Please give me honest assessment of these ACT scores

Parents Forum
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<p>My daughter went to a private christian school for her entire education (IRCS in Largo Florida). Although her grades were pretty good, I fear that IRCS gives away high grades to make parents happy.
She is now about to start college and is taking nothing but remedial classes.
Her composite ACT score is 18.
Her english score was 16, math 16, reading 20, and science 19.
The highest score possible is 36.</p>

<p>My understanding of these scores is that roughly 76% of all high school students scored higher than her in math, and 62% scored higher in science. Obviously college students would have considerably higher ACT scores, but I can’t find any information about that.</p>

<p>Is it conceivable that she could attain a degree in dental hygiene? That is an 88 hour course of study.</p>

<p>It might also be relevant to note that she is 19 years old and has yet to drive a car nor get a license. She took the multiple choice test to get a learners permit and failed it 5 times (I honestly have never heard of anyone failing that test even one time, and certainly not 5).</p>

<p>Everyone I talk to dodges my questions. I need to have a realistic assessment of her potential so she doesn’t spend many years pursuing something she is not capable of attaining. What makes it even more disturbing is that I don’t sense that she has any interest in getting an education. She seems to have enrolled as a part-time student taking all remedial courses just as something to do now that she has graduated from the unrealistic shelter of IRCS private school.</p>

<p>Honestly, I feel betrayed by IRCS and they should be sued for providing sub-standard education. Unfortunately, IRCS does not take public funding, so they are exempt from the scrutiny of the school board, etc. </p>

<p>Those ACT scores really sent a chill down my spine. The college she applied to also tests incoming students which resulted in the remedial courses. Is it reasonable to expect remedial courses to make a 19 year old smarter?</p>

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<p>Those scores are considerably low in my opinion, especially if her GPA belies a C or C- average. I think an “average score” would have been more like 23/24.</p>

<p>Now, here’s my advice about a kid being in school who doesn’t want to be in school. Take a semester off. Learn a little about what an education can provide and not just do it because it seems time to do it. There is such an independence needed to succeed in college and unless there is some self-motivation here, succeeding will be difficult at best. </p>

<p>ACT tests what a kid actually learned in HS and I do think remedial classes can help a great deal if the kid buys into it. But if they don’t, you might very well be spending a lot of good money for no results.</p>

<p>However, I will also say this… did the kid really study for the driving test and still fail four times? Was she allowed to constantly retest to bring her grades up in HS? Did she take ACT prep and still do this poorly? If the answer is yes to all of these, I would question if there might not be some sort of learning issue. And much to the disagreement of some, I think kids we describe as merely lazy can also be compensating for their frustration with their learning issues. “If I am not going to do well, I won’t even bother.” I’d get it checked out by a professional, 19 or not.</p>

<p>My oldest D is going back to school this year at 24. She was not emotionally mature enough to do all that she really needed to do to be successful in school. She is very intelligent as all IQ tests etc proved, but if she refused to take her ADD meds or use a planner or meet with professors, it didn’t much matter how smart she was. Now, however, she is really wanting this and it shows. I also think she has a great deal more confidence to ask for help than she did at 18. Hugely so.</p>

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<p>For ACT, 50th percentile is a 20/21. It is hard to get into any decent school with an ACT<20.</p>

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<p>Remedial courses are not supposed to make someone “smarter”. They are supposed to give them a better foundation for the harder college courses to come. There is a HUGE difference.</p>

<p>If your daughter wants to be in school AND she does well enough (B average) on these remedial courses, she should be fine in her college program. Does she WANT to be a dental hygenist? If she does, she will likely work hard towards that goal. If she does not want to pursue this degree, she may not find the coursework all that interesting. You say she doesn’t have any interest in getting an education. Perhaps she should be doing something else this year…not going to school…working at a job would be a good choice.</p>

<p>Re: the school surely you knew the quality of the education at this Christian school long before now. Many kids…in fact most…take the ACT or SAT during their junior year of high school. I’m sure there were other reasons you chose this school…not because if it’s academic reputation.</p>

<p>I think you need to forget the ACT scores and the high school now. Those are in the past. You need to help your daughter look forward in a positive way. SHE needs to find something that SHE would like to do for the immediate future…it might be college and it might not be. I have to say…this is a college website, but the reality is that college is NOT for every student…and sometimes college is not for students directly out of high school.</p>

<p>If your daughter is agreeable to taking these remedial courses, and works hard at doing well…this will tell you and her a lot about what you might be considering for the future.</p>

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<p>I don’t think the OP is concerned about what is a “decent” school, I think the OP is questioning a course of action for her D. Does she want to be in dental hygiene? I think you should spend some time talking to her about what she wants for her future. There are colleges that will help a low achieving student that wants to achieve to get to “college speed” which is generally around a 21 composite ACT I do believe. I know some of our regional colleges accept students in a probation status taking remedial courses for motivated students with low scores/GPA. As a parent I would take a long, hard look at her study habits…can she study efficiently, can she retain information that she has studied. If you have the financial resources you could have her tested to see if there is an underlying learning disorder that might enable her to have additional resources at the college level, but I fear these types of resources are going to be few and far between in a paraprofessional type school. It’s unfortunate that you feel shut-out of information from her high school as it woud certainly help to get some perspective. Are their any former teachers she had that you would be comfortable contacting? I don’t know what to say about the written driving test but there is an odd disconnect between getting “pretty good” grades in high school and having so much trouble with testing. I did would echo the “did she study?” for the driving test?</p>

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<p>What does your daughter say? Does she want to be a dental hygenist? What did her high school say about her career/educational prospects?</p>

<p>At the dental hygenist program at my local community college, the student is required to complete a college-level English class, Pre-Calculus, and six college-level Biology classes. Your daughter may have some undiagnosed learning disability (did her high school ever mentioned anything like that?) or some other problem, but if your daughter’s ACT scores are representative of her actual ability, she might not be intellectually capable of completing those courses.</p>

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<p>I am sorry, do not want to sound rude, but you have asked for honest opinion, I have never heard of ACT=18. Did she study at all? I do not mean that she needs a prep class, I mean if she study by herself, which should be enough to pull it higher than that. Some material, math in particular, is old from earlier grades and needs to be refereshed.</p>

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<p>BingoMo - I have a D that sounds very similar. She failed the permit test three times and then I purchased an online practice package and she finally passed, although she does not yet have her license.</p>

<p>My D does have a diagnosed learning disability, although it is “unspecified”. She had years of schooling where teachers gave her As, I assume thinking that it would lead me to believe that she was doing well. My D has a hard time focusing, although she is not hyperactive at all. You should definitely have her tested - it will help you to understand her aptitude in context. My Ds testing was covered by health insurance.</p>

<p>I definitely have to push my D. If left to her own devices, she would do nothing. By looking at my D’s scores/grades etc. it’s been helpful to rule out areas where she has no interest or ability. She’s very compassionate, so I once thought she could be a nurse - but her experience in high school chemistry and on the ACTs told us otherwise. Is there an area your D likes? Could you have her meet with someone in a dental hygienist education program who could talk to your D? PM me if you want.</p>

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<p>those scores are pretty low. : ( sorry you are having this to deal with, though i agree you should have had a heads up at psat time at least.</p>

<p>there are most likely plenty of jobs she could do. what does she want to do?</p>

<p>maybe some kind of two year degree would be best if she is just not a great student. but it depends on what she wants to do!</p>

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<p>if i had been paying for this “education” i would be pretty ****ed off!</p>

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<p>Bingomom, where I live (different state) you are entitled to have the local public school district evaluate her, even is she goes to private school Where I live it is a pretty comprehenseive test. Your D is young and has her life in front of her. Good luck.</p>

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<p>kayf…I think this student is no longer a school student. Once a student has graduated from high school, the “free evaluations” offered through the public school district no longer apply.</p>

<p>Mike…my guess is that the family was paying for this Christian School for reasons other than academic ones. Surely somewhere along the way, there was an indication that this young lady was having difficulty on SOMETHING. OR perhaps the school was small enough, with enough 1:1 attention, that she was able to get along. That DOES happen. Or perhaps the curriculum at the school was a weak one.</p>

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<p>Thumper, where I live, 19YO who have not recd state diploma are still eligible. Dont know florida. where I thought they also had “exit” exams. </p>

<p>Local CC may also have some screening/aptituted testing.</p>

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<p>I don’t know about dental hygiene, so can’t help there. But, IMO, even if she decides on dental hygiene, a year’s worth of remedial classes can only help her in life. (Stronger readin’, writin’ and 'rithmatic…) And yes, those scores are low, but, a community college won’t care. </p>

<p>fwiw: in California, approx. half of the matriculating Frosh to a Cal State Uni campus require “remedial” math and/or English/Writing, so your D is not alone. </p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>As others have posted, there are a lot of very good careers that do not require a college degree. Your D might try to take a class or two at a community college to start though, if she’s interested. Remedial classes are a great idea if she has to make up for a deficient high school program. She can take some time to decide what she wants to do. </p>

<p>Or she can start another job path. It might be a good investment to have her complete a vocational interest survey. Sometimes the tests can identify career paths that don’t immediately come to mind. Does she want to go into hospitality management or cooking, practical nursing, office work, the military, retail management, the dental hygienist career you mentioned, cake-decorating or photography/arts, day-care worker taking care of small children, cosmetologist, etc. </p>

<p>While exploring her interests, you should confirm that she didn’t freeze up, become ill or have some other crisis during the ACTS. I work with someone whose kid froze during the test. He just stopped answering questions when he thought he had already wrecked his chances. Before you can advise your D, you need an honest assessment. Even having her take a sample test in an ACT book will give you an indication whether the 18 was correct or not. If it’s accurate, she may not get accepted to many colleges but she might still get accepted into other programs. If she finds something that interests her, she will perform better in that area. (You want to make sure, obviously, that any school she selects has been around for awhile, doesn’t have Better Business Bureau complaints, and helps graduates find employment.) If she is going to train for a career that may be licensed, check the school to see what its graduates’ record is for any licensing exam. </p>

<p>You can weigh whether taking the ACT again with more preparation or an accomodation for her disability (more test taking time, for ex.) might be appropriate. If she tells you that she doesn’t want to pursue a college education at this time, retaking the ACT would be unncessary. On the other hand, consider whether accomodations might be needed if there’s a licensing exam for whatever career she might be interested in pursuing.</p>

<p>Don’t be too discouraged. The 4-year college track isn’t the right path for everyone. It’s disappointing when a kid doesn’t doesn’t seem to have it as easy as others, but each S/D has to find their own way. As one of my kids tells me often, it isn’t who wins at high school or at college, but who succeeds at the game of life over the long term that counts. Success also has many measures.</p>

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<p>OP, aside from various assumptions about learning difficulties, did you talk to your daughter about possible causes that she might be aware of. What if she does not want to go to college and just randomly filled bubbles on test? And again, has it been identified, what preparation strategy is needed, how much time she needs to prepare, what sections, how she did on specific sections when taking timed practice tests on her own? I would make any kind of assumptions only after these and other questions / concerns are addressed. Her HS has little to do with this test, as some material is from previous years, other depend very much on preparation. This test is sole responsibility of a student vs other tests like final exams in HS, for example.</p>

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<p>Here…if a student receives their High School diploma, and have graduated from high school, they are no longer eligible for testing per IDEA (federal special ed legislation). If they are a 19 year old who has not graduated from high school and received their diploma, they WOULD be eligible. Once you graduate from high school, the provisions of IDEA do not apply. Special education students up to age 21 CAN stay in school and receive special education services IF they do not receive their diplomas.</p>

<p>We do not have a “state” diploma here.</p>

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<p>BingoMo,</p>

<p>I have run across a couple of colleges that will accept a grouping of writing samples instead of and ACT/SAT score. If your daughter decides that a 4 year college is for her, then this might be worth exploring.</p>

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<p>Dental hygiene is not rocket science, so don’t worry so much that your daughter can’t handle it. It’s surely more a matter of whether she wants to handle it. My wife has worked in the medical/dental field for a few years, and we know several hygienists who were not fantastic students but got through anyway and now make a very nice living. It’s a great job, right up there with nursing in terms of demand, security, pay, and benefits.</p>

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<p>some students are going into successful careers in health care. they first get the cna, then maybe the cma, then their lpn, and then can look to bridge programs to get the rn. in some cases, once they are past the cna, the employer will pay for the continued education. an alternative path that seems to be successful from what I am hearing :)</p>