Student is from upstate NY, minority, prospective engineering major. Rejected by top choices including Georgia Tech, Vanderbilt, UVA . Accepted into engineering at UMich (no merit so far), UIUC (no merit), UW Madison (generous merit), BU (no merit), SUNY Binghamton, Stony Brook. Strongest preference for UMich by far, even though UW will cost much less (even less than SUNY). Is hesitant about UW after visiting- concerned about fit due to less diverse student population, housing challenges etc. Would prefer more vibrant student life than Stony Brook as it was very quiet on the weekend we visited. Neutral on Binghamton. Trying not to look at this from only a financial perspective (we are otherwise full pay) but struggling with this decision. Would welcome other thoughts, thanks 
Are all options affordable without parent loans?
Before the student applied, did you set any price limit or financial conditions?
What kind of engineering or not yet decided?
Note that Wisconsin engineering has progression GPAs that can be significantly higher than 2.0 – i.e. weed-out.
No matter what a student prefers, one can’t go where they can’t afford - and there’s unlikely to be a career outcome difference from Wisconsin to Michigan.
I’m not sure of the ethnicity - but both are diverse. In the last CDS, Wisconsin first year class was 58% caucasian and Michigan 48%. So both diverse - yes, one more than the other but both more diverse than most.
In the end, it matters to you affordability wise - are you willing to pay Michigan $76K at today’s rate for two years and $80K the last two years (it goes up) - plus inflation or whatever delta you have at Wisconsin - likely for the same outcome and a similar vibrant student life.
Housing will work out wherever you go - all these students live somewhere.
In the end, it’s likely kids from these schools will be working together, making similar money - so you have to decide is it worth spending whatever the delta is - sounds like hundreds of thousands of dollars.
That’s an individual value call - and only you can make it.
But to me, Wisconsin would be a fair sub for Michigan and I imagine the level of diversity being satisfactory is up to each individual, but I would say (and I’m white) that U Wisconsin is extremely diverse. But I’m not you.
Best of luck in your decision.
With reasonable parent loans, we were thinking 60k a year, so BU is not an option at all. We did not set a hard price limit, and applied widely hoping for better merit; stats are good but turned out not to be good enough. She is leaning toward computer engineering, but not fully decided.
Thank you for the info about the progression GPAs at Wisconsin
Isn’t UMICH COA astronomical for OOS? I thought it is like top private…
Yep, first two years $76k, last two $80k.
Are you planning to take loans for it?
Maddison is very reputable for Engineering…
Go to where you can afford.
Our San Diego daughter went to SUNY Buffalo on a full ride for a specific med school program. She got into top 10 schools but upon visiting, didn’t like some.
She changed her majors to (what we have at the UCs/CSUs) “EECS” (pronounced “eeks”). She double majored in Electrical Engineering and Computer Software Engineering.
Graduated and returned to SoCal Working for some large international corporate engineering firms.
Oh did I mention that we are Mexican American from SoCal? She was the only girl in all of her classes. This was about 12 years ago. There were only four females in the whole department taking classes.
Every single professor in those departments knew who she was and would call her by name anytime they saw her. They wrote fantastic letters of recommendation for her. She was the only female engineering and software tutor they had ever had.
Yes she should’ve could’ve gone to Yale and yes we would’ve been out a lot of dollars, but she chose to save our money.
She didn’t care about the so-called “prestige” of the school. She’s very bright and intelligent and smart, and so were her classmates. She could figure out the finances.
She’s been the youngest engineer ever put in charge of the engineering program at one of her companies. She’s been constantly headhunted, rejecting offers from other corporate companies.
If your family has to go into debt for an engineering degree, when there are other options that will work, then that doesn’t sound like anyone is taking advantage of the smart offers presented.
Our Daughter did not have any debt when she graduated. She put all of her work salaries towards buying property and traveling.
FWIW, we have heard great things about Bing’s engineering program from current and former students, even though it’s not ranked high on the USNWR list for engineering. It may make sense to go to the admitted student day on 4/14.
And agree with the other poster who said UMich is unaffordable based on your budget.
Define reasonable? Everyone is different. The government ensures loans to $27K total. To me, reasonable is $0 if you have it…especially if chasing merit. Perhaps it’s too late now - but when building a merit list, you go down in “pedigree” so that your student stands above - i.e. you find schools that buy kids in. That said, getting merit and it sounds like a lot from Wisconsin is rare - so congrats.
OP- you need to sharpen your pencils (and do a financial deep dive- every credit card, insurance payment, recurring subscription, taxes, utilities, etc.) if you are even CONTEMPLATING parent plus loans.
I am not anti-educational debt. I am a rah rah “loans are there for a reason” person because I have seen in my own family what a difference a modest amount of educational debt means for a young person’s career trajectory and life.
But-- that means the maximum in federal loans (which for your kid means under 30K TOTAL for all four years.)
You need to figure out where every dollar in tuition money is going to come from before you fall down the rabbit hole. If you think it’s hard saving 50K (which it is), imagine paying off 50K worth of loans- PLUS INTEREST which accrues every single month. Muffler falls off the car- you still have a loan payment. compressor on the refrigerator dies- you still have a loan payment. Your boss announces “no annual bonuses this year” or “no overtime”- you still have a loan payment.
I think any math you do which goes above and beyond your kid working summers, an 8-10 hour job during the semesters, and the federal capped loans-- starts to become crazy math.
Good luck- your kid sounds FANTASTIC which you already know.
My take on this is that you are comparing a very strong set of universities. From an academic point of view you are comparing excellent with excellent.
Years ago I was associated with a high tech project where a team from the University of Wisconsin was doing the work. I think that there were both undergrad and graduate students involved. I was very impressed by the team and by the work that they did. I have kept in touch with one of the now former students who has done very well with his career. I remember both technical excellence and just a nice group of people.
I would be very cautious about taking on any loans beyond the federally subsidized amount ($27,000 in total for four years if I have this right). I would be particularly cautious when your affordable alternatives are U.Wisconsin and two SUNY’s.
Another thing to keep in mind for an engineering major: It might be worth making sure that wherever your student goes, that you do not have a serious financial problem if it all takes 5 years instead of 4. We (mostly I) actually told a little white lie to our kids when they were high school seniors and set a per year budget that we could have handled for 5 years, even though we told them it was the four year budget. Similarly, if your student has siblings, whatever I would spend on student #1 I would take as a precedent that I was willing to spend an equivalent amount for any younger siblings.
And I wonder whether or not Michigan would consider matching an offer from Wisconsin, or at least reducing the gap. I would expect them to see each other as peers. You could at least ask. Be calm and polite when you ask.
And yes, you are looking at a very strong set of acceptances.
Exactly what they want in a student community as a minority is obviously a very personal thing. I would note that if I am doing my math right, in the latest NCES data there were something like 14000 or so undergrads at Wisconsin who did not identify as white US residents, about 9000 US people of color, 4000 internationals, and 1000 ethnicity-unknown US residents. But again that is only one way to look at things.
Other than that, though, I would note Madison is a legendary college town for a reason, and most people I know who went to Wisconsin have loved it. Add in an excellent engineering program (with a lot of different fields and subfields) and apparently a very competitive cost, and to me that sounds like a very enviable option.
Michigan is public. OOS students are milking cows. No merit is a norm. Do not bother to show Wisconsin offer.
Michigan won’t match another offer. They don’t need to.
Anyway, I am a regular on the Michigan thread. So yes, I am Rah, Rah Michigan and we paid over 4 years an extra $100,000. He could of got the same degree from UIUC or Purdue for lots less. But we had enough 529 money and paid the rest out of active income. But, I sure would like to have an extra $100,000 now. But we don’t have any loans.
Wisconsin program is great. If you got merit you would be foolish not to take it. Just make sure you are in the program you signed up for.
The goal here is to be an engineer. So then, let him do that. My kids would never want me to go into debt. My friend lost her job after 23 years at a major company and she has two kids at OOS schools at $70,00/each /yearly. She wasn’t planning on this happening.
So can’t tell you what to do but never go into debt for schooling when there are better options.
My son graduated engineering at Michigan. His job has kids from OSU, Georgia Tech, Illinois, University of Cincinnati, Penn State and some schools we never heard of. He is working internationally and they have engineers from different countries. They are all smart engineers regardless where they came from.
Congrats to your son. He did awesome!
What is the limit without parent loans (student loan limited to $5.5k first year)?
What is the net price of each school?
most people lump Wisc and Mich together for a reason. Yes Mich is a notch above in terms of prestige, but Wisc is no slouch and is highly respected. Madison is cool, the lake is beautiful. Mich would not be worth paying a lot more, unless the goal is IB and Wall Street maybe.
I’m confused. How much in loans do you parents think you would be taking?
If you were already going to take out loans to get to 60K and Michigan is >15k more than that even, it doesn’t seem to meet your financial criteria. With Wisconsin right up there and more affordable, that would make it a difficult decision.
I do get the struggle. D24 had much more affordable choices in her acceptances, but in the end her top choice happened to be the most expensive one (that we the parents hadn’t already eliminated due to higher cost, ngl it wasn’t an enjoyable parenting decision).
It’s not ALL about money, but you have to draw the financial line somewhere, and that’s going to be a personal decision. For me, with Wisconsin being so similar in so many aspects to Michigan, I wouldn’t want to go even deeper into loans to make that happen.
Have you compared the interest rates and fees, etc. those monthly payments add up FAST for parent loans. An extra 15k a year for 4 years in loans turns into over $700 a month at the peak of it (assuming a 10 year repayment and the current 8.05% Direct PLUS loan interest rate, not sure what it will be for '24-'25 school year).
I will go against conventional wisdom here. Go with stonybrook which is comparable to wisconsin for engineering. Negotiate a better merit award there. Read somehere they got a huge endowment from an alumni.
That’s a fine option too. Seemed that the student wanted Michigan and yet Wisconsin is a sub.
Stony is a heavily Asian population - not sure of the desired diversity.
Nothing wrong with the in state low cost public - whether SB, Bing, Buff - for engineering, it’s likely a better ROI but the family is willing to spend more.
But how much - is up to them - but I certainly wouldn’t take on debt - but again, everyone is different.
But going in-state is frankly very good advice.
It really is kind of the UC Irvine of the East, isn’t it?
OP, if it came down to UW or Bing, which would he pick of those two?
I understand concern about housing challenges, but if a school is the most affordable choice, you then have more money to throw at solving housing challenges.
All are more than fine academically, for engineering.
Sorry he’s not excited about anything but the unaffordable choice(s). 