Please help me make a college decision [Amherst, Brown, Yale, Georgetown, all full ride, nontraditional transfer, international relations]

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HELP! I am in a very blessed position where I have to choose between 4 wonderful colleges and I truly do not know what to do. The first deadline for admissions decision is May 14th. So I don’t have a lot of time. I am a 26 year old nontraditional student who is transferring to finish a degree in international relations. All of these schools I’m about to talk about are ranked in the top 40 (though 3 out of 4 are ranked top 15) in IR. Being older now, I know exactly what I want. I want to finish my bachelors, go on to grad school and work in national security. All of the schools that I’m about to mention have offered me full rides so money is not an issue. Here we go…

My first offer was Amherst College. I did not even know about this school at first but my girlfriend made me apply. Boy, am I glad I did. Being less than 2,000 students and having no grad school, the idea of developing close relationships with professors and having one on one experience really excites me. I want to get involved in research right away and have ample opportunities for internships. Which, I feel like could both be really easy here due to the undergrad focus and apparently really strong LOAB career center and alumni network. Now get this, I just happened to email the head of the police sci department (they only have polo sci and offer an IR certificate, this is why they ranked around 40th for IR) and this guy offers to jump on a call with me. We talk for over an hour and he went on and on about all of the opportunities I could have. Even tells me a story to show how strong the alumni network is with a recalling of a student who wanted to be an astronaut and by the end of the day this guy connected him with 3 Amherst alumni who worked in NASA! I also emailed the chair of the French department, as I wanna study French, and she sends me 2 novel emails about the opportunities and what I should be doing to prepare, etc. Like what other Professors would be talking to me like this at any other school? I realize the who alumni network strength might be a little inflated but then again maybe not since it is so small. I don’t mind the rural setting either because I grew up on a farm in the Midwest. Another big thing is they accepted all of my transfer credits. So I would be starting as a second semester sophomore. (Though I’m going to confirm this. Due to me being older and having a career I’ve only been able to take online asynchronous classes, and I’m coming to find out that most schools have a big deal with this for some reason and won’t accept them. I mean I get it I guess, but geez what else are working professionals supposed to do?) Still, they gave me a credit evaluation list with my acceptance and that means a lot. Although, I really wouldn’t care if I did have to start completely over as a freshman because what’s another year if I really love the school and I’m taking advantage of the opportunity. They also put me in contact with other transfers and they rave about the school. Say if they need money its given, if they do an internship that isn’t paid that Amherst will give them a stipend, that they really work to find your opportunities, will fund your research, etc. Plus, my aid would cover semesters abroad too (though this may be normal idk). The only downfalls I can think of is that it’s so small I just don’t want to feel weird being older and being around immature 18 year olds. Like it might be hard to escape vs a bigger school, and I would rather live in a bigger city though this isn’t a deal breaker. I also don’t like that practically no one has heard of it, but that’s stupid I know. I’m just giving up a really cool career and have had a lot of success that I would almost rather say a cool known name for my future college than Amherst if someone asks me, but that’s superficial I know.

Next, is Brown. I was accepted into the Brown RUE program for older nontraditionals and considering they only take about 10 I’m more than honored. All paid for as well. Like Amherst, Brown has an open curriculum that really attracts me. Like no more math? Yes! They also have a pass/no pass policy that you can take with every class, but since I wanna go to grad school I’m guessing I shouldn’t do this. It’s a known name, and I’m sure the alumni network is great. I just worry about being another number and not getting the individualized focus. Though I do hear that Brown is undergrad focused so I might be wrong. Providence looks like an amazing city and I could see myself thriving there. It would also be really cool to say I go to an Ivy. There’s some strong research coming out of there and it certainly could open up some amazing doors. I hear the students are very relaxed, welcoming, and accepting. I also hear that grade inflation is a thing and I like the sound of that. However, I don’t think most or any of my credits would transfer over due to their online nature (and this could still be the case with Amherst too despite my letter I need to double check) but I might have to start from scratch. Yet, again, is this even a problem? Like I get to take in an Ivy League university for 4 years so I should stop complaining? I’m not sure about research or internship placements, but I’ve connected with some RUE students on Reddit and they all seemed to love it. There seems to be something special here and the campus is beautiful.

Then we have Yale. I was accepted into the Eli Whitney Program and that is like a dream. For a small town farm boy to say I got into Yale is literally a dream come true. Someone recently gave me advice about picking a school and said, “if you’re in a bar 7 years from now and someone asks you where you went to college, where are you going to be the most proud of?” Albeit, this may be terrible advice, but I would be forever proud to say Yale. I feel like the name alone would open up so many doors and would also just be so inspiring for other young people in the community I grew up in who face similar economic and family issues as I did. Their undergrads program for IR is top 5 in the world, but again I would probably have to compete with grads for research and since its bigger I worry about getting lost in the mix and possibly becoming another number. I hear grade inflation is definitely a thing here as well and that excites me, and if there is something you’re struggling with there’s apparently a ton of resources to help you get on par. This is all paid for as well. One of the things I don’t like is as an Eli Whitney student you’re a little more separated from the rest of the regular students. Mostly because everyone lives in residential colleges but Elis can’t, so you have to live in off campus housing. I also hear that New Haven is not a good city and can be dangerous, but I lived in Los Angeles for 7 years after high school and I’m pretty sure it can’t get much worse than that haha. I would pretty certainly be starting as a freshman again (haven’t gotten confirmation but after going online to see their policies I can say this with confidence), and again I ask would it even matter if I’m getting a Yale education. Like the Brown RUE program, this is for nontraditionals but it’s still the same exact Yale degree and classes as any other student. While doing the final seminars, the current Elis on the zoom seemed, a little sad? I don’t know it was hard to explain but something I definitely noticed. Just not sure how much individual attention I’d get to set me up for success and wonder if it’s more of a program to try and sound more diverse, but again I truly have no idea. It is Yale and my gosh what a cool thing that would be to say.

Finally, there’s Georgetown. My oh my do I love Georgetown. DC is my favorite city in the U.S. and my sister lives there right now so that would be cool to be by her. I LOVE DC, and when I started my college journey of transferring earlier this year Georgetown was always number one on the list. I mean, I bought hats and shirts from the campus store and began wearing them around DC just so I could start manifesting being a student. This is the only campus I’ve been to out of all 4 and it is so inspiring to me (though others may be even more so!) Ideally, I’ll visit the rest next week before making a decision, but also I’m trying to be fiscally responsible so I don’t know if I’ll get to. In my opinion, as well as many others, Georgetown is the best school in the world to study International Relations. Plus, I would have access to internship opportunities in my specific field of study year round due to all the governmental and private IR organizations in DC. I could network and truly be set up for success. I’m not sure how many credits of mine would transfer, but I’ve talked to current students who said that they are flexible and willing to work with me. I haven’t actually been accepted into Georgetown yet, but I asked for an early decision since I have to decided and they said it was likely, so please keep that in mind in case you start wondering “if you love Georgetown this much why are you making a post?”. Still, I’m not sure how much access I will have to Professors, and it’s very likely it could be another one of those “just another number” kind of things. Research is probably more focused on grad students, but I do hear that beyond intro classes Professors mostly teach the courses and not TAs. I am not wavering that national security is what I want to do and this is the best school and location for it. I just wonder if going to an IVY league is a no brainer if you have the option and its free, and then try to go to Georgetown for grad to capitalize on having an alumni connection with both?

Please help me decide. I’m truly sorry for the novel of a post but I wanted to get it all out there so you can help me make an informed decision. I plead you, spare me the “only YOU can make the decision blah blah,” I know, and you’re right. I just am really overwhelmed and confused by 4 incredible options and yet each are so different in their own respect. Please also treat Georgetown as a concrete yes because they basically said so and then work your list down from there. Based on everything I said and my desires, I would really appreciate if you gave me your thoughts and rankings 1-4 and explained why. I want to take advantage of something that will set me up for high grad school placements, a place that will give me ample opportunities when it comes to summer or winter experiences, a STRONG alumni network, and somewhere that wants to see and will help me succeed. Not just another number… I’m 26 and I don’t have times for the “this is a cool party school yeah let’s go here.” I’m serious about my education and what I want to study. THANK YOU SO MUCH IN ADVANCE!!!

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Guess what - only you can decide. Sorry - but it’s true.

These are four great and different schools - with three urban and one not.

What can you afford?

What matters to you?

There’s no wrong answer here - four students could choose four different schools.

I’ll tell you this - rank for IR - doesn’t matter (IMHO). My kid had an internship at a top think tank - and goes to a school a zillion levels below. So don’t worry about top 15 or #40 - it’s hooey - especially in Poli Sci.

Rather than look at four at once - look at two.

Amherst is the smallest (even though you can take classes at neighboring UMass and others in the Consortium). Put it up vs. Brown - which is in the city and bigger.

If just these two - which would you pick?

After you pick one, the match that one vs another.

Sometimes going 1x1 is easier than 4 at once.

But think affordability and then desire.

Your goals:

  1. Strong grad school placements - these four and many more. The same with professor access - that’s up to you!! If you make the effort, it will happen.

  2. Summer or Winter experiences - these four and many more - I assume you mean internships and study abroads for Winter which you might have to do through other schools. Not all schools offer January terms.

  3. Somewhere with a strong alumni network - likely these four.

  4. A place that wants you to succeed? Pick any school in America

So this goes back to - what can you afford - and then where you feel comfortable?

If your words are true, Gtown would be your pick - but you’re not in - so you really are down to three because you’re not in at Gtown and if you get in, it moves to the top. I’m not saying it’s the best school - but you’ve said it’s the dream.

You know if there were four kids with your four schools, each of the four could pick a different one - and no one would question it.

Good luck.

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Hi, all 4 thankfully gave me full rides and as far as generally affordability I will be able to live comfortably at any of them. I do love Gtown but its also the only one I’ve ever been around, and I’m it sure that it could open the same doors as say the ivys or give me the type of attention as say Amherst. I understand that it is truly up to me and only I can decide but I would love to hear your thoughts and rankings say, if it were up to you haha. Just a fun little game to see how everyone’s thinking. And no I’m not going to make a decision based on a consensus of everyone’s thoughts, but I would like to see how each individual person chooses and ranks based on the information I’ve included. Thanks for the response :slight_smile:

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You are 26 years old and I would suggest you take into consideration a location/school where you will be able to meet similar age peers outside of academics, as a “typical” undergrad experience is not the right fit for you.

I don’t know enough about these programs and if they offer you the opportunity to be with students your age/life experiences.

Visiting will help you decide - from your post it sounds like Georgetown is the one to beat - great location, family near by and a large community of professional young adults with social opportunities outside of campus too.

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This! As you are a 26 year old, I would be shocked if you found it fun and rewarding to be hanging out with 18 year olds. I speak from personal experience: When I went to grad school I was about a decade older than the vast majority of my classmates. I had a great experience being in the classroom with them, joining study groups with them, collaborating on projects with them, etc. But the last thing I wanted to do was hang out with them socially and I’m sure the same was true in reverse! You are not a decade older than your classmates, but almost, and I’d guess the age difference would feel even greater when comparing a 26 year old adult with an 18 year old who may be away from home for the first time in their lives and may never have shouldered any of the life responsibilities you have surely had to.

For this reason, and because all four of your choices are stellar options which will give you an exceptional education and opportunities, I would choose based on your ability to find community and friendships among your age group. I would definitely rule out Amherst for this reason. I would be hesitant about Yale - there are lots of graduate students so this could work, but you’d be largely confined to finding friendships among grad students given New Haven’s small size for a city (and being an undergrad hanging out with grad students might not always feel the most comfortable). That leaves Brown and Georgetown. I am not familiar with Brown and have never been to Providence but I would assume the city would have a vibrant life for young adults? And then Georgetown… the obvious choice on all dimensions! I hope you get in! :crossed_fingers:

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The programs and Brown and Yale are specifically designed for nontraditional students. But I still wonder if I would feel an age gap with the rest of the student body.

Yes, Georgetown would be awesome. But I wonder if giving up an Ivy or the intimate experience would be stupid?

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Your schools, interests and age are similar in some ways to those of this earlier OP, so the topic may be worth reading: Yale vs Princeton vs Stanford, Brown vs UPenn vs Columbia [political science, pre-law]. With respect to a difference of which you should be aware, this student planned to pursue theatre along with political science.

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Assuming it’s truly an option, go to Georgetown. Not only does it sound like it’s your true first choice, but your school year internship opportunities will be much greater than the others. DC is an amazing city, especially for the field in which you want to work. Yes, it’s true that people from many schools (all 4 of your choices) are able to get into good grad schools, get good jobs and internships, etc. But the year round opportunities over the next four years will unequivocally be better at Georgetown. There are just SO MANY opportunities in your desired field in DC. And many many DC firms and agencies will appreciate your maturity over your 18 year old classmates. They are all great options…but my vote is Georgetown all the way! Good luck!

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I agree with you 100%. However, if I do not get accepted to Georgetown for whatever reason, what would you suggest then?

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Of course you’ll feel an age gap - because there will be one. And it might be more distinct at Amherst whereas the others are surrounded by society.

Guess what - use your age to your advantage - to add value to discussions. If you are concerned with your age, then it’s unfair to everyone. My daughter had a 70 year old in her class last year and said added a lot of value.

If you like/want the city, Amherst is the easy one to cull.

So then it’s Brown or Yale - and as a transfer, I’m not sure how much the open curriculum is in play.

Since Gtown is the favorite, you needn’t rank that - its’ self ranked - but as you’re not in, even though you say you will be, if it were me I’d choose from Brown/Yale - because there is city and access to bigger city from both.

But - again, we are not you.

I can analyze on paper but what’s good for me isn’t necessarily good for you.

Here’s the other thing to remember.

You are trying to find the right choice.

There may be 2, 3 or 4 right choices!!! In that case, pick one and roll!! It’ll work out great!!

PS - I’m not sure how you can say all four gave you full rides when you’re not even in at all four. You may think you will be- but until you are, you’re not and you won’t know the offer as I don’t believe Gtown provides in advance but perhaps you’re getting from the NPC.

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So I went to Yale for college and I want to emphasize that there really is nothing at all special about the Ivy league. It is just a sports league, and it happens all the colleges in that league are interesting colleges with their respective pros and cons. But those are not the only interesting colleges in the US. And in fact being in that sports league really adds nothing of significance to their individual pros and cons, and not being in that sports league does not detract from the comparable pros of other colleges.

I similarly want to emphasize that the person sitting in a bar years from now trying to impress people with where they went to college is a tool who no one is going to like.

OK, so I would completely put any thoughts like that out of your mind. It doesn’t matter which of these colleges are in that sports league, it doesn’t matter what some random strangers will think in the future, just pick the college where you think you will get the best combination of an education, a college experience, and opportunities for the future based on that specific institution’s pros and cons.

Given that, it sounded to me like your clear favorite would be Georgetown, which is fine. It sounds like your other strong possibility is Amherst, which is also fine. Again, if you actually had particularly strong reasons to like Yale or Brown besides their membership in a sports league or your imaginary bar conversations, that would also be fine, but I did not see a lot like that.

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I note New Haven has a population of about 135K city, Providence about 190K. I don’t necessarily think this is actually a huge difference in practical terms.

Amherst, MA of course is not in a city, it only has about 39K residents. But the area it is in is not exactly deeply rural either. Here is actually a cool satellite photo of what is known as the Pioneer Valley, and you can see how it is pretty densely developed along the Connecticut River:

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Springfield is toward the bottom (the “Lower” Pioneer Valley) and the Northhampton-Amherst area is toward the top (the “Upper” Pioneer Valley). It is about a 35 minutes drive from Amherst to Springfield.

Springfield, by the way, has a city population of about 156K, so right in between New Haven and Providence. Finally, I also note Amherst College shares the town of Amherst with UMass-Amherst, which has about 7900 postgrad students.

OK, so I think a post-college young adult looking for things to do could really be happy in any of these areas, it just depends on what they most like doing on a regular basis. Brown or Yale are going to be right in a city where you can walk or use public transit conveniently, but Amherst the town is a decent college town itself (again with lots of postgrads thanks to UMass), and then it is going to be a short drive away from tons of different sorts of amenities and attractions in the Pioneer Valley more broadly.

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Good points regarding population sizes. I am intimately familiar with Amherst, New Haven, and DC. If I were 26, I’d want to be in DC, not the town of Amherst. But you’re right - maybe OP would prefer the small town of Amherst.

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Sounds like the Whitney program would cater to more students your own age. I worry about the Georgetown neighborhood being a very expensive place to see and be seen on one’s own.

But then again, Georgetown may just be another example of…
“The best college is one where you don’t fit in” - College Search & Selection - College Confidential Forums :smile:

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Did I miss something, what exactly are you going to college to study? That could help in the decision.

I LOVE DC, too!

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Yeah, if you are into city life, DC is great. So much to do, some of it even free!

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I went to Brown. I think you would find a great peer community there between the other RUE students and perhaps the grad student population. Providence is a fantastic city and a great place to spend young adulthood. And International Relations is very strong there.

Of course, your other options have tremendous strengths, too. I agree with what others are saying about Amherst - that it might feel too small for a nontraditional student looking for a social peer group. But Yale and Georgetown offer so many advantages. Just thought I’d throw in my own insight about Brown.

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If you don’t get in to Georgetown I’d pick Yale. And I say this as someone who went to Brown (admittedly before Providence was very cool).

The open curriculum and S/NC option at Brown are overrated and sometimes, to a degree, misunderstood. With regard to open curriculum, I’ve found that in most cases the concentration requirements at Brown are not dissimilar to requirements elsewhere and you only “gain” a small amount of additional freedom with no general core requirements. True you won’t have to take math as a social science major but lots of people in social sciences at top universities have not math requirements since they have mostly already taken Calculus (just an example). And the S/NC option is specifically up to the professor. Many actively discourage students from taking their classes S/NC and a few prohibit it. In addition, as you noted, if you intend to consider grad school (most do) wide use of S/NC is not recommended. In my entire four years there I took exactly one class S/NC, and it was only offered that way.

Having said that, it’s a GREAT school and I loved it. I just think Yale has a little more cachet in IR and I think the Eli Whitney program sounds great!

I really think you can’t go wrong with any of your choices, but my rank would be:

  1. Georgetown (if you get in)
  2. Yale
  3. Brown
  4. Amherst
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If it were me, I would forget about any university that has not yet sent me an acceptance as of May. If you get an acceptance at some point in the future you can revisit your decision. However, for now I think that I would just forget about it and instead compare your other three choices (all of which are EXCELLENT). I do understand that an acceptance off a waitlist does sometimes happen and can come in late. This might work out. I just would not expect it until I see it. Also, of course Georgetown will still be there when you are applying to graduate schools.

I like Amherst College a lot, and like its location (which I have visited a few times). The problem that I see is that you are 26 years old, and Amherst does not have graduate students. This suggests that you are going to be surrounded by students who are a lot younger than you are.

In contrast, both Yale and Brown have plenty of graduate students. Yale has more graduate students than undergraduate students. This means that there will at least be plenty of students who are in their mid 20’s on campus, and a few who are older. Perhaps your undergraduate classes will mostly be younger students, but there will be some older students in your classes, and will be plenty of students in your age group all over the campus and in the area.

This issue of course is not as important compared to academics. But both Yale and Brown are excellent with regard to academics.

Personally I think that I would put Yale first, followed by Brown, and then Amherst. I would reconsider Georgetown if and only if you get an affordable acceptance in hand.

But you are comparing excellent with excellent with excellent (and if Georgetown comes in, with a fourth excellent), so if you rank them in the exact opposite order that would be fine also.

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Yale, Brown, Georgetown and Amherst - in that order.

This is the order I would pay as a parent (We did pay for two kids for 8 years each).

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