. Some courses are hard for ANYONE to get into and she had no special consideration. One course she is taking this semester, she had to apply for last year as they can’t nearly accomodate everyone who wants to take it. She was selected but had nothing to do with being an athlete…the professor would have no idea in fact. Another class she really wanted that is so popular as well and you had to be selected and many turned away, she kept showing up the past two weeks and still didn’t make it off the wait list and showed up again today and was persistent and was allowed in (happy news of the day). She surely had no help in this matter by being an athlete (I only wish, LOL). Perhaps at other schools there is priority enrollment for athletes but that is not the case for her at her school. She has to get into classes like anyone else and also work around blocks of time in her daily schedule for sport commitments. Add in having to get up before 6 AM, it is quite the commitment but she loves it. Being away from school from Friday afternoons through Sunday night every week ain’t easy with the work load either.</p>