Please help me with proper punishment for D

Parent Cafe
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<p>Of possible interest to ASAP, Merrymom…
Personally, I found rural driving very difficult compared to suburban. Our rural roads were very unforgiving, with no shoulders. Also there were no choices of routes, whereas now that we’re in the suburbs I can choose to take residential routes and avoid interstates. For our kids, learning to drive was a lot easier in the suburbs because we could (and did) limit them from Interstates until around 6 months after their licenses, and they could take the residential roads as an alternative. The street-lighting is better in the suburbs.</p>

<p>Our rural area only had enough money to pave the actual width of the driving lane; after that it was a ditch. Salt – who heard of salt? too expensive – so they threw sand down on the ice for traction. After winter and the refreezing that caused potholes, it was many months before these were all repaired in the boonies, so these too were cause for serious and mature attention. BUMP, and you’re off-track.</p>

<p>If anyone’s attention strayed momentarily, off went the tire into a ditch and many times cars flipped. </p>

<p>Can’t generalize about suburbs, though. I’ve just finished looking at Orange County CA by satellite imagery, and I conclude there are suburbs and then there are Suburbs! My S who has just pretty much mastered the interstates with 4 lanes across and a barrier, dropped his jaws at the spaghetti interstates and counted the lanes across. </p>

<p>So, I think there are pros and cons of ease learning to drive, rural vs. suburban, with points on both sides. In my experience, our oldstyle suburb is easier than rural/mountain/snowland…but we don’t really live in a SUBURB like Orange.</p>

<p>I was stunned my eldest could get his license in the rural village without demonstrating he could go onto an Interstate, which is why we parents imposed a graduated program for using the interstates. You still have to be their teachers for 6 months after getting the license. </p>

<p>I asked the driving teachers, in both the suburb and rural homes, why they didn’t give lessons on the Interstate ramps. The answer was the same: we teach them what they need to know to pass the licensing test. If you want to learn about Interstates, we’ll teach that too but it’s a separate lesson for more money. At that point, we told the kids to go ahead and get their license and we’d teach them Interstate stuff.</p>

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There is no town in America that tests or keeps data on IQ. None. Your statement has as much validity as claiming the average resident of any given town has the soul of a poet. Or the average resident is 5’11’. Or the average resident prefers cheddar cheese to havarti.</p>

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<p>jmmom - why are you so upset by my experiences and opinions? Is this not a free forum to share ideas? The world would be terribly boring if we all thought alike.</p>

<p>Why is it so threatening that I feel the law punishing the child with a ticket is enough punishment? That is my opinion based on much experience.</p>

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<p>Sorry Sticker Shock, I respectfully disagree.</p>

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<p>Merrymom:</p>

<p>I do not “assume” anything about my community since no one has bothered to test IQs for the community as a whole. I don’t even know what my kids’ IQ is. And frankly, I don’t care. It’s not even relevant to the issue. Intelligence is a totally separate issue from respect for the law and respect for parental rules.</p>

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<p>However, Sticker Shock, I suppose I could be wrong. I don’t think I am, but let’s acknowledge I am. It doesn’t make me a ■■■■■.</p>

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<p>Merry, I for one really want to hear all opinions. It is a wake up call for me to find out how other parents think at times. It helps me fine tune the rules in my own house. </p>

<p>I don’t think anyone is saying not to share your opinions. I think what they ARE saying is that your opinions/assumptions about norms are shocking to many of us.</p>

<p>In rural areas I think there is generally more NEED, on the part of the parent, for kids to drive as young as possible. Therefore, parents find it much easier to take away say money or clothing than driving rights. This is for their convenience and does their children no favor.</p>

<p>Your comment about having the chance to punish again shows me you have little comprehension of what’s really being said here. Punishing is hard, I know few parents who enjoy it. Thank the lord most do it when they need to though, it would be so much easier not to.</p>

<p>All of us think our kids are great, whole and of sound character until they prove otherwise. When they show us beginning signs of not respecting the laws of society, we want to jump on it and have it be a character building lesson of import. We’re talking about teens, they’re still learning.</p>

<p>What a mess our communities would be if all kids thought it was normal to get several tickets. We would have dangerous drivers on the road and a court system that could never catch up. </p>

<p>For you to imply it is heavy handed parenting to take decisive actions to stop such kids from driving until mature enough is shocking to me anyway.</p>

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<p>Marite, I felt it was relevant to my response to Jeepmom. If you don’t, fine.</p>

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<p>the above is from the washington state licensing site</p>

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<p>I am aware of it Mary. Shocking doesn’t mean I am wrong.</p>

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<p>I’m not “upset by your experiences and opinions.” I vehemently disagree with your representation of what is normal and to be expected if one has teens driving in a rural area. </p>

<p>I do agree with you that one year of no driving privileges is overkill. I have always believed that punishments which extend on and on and on lose their meaning and effectiveness.</p>

<p>I hold by my strong disagreement with your characterization of typical rural experience. I also stand by my opinion that the parent with extensive experience with his or her teens’ moving violations and failure to comply with the law has a quantity of experience, but not necessarily any wisdom on how to handle the first violation. I would think, quite to the contrary, that the best handling of that first violation is the one which tends to diminish the chance of reoccurence.</p>

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<p>I vote for everyone considering giving Merrymom a pass because there aren’t yet too many posts to her credit and we’re just getting to know her. She’s trying now to defend herself against 6 people at once. I can say I’m sure she’s a darned fast typist. Lay off, is my thought. I disagree with her position on this matter, too, but she’s new and has a good sense of humor. I look forward to other threads and other topics where she’ll lift our spirits a lot. She has much experience, as we all do. Over and out…</p>

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<p>merrymom- the period of time between the ticket and the court date can sometimes be weeks. You don’t think any consequences from the parents are appropriate. So I assume the kid is still driving, until that court date.
If my kid (and by extension, anyone else’s kid) had the poor judgement to ignore the law and drive her friends around because she didn’t think it mattered that much and she wanted to, I’d feel that she was a danger on the road, to herself and to others. A danger and a threat. Kids who can’t obey the law are dangerous to me personally, and to my kids who may be in their path.
My mom was in an accident recently where three teenage boys ran into her car - she’s 78 years old, and hasn’t felt too well since.
We all have a stake in the behavior of all our children.
I think people react to this topic because we all have seen kids we care about killed or maimed in cars. It happens to hit a nerve.</p>

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<p>One of my friend’s sons got a speeding ticket in MA (while the less strict junior operator’s license law was in effect). He was driving after mindnight (illegal) with a friend in the front seat & no adult driver in the car (also illegal). She took the attitude of mini and merrymom, and sought to have the judge mete out the penalty. She refused to allow the son’s attorney to plea bargain. From the time of the ticket until trial was 18 months. Guess what? The judge spoke to the son, saw “remorse” and let him go. No penalty at all. Is this reasonable? I don’t think so.</p>

<p>(Oh, and in the meantime, son got 2 more speeding tickets, which ultimately resulted in a suspended license.)</p>

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<p>My NH nephew lost his license for speeding twice. The State did it, so his parents didn’t have to. It was a major inconvenience as they had found it very useful for him to drive his siblings to various afterschool things.</p>

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<p>"(Oh, and in the meantime, son got 2 more speeding tickets, which ultimately resulted in a suspended license.)</p>

<p>So they did suspend his license; prior to that, the parents trusted him so much they let him use the car, or paid the insurance, right? It seems to me that it is the parents who need the re-education camp.</p>

<p>“My NH nephew lost his license for speeding twice. The State did it, so his parents didn’t have to. It was a major inconvenience as they had found it very useful for him to drive his siblings to various afterschool things.”</p>

<p>Let’s hear it for the government doing things right!</p>

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<p>Well, curiosity got the best of me, so I called my State Farm agent. According to him, with one infraction your rates should have gone up for 3 years. 2 tickets or accidents in a 3 year period and they would try to drop you plus you pay much higher “high risk driver” rates.
He said he does not often see more than 2 driving infractions because in his experience, most parents will not let the teen keep driving.</p>

<p>I feel a little safer now.</p>

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<p>Paying3tuitions, as another poster said, this effects all of us. Showing outrage here is not unreasonable.</p>

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<p>^^^^(Post #217) Fits what I have always been told re accidents/tickets and insurance rates and insurability. I doubt that merrymom can provide validation that State Farm would continue, with no rate change, a teen (or adult) with the kind of driving record merrymom describes.</p>

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<p>I agree with Allmusic, post 199. </p>

<p>I also agree with A.S.A.P., I think it was, who said long ago that it appears to be a matter of readiness (which can include immaturity–giving into peer pressure is a sign of this, imo). I personally feel that being given control of an automobile the day one turns 16 is way too young for any kid. (No offense to the OP–just my personal opinion.) With my older son (now 21) I didn’t push the issue of driving (other than a picture of a car on his b’day cake), and (rather slyly at times) just didn’t make a whole lot of time to teach him. During his junior year, he was more than busy with musical theater, bands, etc. in addition to school work, to take any time to practice driving. He got his license when he was 17-1/2.</p>

<p>My younger one has had his permit for a year now and has clocked a grand total of 5 hours learning with me! I think he too subconsciously feels he’s not ready. Again, I’m sure not pushing. School will start up soon and he’ll be WAY too busy to worry about driving. I predict he’ll get it probably late next spring, when he’ll be a little over 17-1/2. Fine with me.</p>

<p>In both these cases, I was and am happy to continue driving them and their friends places. My older son has never had a ticket of any kind. The other thing we’ve done is to never let them see us get behind the wheel of a car after even one beer. I know they both think that to do this would be the ultimate in human evil!</p>

<p>If the OP’s daughter were mine, I would take away the keys for six months (in addition to having her pay the ticket, of course). No big deal–just a “look, you’re obviously not ready.” School is starting up soon and she’ll be busy. After Christmas she can drive again, and she will have learned a huge lesson.</p>

<p>Oddly enough, it seemed to be the mothers of other kids that seemed to have a problem with my approach. More than a few asked “how come **** doesn’t have his license yet?” :slight_smile: Oh well, my 2 cents.</p>