Please help, opinions needed. UIUC CS [$40k] vs Raikes School at UNL (CS + Business) [$5-10k]

this!

I live on east coast and had to think hard about what UNL stood for…(I, of course, had heard of U of Nebraska, but not familiar with the UNL acronym and know nothing about its CS or business programs). For first jobs, primarily, this could be a factor. I do know, off top of my head how prestigious UIUC is for CS (and has been a LONG time -since I was in HS 30+ years ago).

I would guess (and you can look up) that where students land may be substantially different at the 2 schools, even if salaries are comparable. Also, at more “prestigious/academic” programs a fair number of kids may take high-prestige, lower pay jobs - often in research. Some may also at start-ups with lower comp / higher equity etc. I am not sure how they factor that into surveys.

I don’t think any of this means you should go to UIUC, but just something to consider.

I, personally, am surprised how many consider size/niceness of rooms as a determination. When I was looking this wasn’t even on the list of things I cared about (distance to classes was). Different people have different values and that is absolutely fine:)

Good luck!

(Above is ignoring CoA, I think that is between you and your parents if both are affordable).

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I know a fair amount about UNL. It is a perfectly respectable Midwest school with fun football games (but subpar tailgating) and a decent campus. The Haymarket area around campus is cute and steadily improving. Winters can be brutal for about 8 to 10 weeks, but it is not consistently bad, more all over the place. Tornadoes are a thing.

Here is something else you need to know:

75% of UNL students are in state, with neighboring states heavily represented. Kids come in with their friend group already established from high school. Many of them live at home or room with people they’ve been friends with since Kindergarten. (I know you said you would have a roommate already). Many of them do not willingly expand their social groups or parameters.

To note: UNL is not like UNC (for example) where the legislature had to set in state enrollment percentages because kids from all over the country want to go to UNC. UNL has huge instate enrollment because that is where Nebraska students go. I heard announcements for college enrollments at my daughter’s school for 3 years and the overwhelming majority of students (even high achieving students) go to UNL and only a handful go out of state.

While that sounds promising, the reality is different. Nebraska (the state) is an incredibly insular place. I cannot emphasize this enough. My daughter knows many kids her age who have never left the state. If you graduate from UNL, you will find a job in Lincoln or Omaha, maybe Grand Island or Kearney. Look up Grand Island and Kearney before you decide this is a good thing. More so than other state school that I know, UNL is about producing workforce graduates for Nebraska (the state). This is not a state with a lot of external growth, so they have to train their own people.

If you see a future for yourself IN NEBRASKA, then sure. If you would rather be anywhere else, then think twice. FWIW, my daughter could have gone there in state with a scholarship, and it was a non starter. (She could have gone to UN Kearney FOR FREE and we said no.) We are happily spending more to send her elsewhere.

ETA: I don’t know anything about UIUC, but the Lincoln airport is pretty much limited to United, so check out how you would get home, what there is to do for fun, so forth.

Good luck.

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You included this in your original post. Am I reading into this too much by wondering if you are a bit worried about failing? Since you posted this in February, I presume you were admitted to UIUC’s CS in Grainger in the early round. You already know admittance is very competitive so the school believes you are qualified! Don’t doubt yourself. A program that will challenge you is a good thing. Yes, some of the intro classes are very large, but there are smaller sections and TAs and course assistants are available if additional help is needed. (Course Assistants | Siebel School of Computing and Data Science | Illinois). The student body is collaborative and helpful in general.

In my opinion, trying to achieve a perfect GPA should not be the ultimate goal. Of course achieving good grades is important, but it doesn’t have to be perfect 4.0. That’s very difficult to do esp in CS or hard majors in other engineering majors. If students have a 4.0 GPA, good for them, but if they are only studying and not participating in other aspects of college life and activities, I think they are missing out on other important experiences.

[quote=“Matthew_Zhou, post:1, topic:3683975”]
The design studio is also something that is super interesting to me, basically during junior and senior year you form into a group with other Raikes Students and work with a company to solve an actual issue. Raikes faculty claims employers consider this 2 years of work experience (1 year as a junior, 1 year as a senior)

Again, I don’t know about NLS’s specifics, but you can also get this experience through various clubs at UIUC. For example, our UIUC son was involved in a software engineering club for 2 years and the group worked directly with two different companies. He is also in a Quant club that gave him exposure to trading companies. He landed an internship with one for this summer. Keep in mind that these types of clubs are competitive to join (referrals, interviews, etc.).

Other opportunities include internships and jobs through Research Park (https://researchpark.illinois.edu). Our S just completed an 6 month internship program (part-time and paid) with a national financial institution while taking 18 credit hours this past fall and spring semester. The internship had 12 students from UIUC and 12 from UMD-College Park.

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as a former Midwesterner, living for decades in California, I think UIUC has that name recognition in a positive way that UNL does not. Unless you’re a Nebraskan, at least on 1st impressions, it would be better to go to UIUC if you wanted someday to work in tech
in California.

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This times a million.

UNL impresses Nebraskans. Understand that Nebraska is a world apart from the rest of the country (in both good and bad ways.)

I would ask Raikes for the actual outcomes. Given their partner list, I’m sure the program is placing beyond the Midwest.

Surprised it’s hard to find listings.

I used this aggregator, last updated November 2024, to find out the percentage of in-state students at a few different flagships. Please note that there can be errors in third-party sources and that verifying information directly from each school’s CDS is best practice. But for my purposes, this was sufficient, and I’ve listed the schools from lowest in-state percentage to highest:

  • UVA: 68%
  • UIUC: 72%
  • UNL: 76%
  • UCLA: 79%
  • UNC: 85% (no NC public can be less than 82%)
  • UC Berkeley: 85%

The percentage of in-state students at UNL is not far from that of UIUC, and is well below some other schools that are highly coveted by out-of-state students.

I can’t speak to the level of insularity at UNL. I can, however, speak to my own experience attending a midwestern flagship which, at the time, was either 73% in-state or 67%. I was from out-of-state, and 5 of the 6 of my closest friends were from in-state. These friends did not know each other prior to arriving at the flagship (outside of attending a weekend competition for an elite college scholarship). Five of us attended grad school out-of-state (all at Top X programs). Four of us still live out-of-state, with three of us living in highly populous coastal metro areas. For friends that were further on the periphery, the same type of story holds true.

The majority of my friends were part of an elite cohort (5 of the 6 attended the scholarship weekend with 4 receiving the scholarship), but Raikes is also a pretty elite cohort (35-40 students/year). I think it would behoove OP to ask to speak to current Raikes students to see what their experience has been like in terms of making friends with like-minded students (whether they are Nebraska residents or not).

@Matthew_Zhou, if your username is a reflection of your real name, I would urge you to change it:

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As much as I agree with this conceptual idea, I don’t agree with the implications for OP.

OP - Please go talk to actual CS students who are going through internship/job search hell right now. Ideally, talk to Raikes kids as well as UIUC CS kids. Ask them how their recruiting is going (One shortcut is to look for “incoming SWE” and filter people on LinkedIn currently at both schools).

Personally, talking to a wide range of CS kids in my circle (schools include Berkeley, Waterloo, UW, Other UCs, UIUC, Some CSUs) - school name has played a much greater role this recruiting cycle given the 1000s of applicants for each role. Before you get to an interview where you can showcase your soft skills, you need to get through resume screen - a step where UIUC is going to have a greater degree of impact than Raikes.

It looks like you want to to go to Raikes, but I recommend you do more homework on outcomes before giving up UIUC. Its pretty easy to add business degree to a high quality CS education down the line. The reverse is impossible.

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With respect, you don’t live in Nebraska and never have, right? I do. Your child’s friends and classmates don’t attend UNL? Mine do. Additionally I work at another college in the same city and routinely interact with students at UNL and have many friends, coworkers, neighbors, and acquaintances with ties to UNL.

Again, respectfully, you are doing the OP a disservice. The real benefit to a website like this is being able to get anonymous first hand information about these schools, their environment, and the economic impact both in terms of expenditure and potential income.

There is no contest between UNL and UIUC. While on paper UNL’s Raikes is prestigious, there is no comparison between the two schools. UIUC is ranked #33 and UNL is ranked #152. Does the OP want to be a big fish in a small pond? If so, then UNL is the way to go. Does the OP want to be competitive nationally? Then UIUC deserves more consideration. As I said, we are willingly paying a lot more for our daughter to attend college out of state because of the ROI.

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I used this aggregator, last updated November 2024, to find out the percentage of in-state students at a few different flagships. Please note that there can be errors in third-party sources and that verifying information directly from each school’s CDS is best practice. But for my purposes, this was sufficient, and I’ve listed the schools from lowest in-state percentage to highest:

The percentage of in-state students at UNL is not far from that of UIUC, and is well below some other schools that are highly coveted by out-of-state students.

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Not only did you completely miss my point, but your comparisons are ridiculous. Are you really comparing UCLA and Cal to UNL?

The population of the entire state of Nebraska is just over 2 million people. The population of California is 39 million. Just LA and Orange Counties have a population of almost 14 million. For context, just those 2 counties have a population that is roughly equal to the population of Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma and both of the Dakotas combined.

Needless to say, Nebraska is a very rural state. Added to that, about half of the state’s population lives in the Omaha-Lincoln geographic corridor. When it is noted that 75% of UNL’s students are from Nebraska, that translates to the majority of them being from Omaha and Lincoln, a distance of about 60
miles. Compare that to the distance between San Francisco and San Diego (500 miles). At UNL, students can and do go home almost every weekend, or live at home. Students at UNL routinely attend college with their high school classmates. At UCLA or Cal, that is far less likely. In fact, as a UCLA student, it was rare to run into anyone I knew (I think 6 students from my high school attended UCLA. Over 100 students from my daughter’s graduating class attend UNL.)

As far as UVA and UNC, both schools are also in higher population high growth states.

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I can’t speak to the level of insularity at UNL. I can, however, speak to my own experience attending a midwestern flagship which, at the time, was either 73% in-state or 67%. I was from out-of-state, and 5 of the 6 of my closest friends were from in-state. These friends did not know each other prior to arriving at the flagship (outside of attending a weekend competition for an elite college scholarship). Five of us attended grad school out-of-state (all at Top X programs). Four of us still live out-of-state, with three of us living in highly populous coastal metro areas. For friends that were further on the periphery, the same type of story holds true.

The majority of my friends were part of an elite cohort (5 of the 6 attended the scholarship weekend with 4 receiving the scholarship), but Raikes is also a pretty elite cohort (35-40 students/year). I think it would behoove OP to ask to speak to current Raikes students to see what their experience has been like in terms of making friends with like-minded students (whether they are Nebraska residents or not)

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Well this is vague. Illinois is a Midwestern state but is ranked 6th in terms of population. Ohio is a Midwestern state that is ranked 7th in population: Nebraska is ranked 37th. I have friends who went to a one room schoolhouse in Nebraska. The state slogan is “Nebraska: it isn’t for everyone.”

There is a huge misconception that because UNL is in a state capitol and has traditionally had big success in sports that it is the same as
other big name State U’s. It is not. Nebraska as a state is rural, agricultural, and simply is not competitive with the rest of the country, except when it comes to the tax burden. Another way to put it is that Nebraska is extremely average, except for the weather extremes and costs.

OP, FWIW I asked my daughter about you choosing between UNL and UIUC (she has many friends at UNL). She laughed kind of incredulously and said you shouldn’t even think twice about choosing UIUC.

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I think @13street had a S24 going to Raikes. if he/she still frequents CC and are willing to provide a perspective that might be helpful …

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My son is a freshman at Raikes. He passed up UMD CS and UMass CS to attend Raikes.

First, heed what @DivineMarshmallow said regarding the social scene. That’s very true.

That said, Raikes is a very career oriented program with great academic and career support. My son has an internship (remember, he’s only a freshman) and I think everyone he knows does too. Most of the internships are in the Midwest: Lincoln, Omaha, Des Moines, Kansas City.

I think very few Raikes graduates go to grad school. UIUC probably has many more active academic clubs. But Raikes is very good at placing students in Google, Amazon, Palantir and Microsoft (Raikes is a Nebraskan who was one of Microsoft’s first employees). You can check out their LinkedIn or Instagram page for placement info for the last couple of classes.

Academics are OK, and there is lots of group work. He isn’t as fond of the business classes. UMD or UMass may have been better fits from that standpoint.

UNL is a school with a lot of spirit, but can be difficult, at least initially, for someone not from Nebraska who doesn’t know anyone at the school.

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Although I’ve visited Nebraska, it is true that I’ve never lived there, which is why I wrote:

I think that getting first hand information about schools is one of the benefits of this site. I also think a benefit is to hear from different perspectives. I know that I had views about my own state flagship when I was in high school and college, but I have since realized that due to my own biases, my perception of the school may not have been accurate. Thus, when speaking of that flagship I recommend that people talk to those who actually attend.

You shared the information below (showing the whole paragraph so that people can gauge the sense of the of the quote about percentage of students in-state)

I wanted OP to understand that a state flagship having 75% of students from in-state is not abnormally high and that out-of-state students can attend a school with a percentage that high and still make friends and provided an illustration from my own experience. Since I don’t feel comfortable speaking to the specifics at UNL I recommended this:

Thank you @13street for sharing the perspective of your Raikes freshman.

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The consensus is that UIUC is more mind-opening, will be stronger for CS, and will “place” in more cities/regions.
UNL will be more “comfortable” if the student is from Nebraska and may be isolating outside of Raikes if the student comes from OOS. It’ll likely be more a “big fish in small pond” situation.

@Matthew_Zhou : you were admitted to UIUC CS, an elite program everyone in the country knows about if they have anything to do with hiring or CS. It’s that well-known and appreciated.
There are few public universities with stronger programs. If they admitted you, it means they think you can succeed there.
So the question is both whether you’re able (they think so, what makes you think they’re wrong?) and willing (only you would know). You don’t need to tell us :slight_smile:

Some more questions to ask or consider:
Have you asked how easy it is to add Business electives to your CS degree at UIUC?
Have you asked Raikes and UIUC about whether the Masters degree is considered good for UIUC CS or other top programs?
One key aspect of Raikes is the community and you mentioned the dorms, but what about this - would you be interested and qualify?
https://www.housing.illinois.edu/living-communities/llc/innovation

At this point, have you contacted alumni or current students?
Is the extra cost for UIUC a burden for your family or can they pay out of pocket from salary and savings?

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While this is normally true, it is not usually true for UNL, which I then explained in my following paragraph (which you didn’t quote.)

It is very difficult to get non Nebraskans to understand how different the social climate is here. People will be friendly. However, they won’t necessarily want outsiders to be their friends.

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I think you are doing a good job describing a “monoculture” which makes Raikes very much a “fit school”, regardless of how the percentages compare to other state U’s.

I wish parents and students paid more attention to this. In the last five years, this is probably the biggest cause of “My kid is miserable and needs to transfer” that I’ve observed IRL. The percentage of instate vs. out of state? Yes, good to know. The percentage of athletes vs. non-athletes? Sure. People obsess over the number of classes with more than 200 students in them, how many freshman have singles with air conditioning, how many study abroad programs there are, etc.

But the granular details of “how many sub-cultures exist in this place and do any of them match my kid” seems like it doesn’t get considered.

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Delete, wrong thread

Hey, I just wanted to say that this is a great discussion and I really appreciate all the opinions people have provided. Definitely a lot to think about.
Answering some of the questions I’ve seen here:

I am an Illinois resident, so I will be out of state at UNL.

My real name is not Matthew Zhou.

I am interested in both business and computer science, but definitely more passionate about computer science (for example, ideally my classes would be 80% cs 20% business)

The community and individualized support (small cohort, raikes specific faculty) is a huge draw, and a big reason why this decision is so hard to make.

UIUC does not think the Raikes curriculum covers enough computer science to be strongly considered for a MS in Computer Science, however I am not considering grad school unless it is necessary to get a job.

I have contacted both Raikes School students (have not contacted any alums) and UIUC CS students / alums. Both groups of people speak strongly of their program. Raikes students said they have had little trouble finding internships, although they are mostly in Nebraska.

The extra cost is not a huge burden for my family. I would likely have no debt either way.

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Once you have an internship, the where you want to go won’t be an issue. You apply for jobs where you want to be.

And looking at Raikes partner list, they are clearly not placing only in Nebraska. Especially at a six figure salary.

Getting a first internship opens doors later. For any major and any school.

Where are the Raikes students from ? Are they more geographically diverse than UNL as a whole ?

I went from Ca to Ny. You get over that lack of social equalness quickly. You adapt. I’ve been with Idaho,Montana, Nebraska kids in NY. My son had at Alabama a few friends from tiny states. It’s not a death knell. Sorry. It’s tough anytime you leave home and I appreciate what the person said above but clearly many succeed.

And Chicagoans go to UNL.

Visit so you can talk in person to multiple kids. If the support at Raikes matters and doesn’t exist at UIUC, don’t be afraid if that’s what you decide.

Good luck.

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Keep in mind UIUC CS (not including CS+X) typically graduates ~ 350 every year, but the salary and placement surveys have only ~60 responses. Do talk to more UIUC alums to get the complete picture.

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If that is the case, would it be sufficient for some of the more technical roles that employers hire new CS graduates into (as opposed to more business adjacent roles, such as writing software for applications in accounting, finance, HR, etc.)?

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