<p>So I am an international student who commited to Duke against U Chicago just minutes ago (mainly due to the approaching deadline). But right now I am regretting. </p>
<p>1) I am more preprofessional and want to find a decent job (ibanking/consulting) after graduation. U Chicago is in the big city and surly have better opportunities out there, if not job opportunities, at least internship opportunities (considering I am an international, it will be extremly hard for me to get an internship against local students in Duke in terms of smaller internship chances). I am worried without internship, I would suck. So how is the job prospect esp for international students after Duke, are there a lot offers from ibanking/consulting compared with Uchi? And I don’t want to stuck up in South or NY after graduation, how is Duke presented in Chicago, Boston,etc?</p>
<p>2) Duke’s ranking has been declining these years while Uchi is in a rise. I am afraid the gap will be bigger in the near future. Is the future of duke dim？ And also I want to take courses in Econ and as the reputation goes, the econ at Uchi is top-notch. I am wondering how good Duke’s Econ/Statistics major is?</p>
<p>3) I chose Duke mainly because its balance of rigorous academics and fun scenes. I am amazed of how many great programs aka undergraduate resources it has. BUT I’ve heard rumors that there is huge class divide in Duke. I sure can go partying once or twice, but I don’t want to let partying dominate my life. I’d more want to have some witty kids around me discussing events around the globe or in business. I am worried as the Greek scene goes, it will be hard to find my accompanies and I might be isolated.</p>
<p>My English is not that good and I apologize for any grammar mistakes I made. But I sincerely want to hear from the answers. It is a little late to change everything. A little bit conviction will make me worry less and will make my whole heart Duke’s. Thank you in advance.</p>
<p>Don’t worry, you’ll love Duke. Being more pre-professional, Duke is most likely a better fit for you than Chicago which is more academic. Just because UChicago is in a large city doesn’t mean it has better placement and internship opportunities. Duke is a top target school for top ibanking/consulting firms and likely has better placement than Chicago since the student body is more pre-professional. Yes, UChicago econ is second to none, but that’s more from the academic PhD perspective and not the placement into top firms perspective. The top cities for Duke grads are NYC, DC, Boston, San Fran, Atlanta, Raleigh-Durham. That’s a pretty wide range of cities and you’ll be able to go where you see fit. Offices from around the country recruit at Duke. I know plenty of Duke grads that end up in Chicago as well - it’s very well represented. The job prospects are solid, but as an international student you likely will face additional hurdles with visas, etc. (unless you’re a U.S. citizen) but that would be the same at Duke or UChi.</p>
<p>I assume by Duke’s “ranking declining,” you mean the slight change in U.S. News and World Report. Duke went from 8th to 10th and is a single point away from a tie for 5th last year. These are tiny differences and don’t suggest a change in prestige or reputation at all. You can’t take so much stock into one magazine’s ranking system. But if you want to, Duke has been in the top 10 for the last 20 years every single year. UChicago was in the mid teens just 5 years ago or so and now is tied for 5th in the latest ranking, but it’s basically all the same. UChicago hasn’t fundamentally changed as an institution in reputation and Duke hasn’t either. UChicago was ALWAYS a great school despite being in the mid-teens. And Duke is still a great school despite being a single point behind those schools tied for 5th. They are peers. And they were peers in the early 2000s when UChicago was ranked 15th and Duke was ranked 5th and UChicago had a 50% acceptance rate. And they will remain peers in the future. Duke is doing a lot of great things and its reputation will only get better.</p>
<p>If you want a good balance of academics and social life, you chose wisely. Duke will likely provide a more vibrant and fun social experience than UChicago. There is a HUGE diversity of individuals at Duke from a social perspective - you’ll have no problem finding people like you. Some people like to party all the time, but that’s a very small minority. Some people are more intellectual nerds and never want to go out and can find those like them as well. And most people fall somewhere in the middle. Duke is a fun place and you should have a great experience. The academic/social/athletic balance really enriches the experience. There isn’t a huge class divide that I experienced. I was friends with people whose parents were very very wealthy and others who had no money whatsoever…Greek life doesn’t dominate unless you want it to dominate your social scene, but that’s a personal choice. Duke is a lot more social/fun than UChicago and has a lot better weather.</p>
<p>Duke is the right choice for you - don’t look back. You have nothing to worry about!</p>
<p>@bluedog
Thank you for your reply. May I ask if you have any statistics of employment. Can you send me some links? Also, I am a little afraid that UChi has a more intellectual reputation while duke a sports one. Will that be a disadvantage?
I don’t know what kind of talent US companies seek for, but back in China, the companies love book-smart kids(, those who can discuss about Marx, Plato etc). There is respect aroused through these conversations. Will that be the case in US? Are those who are both good at Ec and study better-regarded or those who are excellent in theories and bright better regarded? Thank you soo much, and sorry for any additional trouble I cause.</p>
<p>Employment Statistics:
[Statistics</a> & Reports | Duke Student Affairs](<a href=“Duke Student Affairs”>Duke Student Affairs)
[Class</a> of 2010 Statistics | Duke Student Affairs](<a href=“Duke Student Affairs”>Duke Student Affairs)</p>
<p>Top Employers 2010
- Teach for America
- Goldman Sachs
- Morgan Stanley
- Bank of America/Merrill Lynch
- Accenture
- Google
- Deutsche Bank</p>
<p>Top Locations
- New York, NY
- Washington DC
- RDU, NC
- Boston, MA
- San Francisco, CA</p>
<p>Top Employers 2009
- Teach for America
- Morgan Stanley
- Bank of America
- Goldman Sachs
- ExxonMobil
- The Boston Consulting Group
- Barclays Capital
- Microsoft</p>
<p>Top Hiring Industries (% of Total)
- Finance/Banking (26)
- Consulting (19)
- Education (11)
- Engineering/Technology (11)
- Government (6)
- BioTech/Pharma/Research (6)
- Healthcare (4)</p>
<p>No, you won’t be at a disadvantage going to Duke. If anything, athletics makes people have more school pride and strengthens the alumni network so other Duke alumni want to hire more Duke grads. Some companies want more “intellectual-type” students and others don’t stress that as much - depends on the industry and particular firm. They all want smart individuals, though. Most U.S. companies require social skills, particularly if you’ll be in a more direct client-facing role and Duke is very good at improving people’s social skills as well as academic skills. Stop worrying so much and enjoy college. You’ll have a great experience and be challenged academically and socially, and if you put in the effort, there will be a payoff in the end. Good luck.</p>
<p>Wow, Bluedog, thanks for this great post!!</p>
<p>@niJenny Having just returned from Duke with my D, I can say that of over 20 campuses we have visited, Duke is by far the best one we have seen. My D didn’t even apply to U of C and would be thrilled to get off Wait list at Duke.</p>
<p>As an international who chose Duke over Chicago I want to assure you that you made the right decision. Duke is one of the best IB feeder schools in the country, furthermore the work hard play hard culture ensures that students develop in a holistic fashion and are eminently qualified to meet the challenges that life will invariably throw at them. Duke has consistently been ranked in the us news top 10, and will doubtless remain there for the forseeable future. Although rankings shouldn’t be your primary focus when choosing an institution, I understand that many internationals take them into consideration because they have no other way to gauge the quality of an institution. Chicago is surging in the rankings for the simple reason that it has begun to adopt yield protection strategies in order to enhance selectivity. I wouldn’t pay too much attention to their ascent in recent years. It is merely a phase. Interestingly enough, Duke has been ranked as high as 3, and is the only school apart from stanford to have displaced a member of HYP in the ranking tables. If you tabulate data from 1983 to 2010, Duke has been the most consistently ranked school in the top 10 apart from HYPSM. All the revealed preference studies demonstrate that a majority of cross admits choose to attend duke over chicago. Duke graduates earn the 7th highest salaries in the entire country (ahead of chicago) according to payscale.com. The reason I’m pointing all of this out is because I know how important it is for an international to feel as though he is getting an adequate return on his investment. Duke will definitely prove to be a great experience, trust me on this one. So, don’t regret having made the choice to attend Duke because it is the superior institution for attaining a well rounded education. You will find less pretentious pseudo intellectuals here than you will at Chicago, but there will be no dearth of legitimate intellectual discourse. Chicago caters to students that fit a particular mold, but Duke is a place that anyone can call home. Of course this is a generalization, but if you visit both schools you will find that it proves to be a rather accurate description of both student bodies. At the end of the day, the difference between a school that obtained 93</p>
<p>At the end of the day, the difference between a school that obtained 93 points out of a 100 on us news’s scoring system, and one that obtained 92 points on the same system is marginal to say the least. You made the right decision by choosing based on fit, don’t be plagued by buyer’s remorse. Good luck at Duke!</p>
<p>You’ve made the right decision. Now, go buy a tent to camp at K-ville. If you don’t know what that is, you could be expelled and join UChicago all you want.</p>
<p>^I just want to point out that “top employers” list does not mean those companies hire a huge number. There are hundreds of companies out there and it can take only just a few hires to make the list. That said, Duke is definitely a target for elite firms so you have nothing to worry about as far as comparison against UChicago goes. If anything, Duke grads are pereceived to be just as smart but more social. </p>
<p>But I just want to point it out so you won’t have the false idea that you are going to get into those firms easily. It’s a very tough environment for internationals and many companies no longer sponsor, esp. for entry-level positions. DC, despite its strong job market, is a tough place for internationals as employers are primarily either fed govt agencies or companies that contract with the Fed (hence U.S. citizenship/permanent residency is required).</p>
<p>
I would say all of those companies on the list for the past 3 years hired at least double figure students at Duke. I know in my graduating class, about 10-12 got BCG and another 10-12 got Bain. Other firms like Deloitte and Accenture hire about 10 a piece with all other ones hiring in the single digits.</p>
<p>The banking hiring totals can really add up when you include both investment banking as well as sales & trading positions. For what its worth, at UVA and Michigan, the big 3 consulting firms (MBB) seem to hire about 15 seniors each year while at Duke the number is about 30. I would think the competition at private schools without undergraduate business schools is slightly less fierce since UVA and Michigan have large undergraduate business programs in addition to the Arts & Sciences division, Engineering, etc. vying for these jobs.</p>
<p>@ Sam Lee Thanks so much for your fair comment. I understand the difficulty lied ahead of internationals as many Chinese alumni I know are going to HK or Singapore for job. The relatively large number of Chinese students in Duke ( about 35 each year ) will really be a source of competition. Uchi only has about 20 Chinese students each yesr. I presume this is yet another advantage of UChi. I really need your insight in whether or not a larger group of Chinese students will dim my future job scene. Thank you again.</p>
<p>@ goldenboy8784 Wow. The statistics are great~And I’ve also heard rumors that Duke places great into investment banking, a tier below wharton and Harvard, on par with Columbia. I really want to know how Duke places into Chicago’s financial industies. Actually I love Chicago THE CITY and would love to work there. And also, do you know any international students who break into the big name companies you mentioned? Thank you so much~</p>
<p>Duke having 15 more Chinese students than UChicago should make absolutely zero difference in regards to how difficult it is for an international student to get the proper visas, work authorization, etc. It’s not like the 35 Chinese students at Duke are competing for a single open slot at Goldman Sachs, while the 20 Chinese students at UChicago get to also compete for the exact same number of spots, making their odds better. It’s not on a per school basis. Rather, the company has a set number of slots in which they deem exceptional students can be sponsored for work purposes. If all of those happen to come from Harvard and no other school, that’s fine with them as long as they’re getting great workers. They don’t care where the students come from and there are no quotas. Thus, if there are more super qualified students at Duke applying than UChicago, then Duke will get more sponsors. And vice versa for UChicago. </p>
<p>I certainly agree with Sam Lee that the job market for internationals is rough and it’s far from a guarantee to get a top notch finance job. I would think the number of international students getting the jobs at top finance firms in the U.S. is quite small and competition is fierce - when a company has enough qualified U.S. citizens for available positions, they don’t feel the need to go through the extra legwork of hiring an international student. They are more likely to hire for their London, Hong Kong, etc. offices. I don’t see any difference between UChicago and Duke in this regard.</p>
<p>I live in Chicago as a Duke alumnus. There is quite a large Duke community in Chicago (although not as large as NYC, DC, San Fran) and many of them are in the finance industry with top firms. If you want to end up in Chicago, you shouldn’t have a problem coming from Duke.</p>
<p>Out of all the international students that I know of who has received IB offers within the United States, one is a British-HK citizen and the other a Canadian Chinese.</p>
<p>Companies aren’t willing to sponsor H1 visas for bacholor degree holders. Don’t know about wall street, but most silicon valley only sponder H1 for master/doctorate degree holders.</p>
<p>A Canadian Chinese wouldn’t need H1-B visa anyway since there’s a seaparate employment authorization that’s renewable every year indefinitely for Canadian citizens (Canadians don’t need visa to come to the US). As for the “British-HK citizen”, I take it that means a full-fledged British national that got HK permanent residency (an average HK citizen was not a real British national even before 1997 - no right to reside or get employement). So perhaps the internationalism was part of the hook. The point is the international would need to be pretty unique.</p>
<p>A lot of companies don’t sponsor not only because there are enough domestic talents but also because it’s just not PC when plenty of US citizens are struggling to find jobs.</p>