Pls help any suggestions for OOS Engineering Schools that offer great merit aid

<p>So my son has already taken the </p>

<p>SAT 2070 combined (730 750 590 bleh)
ACT scored a 33
PSAT got a 215 (sigh in california won't meet NMSF)
Chem SAT 2 740 and AP Chem test scored a 5</p>

<p>His unweighted GPA is probably around 3.85, no idea on weighted though but he should end up with about 8-9 AP classes and almost all honors. His ECs are decent he started and is president of the Tech Club, 3 yrs of cross country, led the church praise team, volunteered at marathons, worked with teachers to enter school into Pioneers in Engineering. He has interests in Physics and Engineering. We live in San Francisco, middle income family will not qualify for any need based aid. So merit aid is pretty much a must. We're aiming for full tuition. So far we've looked at Alabama, the numerous UC's and State Universities in California.</p>

<p>We're coming up with summer and got lots of brochures but its so hard going through them and lots are from colleges I've never heard of.</p>

<p>On our list so far</p>

<p>Alabama
Truman State
Pitt
Iowa State</p>

<p>Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If you PM me what your child got and what college I'd be estatic! I'm saving money right now for all the application and transcript fees. Hopefully we'll have enough to take a trip to atleast one university. I've sat down and talked to our child about our finances. After mortgage and taxes and bills not very much left. But at OOS colleges I think we can swing room and board as long as its not NY. But tuition is usually a stretch. Any input is greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>Is your son a junior?</p>

<p>As you know, the UCs often don't give much merit.</p>

<p>As you mentioned, Alabama will give him free tuition. PLUS, as an engineering major, he'd also get 2500 per year. So, your remaining costs could be quite low.</p>

<p>I suggest that he also apply to Computer Based Honors at Bama. Those who are invited to CBH and who aren't NMF, sometimes get extra money which can be used for housing.</p>

<p>Full tuition scholarships are getting harder to find with engineering. </p>

<p>He could also look at Miss State and LSU for merit. </p>

<p>Purdue would give merit, but not as much as he needs. It costs about $40k, but he'd likely only get about $8-10.</p>

<p>Coming from OOS, it's important to also consider whether the student body is largely instate, commuter, and/or suitcase. It's harder for OOS students to adjust if a large number of the student body go home at night or weekends.</p>

<p>Truman State does not have any ABET</a> accredited engineering degree programs.</p>

<p>Minnesota, Virginia Tech, and Stony Brook have relatively low list prices for out of state students (not much different from UC in state list prices, but more than CSU in state list prices).</p>

<p>Will he be applying to UC and CSU (including Cal Poly) schools, and would he be eligible for aid like UC BGO or Cal Grant? Would commuting to Berkeley, SFSU, or SJSU be an option to keep the costs down? Or even CCSF or other community college followed by transfer to a UC or CSU?</p>

<p>I am not an expert, but I will put in my two cents. Your son is a great student and appears to be an outstanding human being, but possibly not good enough for a full ride at many engineering schools. I think that your best bet is smaller privates. For OOS engineering I strongly suggest looking into Rose Hulman, which is very highly ranked and has surprisingly low stats for entering freshman. Your son's 33 ACT will really help him out. Another school might be Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute another excellent school, but its students have more competitive stats. I am not sure if your son can get a full ride there, but it is worth a try. Your kid will most definitely get into a great program, but merit scholarships? Not sure with those stats.</p>

<p>My son was a valedictory scholar with a perfect GPA for all four years of high school and tested in the top 3% nationally on the ACT. He got absolutely nothing from the UC's or the privates he applied to. He got into many of the best engineering programs in the state. But like you no needs based aid and no merit money. In past years it is possible that he could have gotten merit money but in today's environment of budget cuts, even my kid wasn't good enough. So, we visited each program and let our son pick the school he felt most comfortable at. He ended picking Cal Poly San Luis Obispo and it was a perfect fit for his experiential learning style. Outstanding program and all hands on. It also just so happens to be the cheapest school of all the ones we applied to. Score! Just under $8,000 a year for tuition. About $23,000 total soup to nuts including room and board. We feel that we won the lottery. oru kid pulled off a 4.00 GPA in his first quarter.</p>

<p>Santookie,</p>

<p>Take a look at Trinity University in San Antonio, TX. It is very generous with merit aid, and a few years ago began awarding a handful of full tuition scholarships. They also have special scholarships for STEM kids. The campus is lovely, and right now is building a terrific new Center for Innovation(or something like that-see the website) , and your son would get lots of great use from that. </p>

<p>The engineering program is ranked 21st for schools that do not offer a doctoral degree. The school itself has been called #1 in the Master's West category for 20 years, if that means anything to you. </p>

<p>The engineering is ABET accredited, and there are 3 concentrations-mech ,elec, and I forget the other. D graduate last May, though not in STEM, and told me that her friends in engineering found it to be really good, but demanding.</p>

<p>There is absoulety no point in going to a smaller private for an engineering degree. Small translates to limited. You are much better off at a large state school. You want access to multiple professors with multiple specialties, not a two prof department where the 2 profs are partnered on the same research projects.</p>

<p>Some additional background. I remember trying the generic EFC calculators and it came up with $22k for our share per year. We make about $100k prior to taxes, but living in CA is offworldly (mortgage, property taxes, income tax, gas, commute, everything just feels so pricey). Wife's a teacher and I work for the fed government. Not much left and I think that EFC would be very loan heavy which we're trying to avoid. We do intend to tighten the belt cut back on retirement contributions and such. Really trying to make it work. He's bright and we have thought about community college locally too.</p>

<p>Osakadad - OMG your spot on. I have been looking at the Cal Polys. I even found out Pomona had a decent honors program. I did notice that some UC like Davis have Reagents scholarships, but room and board at any UC in CA is so high its crazy. I never thought people would think a $22-24k COA is a bargain, but I guess its the times.</p>

<p>gloworm - Thank you another college to research! I'm adding it to our list. I felt like I randomly sent the SAT and ACT scores last time since the deadline for the free score sending approached so fast after the test.</p>

<p>ucbalumnus - We're definitely keeping community colleges as a contingency plan. Our local one he would go to would probably be Skyline or College of San Mateo. I personally went to De Anza in Cupertino and finished in SFSU. I worked through college full time, was a teenage parent. So how it worked. We're probably going to apply to SJSU as a backup since there engineering is decent. I was actually debating on adding Minnesota to the list. I assume you mean Twin Cities right? Oh and Truman state had some weird program where its like part physics and you take one semester in U of Miss and you get a double major in physics and engineering. Thats the reason we thought about Truman State. But looking at where its located might be a little too rural for him. </p>

<p>mom2collegekids - your and ucbalumnus are like my favorite posters. Very informative I learn something very often. Yeah he is a junior just finishing off this year. He's working super hard getting ready for 3 AP tests, to retake the SAT and ACT, starting the Pioneers in Engineering program at his school. We actually got to talk to a Alabama recruiter in October he was so nice, he told us to apply during the 4th of July hehehe. Definitely look into applying to Ole Miss and LSU, its just so hard to figure out which schools have clean cut numbers for what type of merit scholarships they'll offer. I addition he's working on getting all his stuff together recommendations and transcripts for apps over the summer. Then he's been apply to summer programs we found as well. We've debated on getting a small loan from a family member to send him to one of those programs like Operation Catapult at Rose Hulmen. I do worry about the suitcase schools a little. We do plan on taking atleast one of those circle trips you suggested. We're going to save and make it a vacation at the same time. Its too bad that engineering scholarships are harder to come by. I actually had a talk with him he really wanted to do straight physics, but engineering was decided to be slightly better especially if he changes his mind and does not want to go graduate school. Plus some schools give the opportunity to double major in it.</p>

<p>My husband started out in EE at the University of Dayton and changed majors later on to Computer Engineering. The program is fantastic, along with all of the other engineering majors. They give excellent merit aid, I have a friend whose dgt is attending there currently. With your son's scores I would expect him to get a lot of aid there.</p>

<p>Yes, Minnesota Twin Cities. Out of state list price is about $29,000 per year, though.</p>

<p>If his interest is mechanical engineering, he may want to apply to Berkeley and apply to the full ride Drake</a> Scholarship. Berkeley also has a need aid program that includes your family income range called the MCAP[/url</a>]. However, Berkeley engineering is very selective, so it would help to have a [url=<a href="http://www.csumentor.edu/planning/high_school/gpa_calculator.asp%5DUC/CSU">http://www.csumentor.edu/planning/high_school/gpa_calculator.asp]UC/CSU</a> GPA of 4.2 or higher (UC does not look at senior year course grades while CSU does).</p>

<p>For community colleges, look up Welcome</a> to ASSIST to find out which ones have the most coverage of prerequisite courses for the desired target campuses and majors, in order to minimize "catch up" after transfer. A student may find that a combination of courses at more than one community college gives the best coverage. But be aware of quarter versus semester system differences to avoid having to partially repeat courses.</p>

<p>The Truman State program is a 3+2 program with University of Missouri. Be aware that financial aid and scholarships at the "2" school (Missouri) may differ from that at the "3" school; also check whether admission to the "2" school is guaranteed, guaranteed based on GPA, or competitive. Also, many students initially planning to do 3+2 end up not wanting to transfer to the "2" school after spending three years at the "3" school.</p>

<p>I agree with having Pitt on the list, but be sure to apply early (September). Your son's SAT scores are not high enough for the full ride Chancellors scholarship, but he should receive the full tuition scholarship in addition to another $4k (or so, this one is variable) for engineering.</p>

<p>lammb66 - Did look into dayton. The scholarships look interesting. For his grade and score range it just said above $45k which I assume is broken up over 4 years. I just have no idea of how over that amount it goes. The website is very nice and has lots of information about guaranteed scholarships. Still debating on applying there.</p>

<p>ucbalumnus - I'm not too sure what specifically he wants to major in for engineering yet. We were debating on doing general first then having him figuring out. Our S always says things like nuclear engineering and his mom frowns, our friend jokes that he'll be working in France with that degree. I have looked up assist once or twice. It's so varied by CC. Some CC have lots of transfer classes, tons have few that would actually set you back. Currently he has a 5 on AP chem and thats 8 units at Alabama, so we take that into consideration. Assuming he gets some more 4 or 5 he can be really ahead at a school like Alabama. moms2college made Alabama sound so awesome, only reluctance we have is distance and no one I've known has ever been to Alabama. Then the MCAP, I remember reading tons of articles when that first came out. From my understanding it would bring our total cost down to around $20k vs the $30k which is not too shabby at all. But still pricey and from what I understand you have to do work study or take out loans for a certain portion. I'm definitely going to research how that turned out for people this coming year. But at the same time I love UCB (brother in law goes there on a full ride, but income helped him) but hearing horror stories of how it takes more than 4 yrs for certain degrees, Californias budget woes, hard to get classes etc. Really turn me off. While honors programs at Pitt and Alabama sound so amazing. I've actually debated on buying that old honors college book momsfromtexas referenced, I've seen it on amazon used for like $5 bucks. But my collection of college books is getting out of hand.</p>

<p>crazymonster - replies like you're just make me all warm and giddy inside. My son and I joke about Pitt. I explained to him what the Cathedral of Learning was. He salivates about that part. He actually loved this game called Fallout and one chapter of it took part at the Cathedral in game. Hopefully. We are definitely applying there early.</p>

<p>@OP Yes, my son applied to and was accepted to 5 UC's and both Cal Poly's including the Kellogg Honors College at Pomona. The UC programs did not fit our son's learning style and academic aspirations. The Cal Poly's were both good programs and the Cal Poly Pomona Honors program really had us interested. But, Cal Poly SLO ended up being our first and most natural choice. In fact, we knew within an hour of stepping on campus that this was his school. We did not feel that anywhere else. The money was not a factor, it was an extra bonus that the school was the least expensive option -- pure coincidence. Their program just fit like a glove.</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>UC four year graduation rates have been increasing from 1991 to 2009, according to [url=<a href="http://statfinder.ucop.edu%5DUniversity"&gt;http://statfinder.ucop.edu]University&lt;/a> of California: StatFinder<a href="most%20recently%20around%2070%%20at%20Berkeley">/url</a>. Unfortunately, there is no data newer than 2009. But the increase is likely due to both higher selectivity (meaning less need for remedial courses, students who can handle normal course loads, etc.) and high cost (more incentive to avoid taking an extra semester or quarter). Berkeley does have a multi-stage registration process that gives everyone a chance to sign up for about half of his/her schedule first (presumably the students' most important courses), then allowing everyone to sign up for the rest.</p>

<p>The MCAP link says that if you qualify, the parent contribution will be at most 15% of income, or $15,000 per year if your income is $100,000 per year.</p>

<p>Osakadad - That sounds amazing. Cal Poly SLO is close enough for a weekend visit for us we might have to brave it. But I did have a coworkers son go there for a year do engineering and had to drop out after first year. He went to CC for 1 yrs and came back to SLO recently. I do hear that the engineering program is sometimes considered more rigorous than Berkeley's</p>

<p>ucbalumnus - I heard it was a different amount. From what I read it was 15% plus $8,000 atleast that is what this article says. If it was $15,000 that would be an amazing deal. It would be like them giving us free room and board. I remember some estimates put UCB at $32k a year average this coming year.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/14/MN4U1MCJQC.DTL%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/14/MN4U1MCJQC.DTL&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>But only time will tell how exactly that programs works. Hopefully some amazing individual would be kind enough to share there experience this coming school year.</p>

<p>Under the Berkeley MCAP, the $15,000 for a household of income $100,000 would be the parent contribution. The student would be expected to contribute about $8,000 per year from student loans and summer or work-study job earnings.</p>

<p>Here is a long shot: Stanford.</p>

<p>Stanford says "Tuition</a> Charges Covered for Parents with Income Below $100,000".</p>

<p>That does not include about</a> $17,000 in other costs, but your location is in relatively close commuting range if that becomes necessary. The hard part is getting admitted.</p>

<p>Ucbalumnus - haha that school is a reach and we are like the worse possible non-URM. He's Chinese/White/Korean total screwed on the west coast. But yes we're probably going to apply. Wife said if he got in there she'd take a plunge on all kinds of debt, which is making me sweat.</p>

<p>


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<p>However, based on what is stated on the web site (see links above), Stanford could actually be one of the cheaper options if he gets in, especially with the "live at home and commute" option if that is needed to save money (based on the community colleges you named in San Mateo County, Stanford would probably not be much further away than a community college).</p>

<p>Note that at Berkeley, inexpensive housing can be found in the Berkeley</a> Student Cooperative. If interested, it may be a good idea to put in the application as early as possible, since new member applications without any preference items (e.g. EOP, disabilities, etc.) are taken chronologically.</p>

<p>Commuting to Berkeley from San Mateo County is possible, but seems like it would be a lengthy or annoying commute.</p>

<p>@OP -- I would not say that Cal Poly is more rigorous than Berkeley. Berkeley has a very reputable world class program. This truth is that the programs are fundamentally different. My kid was very specific as to what he wanted. Before we even began the college selection process, even before we knew the distinction between the teaching methodologies of the various schools, my kid wanted a hands on program with a strong emphasis on practicality. My kid wanted to be deep into engineering from day one without 2 years of GE's to get out of the way first. He wanted to spend more time in the lab than with his head in books. Cal Poly SLO has given him all of that. When he came back for winter break his hands were all beat up from using drill presses in the machine shop. What Cal Poly does is prepare you to be work ready even prior to graduation. I can't say that you can't get that at the UC's, but those schools have a deeper emphasis on overall scholarship and research. Cal Poly also emphasizes these things but does it all in the context of a "Learn by Doing" culture with immediate application. My kid has hours and hours of lab time each week. Even his English class made him go out into the community and do interviews for his papers. The program is very action oriented. He is even on a team building a super mileage prototype vehicle for competition in Houston in May -- and he is just a freshman! We are incredibly grateful for the program and the way it is taught. I must add that in no way do I want to diss other programs. It is all about fit. My kid would have been miserable in another program.</p>