Please help me make a college decision [Amherst, Brown, Yale, Georgetown, all full ride, nontraditional transfer, international relations]

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41

I note unless things have changed, Amherst does not require non-traditional transfer students (which I believe the OP would qualify as) to live on-campus, and if they do live on campus they are placed into Seligman (renovated 2013) along with other transfer students. And if you are 25 or older you have priority for singles in Seligman.

Just pointing out that Amherst does not in fact expect non-traditional transfer students to just go to Amherst like a traditional first-year. And if Amherst seemed like the best fit academically, I personally would not hesitate.

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42

You are right on this. Out of curiosity why Amherst over the others when everyone else is placing it last?

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So to the extent people are placing Amherst last because they don’t think a non-traditional transfer student would like it, I personally suspect that is not a valid assumption. Again, it is in a great area overall with tons to do, and Amherst, MA itself is a nice college town which also hosts a full research university with plenty of postgrads.

So Amherst the college would not define the limits of your non-academic life. It would be where you would be doing your academic work, but the rest would be up to you.

Otherwise, I am just going off what you have said.

I totally get the appeal of Georgetown given your interests, it could not be more plugged into that IR/NatSec world, so if that is your #1 choice if actually admitted, makes sense to me.

If you don’t get admitted to Georgetown then what should be your #2? Well, as you point out you would have to spend less time at Amherst, and specifically would not have to do a bunch of intro classes unrelated to your interests to graduate, instead you could go straight to taking the higher-level classes that interested you. Technically Brown would allow that too, but they are really going to encourage you to explore anyway.

Of course if you actually really wanted that full four-year general education before you went on to grad school, you could choose Yale or Brown. But it doesn’t seem to me like you do, so why choose them over Amherst?

Finally, Amherst is not somehow less suitable for grad school placement than Yale or Brown. You seemed originally concerned that Yale and Brown being Ivies was a big deal, but it really is not. So while they are among the many good choices for people with your interests, they are not somehow radically better than Amherst! Indeed, if you go on to a grad program, no one will particularly care where you went to college.

So my feeling is other people are treating this like a normal college choice question, except you are older. But I think you have an opportunity here to really finish college on your own terms, then go on to grad school on your own terms. And when I think about your options and what YOU want to do, it seems clear your favorite option is Georgetown, but your second favorite is Amherst and then a quick move on to grad school.

And that makes perfect sense to me.

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44

I don’t disagree with much of your post. Except that professionals who work in Nat Sec/IR can have a foreign service background, CS/Math, strategic languages, law, policy, economics-- even accounting (valuable for both domestic intelligence and Interpol type roles). So unless the OP has already been exposed to 5 or 8 of these disciplines, spending four years in college is likely going to make the grad school choice easier, not harder. The folks at the Hague prosecuting war criminals- law school. The folks at the CIA connecting the dots on financial transfers between North Korea and Iraq-- econ or accounting. The folks at ANY of the “three letter agencies” working on cyber security- CS majors. Art fraud-- plays a huge part in many multi-national criminal enterprise cases-- you don’t need a PhD in art history (you will call upon those experts when you need them) but you need some overall, generalist understanding. Missile defense-- we’ve got chemists and engineers. etc. You get my drift. There is no ticket to punch for Nat Sec/IR-- there are multiple routes and types of roles and professional training. So despite the OP being a mature student, four years of undergrad might in fact be a great idea professionally (a feature and not a bug).

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45

I don’t think there’s a meaningful difference in the prestige factor between Brown and Yale, honestly. The Watson Institute at Brown will provide outstanding resources and opportunities. Some may disagree with me on that, but both schools will give you the name recognition and prestige in your degree – so it really matters what you do while you’re in school more than where you go. So I would say it comes down to fit – and part of “fit” (for you) should include where you’re likely to find a peer group of older undergrads and possibly grad students. I think the RUE program gives you a built-in way to do that, at least to start, but there might be advantages to Yale, too. But if you love Brown, and the only thing tugging you to Yale is prestige, I can assure you that you won’t regret Brown. If you love Yale for reasons other than the name, they you just have to weigh factors most important to you.

As far as location is concerned – I’ve lived in Providence, of course, and loved it (this was before it got hot – it’s even nicer now). I’ve also lived near New Haven. I personally like Providence more, especially College Hill. But that’s a personal call that could go either way for you.

If you go to Brown, I would recommend using the S/NC option sparingly if you’re planning on grad school. I used it sometimes, mostly on classes that were outside my wheelhouse – and that’s really how it’s intended. No grad school is going to question a few classes taken pass/fail, but your GPA might count for less if you do it frequently.

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46

Size and reach of your future network is highest in Ivy league and Yale has the best reach among all of them. You could choose not to be in your chosen field and they will still open doors for you in finance, politics, business, law, health, and whatever else.

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47

I don’t know about Yale, but at Brown, the RUE program is supposed to start from semester 1, first year. So it’s not a matter of accepting credits - it’s just assumed that you’re going to be a Brown student for your entire college program. And if you’re getting full tuition, why not? Yale might be the same. I see this as an advantage, not a disadvantage - more education for free!

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48

With respect to prestige, I would not pay it any heed.

Yale and Brown are top private universities, Georgetown SFS is elite (assuming you are accepted…), and Amherst is a top LAC. These are all great.

I would choose based on fit and finances. It sounds like you kind of favor Amherst for the smaller class sizes, open curriculum, general emphasis on undergrads, prof relationships, etc.; Yale mainly for the name; Brown for the name and open curriculum; and Georgetown for the great IR program and DC environment.

I would disregard name entirely, as these are all great options. To me, it sounds like Amherst – and I imagine you’d be able to hang out with people your age, around town or at UMass (where there are plenty of grad students…) – and Georgetown really are 1 and 2 based on fit. And you are only admitted to one of them.

But my take is based on my limited knowledge of what you want out of your experience, so I’ll just say, generally: rate them according to your preferences, and choose accordingly, and you cannot make a mistake. All are excellent – go to the one you like the best.

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49

In certain professions, prestige can be an important factor early in one’s career. The good news is that all of your options offer sufficient prestige.

Nonetheless, I still think that being a 26 year old sophomore at a small LAC will be an issue both socially and academically. In my opinion, your development will be enhanced in a more mature environment.

On the other hand, Amherst College is an attractive option if you want to complete your undergraduate degree ASAP since you will start with advanced standing.

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Great options, I am curious, what year are you transferring into and where did you go before if applicable? Are your full-rides merit, needs based or a combo of both?
I would think it would be a lot tougher at 26 to secure these offers, but congrats!

But again, my vote is G-Town but go with your gut for sure!

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51

The schools that have admitted the OP do not offer merit scholarships to anyone. So the financial aid received is need-based.

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52

As I understand it, though, the OP has been doing an online college. The question is whether they need another four years in top of that, or whether another 2.5 will do.

53

This is a good point. One daughter attended a small “primarily undergraduate” university (basically the Canadian equivalent of a liberal arts college) and she did benefit significantly from exactly this. Not having to compete with graduate students for research opportunities can help a lot.

To me this seems like a reasonable request. I think that you are going to need to say “yes” to some school before your options time out. At a minimum this would mean losing your deposit if Georgetown later admitted you and you decided to go there.

On the other hand, losing a deposit is not that bad compared to the overall cost of attending four years of university.

In terms of grad school admissions, I think that every school that you are considering is superb. Specifically graduate school admissions will know how strong Amherst College is (as well as Brown and Yale of course).

It sounds like you would graduate three semesters earlier, or at least one year earlier, from Amherst compared to the other schools. This is also a big deal.

Okay, I am back to undecided, and you might be talking me back into liking Amherst College.

This is not an easy decision. Fortunately it is not easy because all of these schools are excellent.

One thing that I might want to emphasize: Comparing the three schools from which you already have affordable offers, they are all excellent. You cannot go wrong with any of them. People who are commenting, including me, can give an opinion. However, that does not mean that our opinion is right or that you should listen to us. Think about whether any of our arguments or comments make sense, then you should do what you think is right. Whatever you decide in the end you will be making a great choice.

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54

This is true with Brown but you still have the option to transfer the credits over whenever you want. It just allows you to explore more before deciding what you want to study. So credits are still important.

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How is Brown’s alumni network? Is it super accessible and strong or just kinda meh?

56

You’re going to grad school.

Who cares?

You are nitpicking over four unbelievably great schools.

Only you can say which is right for you.

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57

The Brown alumni network is deep, well connected and committed and also affords access to other elite schools and networks.

This seems to apply in numerous fields as evidenced by my kids friends, teammates and classmates experienced. Those that haven’t attended or experienced the benefits of a strong alumni network won’t appreciate its value, but thankfully all of your options I suspect have strong alum.

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58

Very strong. But it will be equally strong for every school you’re considering.

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59

In the end, you’re paralyzing yourself by over analyzing.

There’s no wrong choice here.

There may be a better choice for you - but only you can decide.

They are all wonderful. But yes they are different.

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60

Because they have specific programs for nontraditional students, I would pick Brown or Yale, and let the other two go. Chose based on the city you like best, or whichever seems to have the largest support and social network for its non-traditional students.

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