On a lighter note, I found a password to his account at seniordating.com.
Was instantly left with no desire to view his profile and also relieved that he had found a loving companion at his retirement community.
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Add making your own list of passwords for your spouse, not just for parents. H’s list is so chaotic finding the ones for anything financial (even the newspaper subscription) is a nightmare. Having his passwords in my logical format has saved us time. And who knows- the unthinkable may happen and one of you dies.
We each have our strengths and roles that evolved over decades of marriage. It is great to let your spouse take care of those unpleasant tasks but now is the time to learn what to do. For us it is H being able to do some cooking, which I love to do. For me it is knowing the specifics of online transactions, I hate financial stuff (would have majored in it if I had liked it…). We spent decades raising our kids to be somewhat competent in many of these areas but often let the other spouse do what s/he liked and we didn’t.
My EE degree father never would embrace computers despite our and CS son’s offers and my (un)lucky sister has his POA et al. His body needs to catch up with his deteriorating mind (in his 90’s). We will find so many of papers with the same phone numbers, birthdays…we no longer give him info to write down. Son better outlive us.
Feel like the middle of a sandwich, anyone?
BunsenBurner, you are fear-mongering. My iPhone is locked using FaceID. Good luck breaking that. Trying to guess my passcode then? Phone set to wipe after 3 incorrect attempts. If you somehow manage to get in (good luck since the US Goc can’t) then the password vault is 256-bit encrypted with a totally unique password >8 alpha-numeric digits. Takes a supercomputer years to break that. In total - as secure as possible. Certainly more secure than people who think writing down passwords in a book and then hiding the book is secure!
The problem with writing all the passwords down is that the passwords may be changed – and the person might forget to write them down. And all security advisors uniformly advise to use different passwords for each site or account, and also to change passwords periodically. Additionally – I think that most passwords that people create for themselves are much less secure (and easily hackable) than passwords created by a random generator. Plus a person is much more likely to make a transcription mistake when writing down a complex password.
That’s the problem the OP ran into:
It wasn’t that the father didn’t write them down, it’s that his written record was full of inaccurate and incomplete entries.
If you have POA over someone’s account and are given financial trustee/fiduciary duties, wouldn’t providing proof of that to financial institutions be sufficient or is it the delay in that process that is a problem? I know our estate attorney would assist in giving access to accounts should something happen to us.
@Nrdsb4 - sorry for all you are facing. (Password keeping is a bear under the best of circumstances.)
@doschicos - even with POA, part of the problem can be finding the accounts at all. A friend’s brother passed away unexpectedly and had his whole life online. He never got statements in the mail so it was difficult to figure out which financial institutions he used until she could get access to his computer. And forget about being able to shut down Facebook, online photos etc.
This article discusses some of the issues:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/12/your-money/plan-your-digital-legacy-and-update-often.html
I am not fear mongering. Just pointing the obvious. It might take a Supreme Court decision to allow the FBI to unlock the “front door” of your phone, but a password storage app might back the data up outside your phone. Then there are things like Facebook messenger - the virus everyone is Ok with downloading. Data stored on your phone’s hard drive does not mean it is only stored there.
You are missing the point. You totally have the choice to keep your password data vault on your phone or the cloud.
See my post above. Even if someone does miraculously get a copy of your vault it is still 256-but encrypted and will take a supercomputer to open. And it’s never been documented to happen.
It is comments like these that discourage people from using these tools. They then write the passwords down, store them on an Excel spreadsheet, or use the same password for everything.
There is no such thing as absolute security. All you can do is make it as difficult as possible to get your data. A password vault on your phone does that.
I’ve been in I/T since the early 90s. Use secure password vaults like Lastpass or eWallet!
@“Iron Maiden” What happens if you store your password data vault on your phone, and the phone gets lost, stolen or damaged? How do you recover your passwords in that case?
@Nrdsb4 so sorry about your dad. If you are looking for info on accounts, it might be helpful to look at his browser history and bookmarked sites. Best of luck handling everything.
“You are missing the point. You totally have the choice to keep your password data vault on your phone or the cloud.”
I am not missing the point. What you choose to is not what the app might do, apparently, if you have followed the Google, Facebook, etc. saga. I would not store my password list ANYWHERE that bluntly says "Etrade account number **, password ". I would use an internal “encryption.”
Part of it is finding the accounts. The majority of his assets are at one particular institution, but I did find some evidence that there is more out there somewhere. I looked at his tax return, so that helped immensely. But he generates a monthly accounting of his net worth that was a)very difficult to figure out, even for my brother, who is an accountant, and b)references stock options that we can’t find information about. Also, according to his net worth on his monthly statement, we are missing about $150K that I so far haven’t been able to locate. I’m concerned that all his 1099s are going to be sent to him online, which may present a big problem for me when it’s time to file his taxes.
I can get into his email from his phone, but if I try to access his email from my computer using the password in his password book, it doesn’t work, so for now I’m forced to keep his phone; this distresses him because he can’t receive phone calls and texts messages. It’s a mess! This is the kind of thing that could have been prevented if he had just been more meticulous in updating his passwords in his password book and mapping everything out for me.
And to make everything even more fun, his credit card expires at the end of January, and so far he has not received a new one. I have been paying all his bills with his credit card so that I only have to write one check; this is just one other hassle if the credit card has been lost.
So sorry about your dad, @nrdsb4.
When my dad died, my brothers were impressed by my ability to get into all of his online accounts. I got into his email on his computer, then I reset all of his passwords using the “forgot password” link.
Does he have a computer you can take? Perhaps with passwords saved or on auto-fill?
@somemom, it took me almost two weeks to get into his computer, guessing various passwords. Finally did, but no saved passwords.
You wouldn’t think an 82 y/o would do so much of their business online. I do far less than he does.
@nrdsb4, I’m so sorry to hear about your Dad. It does seem like quite a shock considering how young he looked and felt. The same happened with my Dad. Healthy, didn’t even like to take an aspirin, was 86 but looked and acted 75. Then he got kidney cancer and they took the kidney. 2 months later he felt bad, found out the cancer spread and he was dead 19 days after that.
I hope your Dad recovers, how is he doing physically and mentally.
Your post is a great wake up call for all of us.
The basic “best practices” type package and pre/planning should include much of the following.
- will (which covers tangible personal property and specific bequests etc)
-revocable trust (think fairly immediate access to financial accounts and assets not owned in joint accounts. No probate. No confusion.
-irrevocable trusts (these are gifts made during lifetime or at death with specific sets of current and future beneficiaries. There are many reasons to establish. Tax planning for high net worth families ( yes the federal exemption is very high but many states have their own estate tax and it can be as little one or two million in estate assets which includes your home. Protection for heirs who may be facing divorce or bankruptcy or could. Heirs with poor money management skills or drug/alcohol/gambling issues. Special needs children. To provide assets for upkeep of the family beach house or property. Second marriages to make sure assets return to children from first marriage when spouse passes away. And many more. )
-health care proxy. (This allows for end of life care decisions to be made when you are unable and access to information.)
-power of attorney and power of attorney for health care. (These instruments allow for someone to legally act on your behalf for financial or in the second case health care matters. In most cases this becomes null and void if you are incompetent. FYI. )
Make sure you have beneficiaries updated regularly for retirement plans, life insurance.
Make sure if you have specific items of personal property you would like to give out to specific people make a list. Sign and date such list. Notarized if possible.
If you have joint accounts with adult children as a convenience- please make legal accommodation for this (offsetting assets) in your will if the intention is to evenly divide amongst children or heirs. If it’s a joint account it’s 100% theirs at your death. And many families can break apart over such matters. And many times the child with the joint account with you feels they did more to assist you and believe they have earned it or are resentful. Just avoid these bickers by addressing in advance.
If you have a safe deposit box. Please indicate bank and branch in writing for your heirs. Many families have to spend countless hours and hassles trying to track down.
If you have rare items or real estate going to one heir and payment of another sort to the others. Spell out the need for independent outside appraisals.
If you have hidden cash or valuables. Please leave instructions in safe deposit and with your attorney or legal representative. In safe deposit also indicate who that second person was just in case it goes missing. And the lawyer having the info is to make the ones cleaning out the safe box doesn’t clean out the hidden valuables as well.
If you have a flash drive with crypto currencies or info related to hidden valuables please also secure as noted above.
And keep a list of all accounts. By institution with account number and exact account title. If you can give a point in time value along with each and update every few years that is super helpful too.
And remember if it’s at all complicated or will require a lot of leg work - Please name a professional co-executor (attorney, bank trust department or cpa). along with your loved one. It will cost some money but it is so much work. You’d be surprised. Your loved one can oversee and the coexecutor can do much of the legwork. Including filing your estate tax forms which are due 9 months following your death. And they will make sure all the details are followed and deductions accounted for in a legal manner for you.
@privatebanker thank you for taking the time to write your very concise and helpful post. As organized as we try to be, there are some things we could clarify, and some I hadn’t even thought of.
@Nrdsb4 I’m sorry this is so hard and frustrating, especially at such an emotional time. I foresee this being an issue with my parents, too.
I also foresee it being tough with my folks. My dad and older brother claim they have everything under control but I have my doubts. He gets notices and has no idea who the company writing it is.