Political science/pre-law focus. 3.95 UW, 1540 SAT [CA resident, 4.23 weighted capped GPA for UC, NMSF]

Chance Me / Match Me
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Demographics

  • US domestic
  • State/Location of residency: CA
  • Type of high school (or current college for transfers): Competitive public school
  • Other special factors: None

Cost Constraints / Budget
None

Intended Major(s)
Political Science, Government, International Affairs or similar; intend to go to law school

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.95
  • Weighted HS GPA: 4.29 uncapped, 4.23 capped UC GPA (A = 5, B = 4)
  • Class Rank: School does not rank but not in top 10%
  • ACT/SAT Scores: SAT 1540 superscore (800 Reading, 740 Math)

List your HS coursework

(Indicate advanced level, such as AP, IB, AICE, A-level, or college, courses as well as specifics in each subject)

  • English: Honors American Literature (AP Lit score 5)
  • Math: PreCalc Honors, AP Calc AB (AP score 5)
  • Science: Chem Honors, AP Bio (AP score 5)
  • History and social studies: AP US History (AP score 5)
  • Language other than English: Spanish 3
  • Visual or performing arts: Singing (includes free public performances)

Major preparation course work:

  • Brown Pre-Law Summer Program
  • 3 dual enrollment classes at community college (all As)

Awards
1520 PSAT / National Merit Scholarship semifinalist

Extracurriculars

  • League of Women Voters (national nonpartisan voter engagement org) - Board Member and Social Media Director for local chapter
  • Political Science Union - President
  • Model UN - VP Public Relations
  • FBLA national level competition (1st in CA, did not rank nationally)
  • Youth Public Policy Institute - Committee co-chair
  • One-month law firm internship
  • Ongoing research with political science professor at major private US university
  • Vote411 volunteer during election seasons

Essays/LORs/Other
In early stages of essays but expect to be strong; good at writing

Schools
Tentative list, may be narrowed down. Chancing is from counselor.

  • Claremont McKenna (tentative ED1) - Reach
  • Emory (tentative ED2) - Reach
  • All UCs - UCB reach, UCLA reach+, UCSD reach, UCI reach, UCD target
  • Brown - reach+
  • Georgetown - reach
  • University of Michigan (tentative - have never visited) - reach
  • USC - reach
  • Tufts - reach
  • University of Wisconsin (tentative - have never visited) - target
  • Boston University - target
  • Boston College - target
  • Purdue - likely
  • University of Washington Seattle - target
  • George Washington - target
  • Penn State - likely
  • San Diego State University - target
  • CSU Long Beach - target

How does this list look? Are there other universities we should be considering?

We think the counselor chancing is conservative, especially around marking SDSU and CSU LB as target rather than likely, but would appreciate thoughts. Thank you!

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Since you attend a competitive CA public school, your counselor probably has a pretty good idea of your chances at CA publics. What major are you planning to apply for at these schools? Note that at these two schools, all majors are considered impacted (link), and these schools primarily consider your CSU GPA with a few other numeric factors weighted in. CA publics don’t see your SAT, and the CSUs don’t use holistic factors such as your extracurriculars, essays, LORs etc. Your admission will primarily depend on how your CSU GPA compares to other applicants for the same major.

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So I think without any cost constraints, this means your kid is free to choose the type of college experience they want, academically and non-academically.

Some of the more common variables kids consider are the overall size of the college, public versus private, curriculum structure, curriculum focus, location (like where in the country), setting (like urban, suburban, larger college town, smaller college town), available student activities, housing and dining, student culture/vibe, and so on.

I think some people tend to think of at least some of these as “soft” factors that should be trumped by more “serious” considerations, but I think that can be a bit of a mistake. For sure cost is a hard factor, and so is having any academic programs you might want. But after that, things on this list that particularly matter to you may well be a factor in how you do academically. And how you do academically can be very important, with something like law school admissions being a great example.

Right now, to me this list seems sort of scattershot. CMC is a small “liberal arts and sciences” college in Southern California. Emory is a midsize private research university in Atlanta, Georgia. The UCs are large public research universities in California, but in a variety of settings. Brown is back to midsize private, in Providence, and famously has a very open curriculum. Georgetown is also a midsize private, in DC, but it is a Jesuit college with a robust core curriculum. And so on.

OK, so I would try to see if your kid could reflect more on what they really want, and then they can build a list around those values and preferences.

Just to give an example, DC is a pretty cool place to do Political stuff. There are a variety of other colleges in what I would consider the DC greater orbit besides Georgetown and George Washington, including some LACs. Not every college on the list has to be in the DC area (although that would be an option), but maybe more along those lines would be worth considering?

Similarly, I always like to mention Jesuit colleges to kids with a Poli Sci and/or law interest, because they are often really great for that sort of kid–lots of focus on a good general education, strong reading and writing skills, civic virtues, and often well-located in significant cities and super networked in local political and legal circles.

So, again that includes Georgetown, and they also have BC on their list. But what about, say, Fordham in NYC? Or Loyola Marymount in LA? Or Santa Clara in the Bay Area? There are many more, and again while you don’t have to do all Jesuit colleges (although you could), this could be another way to help fill out a list.

Anyway, ultimately your kid has to decide what matters to them. But I do think it looks like they would benefit from some serious investigation, reflection, and then getting picky about every college having the attributes that end up really mattering to them.

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If you’re going to law school, have you budgeted for seven years - because where you go won’t likely matter. Harvard, UVA, Penn have more than 100 colleges represented in their first year class. NM can get you a full ride. They enroll kids from all levels of schools.

So I look at some - and wonder why vs others - but that’s just me - because $400k is a lot.

The record is unbelievable so congrats to them on that:

Relative to your list - I’d say the chancing are pretty good but I’d make a few adjustments - not that it matters because you do have acceptances and you just need one:

Gtown is a reach +

BU reach

BC is a reach

Purdue - safety - why Purdue ? IU much stronger

Penn State safety - Pitt a stronger choice

As for who you should be considering - it depends on what you want in a school and experience.

Why Michigan when you can get equivalent at half price ? Ohio State, Delaware, Arizona, etc - all strong in these disciplines.

Why small town Purdue/Penn State and uber urban GW and BU etc.

I wonder how the list was developed ?

If the goal is law school, I’d be taking a free/near free NMF offer like Bama or Tulsa or others who give free tuition - and / or taking Hail Mary’s like W& L Johnson, College of Charleston Fellows like mine did in case they did happen. All will get you to the top law schools - as would W Michigan, Grabd Valley State or Cal State Dominguez Hills.

But we all see the monetary part differently.

But I’m not sure I understand the list make up or how it came to be. Example- I don’t see loving Claremont McKenna and then a huge school.

But certainly you have acceptances on your list.

I’d worry less about target / reach classifications as you don’t need all. Id worry more about you have an acceptance or two that you’d love because you can only go to one.

And that you have.

Good luck.

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Got it, thank you, good point re all majors being impacted at the CSU schools which is why they may be more of a target than likely.

Major at most schools is likely to be PoliSci, some schools have a PPE major which could be relevant.

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CSULB and SDSU are among the less transparent CSUs about how competitive each major is (compared to SJSU which posts prior year admission thresholds by major on its web site).

Would you be in the local service area for CSULB or SDSU? That can help, although it may not be that clear how much at these campuses.

For UCs, you may find Freshman admission by discipline | University of California to be of interest. GPAs there are weighted capped.

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No, we are not in the local service area for these CSUs, though useful to know that that could be a factor. Thanks for the UC link, looks very interesting.

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I note if they actually want to do PPE, or something similar, that could be another organizing theme.

Like the University of Richmond (which is also in a state capital, which is yet another organizing theme for political kids) actually has a PPEL (adding Law) major:

That could be something that might stand out to your kid–or not.

Another poster mentioned Pitt, and Pitt also has a PPE major (they call it just PP, but as you will see it includes Economics):

I note even when there is not a formal PPE major, a Public Policy major, or something similar, might be suitable (versus straight Poli Sci or Government).

So, for example, William & Mary–also a Greater DC college–has both Government:

But also Public Policy:

Comparing those in depth at a single institution can be a useful exercise. Of course the nice thing about colleges like William & Mary (and many others on this model) is you don’t have to decide when applying, you can start taking classes and do whatever major emerges as your favorite.

But the college having something like a PPE major, or at least Public Policy, might be a nice option, and a good organizing theme.

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For a political science major, would proximity to a state capital be of interest? That might suggest schools like CSU Sacramento, UC Davis, Arizona State University, University of Hawaii - Manoa, University of Minnesota - Twin Cities, University of Wisconsin - Madison, and probably others.

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Good feedback here around the list feeling scattered, thank you. The organizing principle (to the extent it exists at all) is to focus on midsize, liberal arts-ish private colleges; Claremont felt like a good fit though small because of the larger 5C community, and there are others in that midsize private mould like Emory (not visited yet, hence tentative, but will visit next month), Georgetown, Brown, Tufts etc.

UCs are more or less a given to apply to being in-state; the other large publics like UMich, UW, UWisc are there candidly because they show up in US News rankings (probably a bad way to go about picking).

Purdue is also on the list because it has a good “brand” but relatively high acceptance rate.

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Ohio State and Michigan State as well, along with the aforementioned University of Richmond.

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As another one, Willamette is located in Oregon’s state capital and is popular for that reason with some poli sci kids from CA.

Sounds like a school that might fit the preference for “liberal arts-ish private colleges” as well.

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We are also thinking about the fact that many college students change their minds about going to grad school while in undergrad, so also want to make sure that that undergrad university has a good “brand” in case that turns out to be the terminal degree.

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Given that, I would double down on suggesting William & Mary. Even though it is a public, it sure feels more like this type of private, and is a great school for this kid’s academic interests.

I’d also double down on the Jesuit colleges theme. This is really describing a lot of Jesuit colleges, and I think savvy kids (and parents) looking for that sort of experience in a Likely/Foundation or Target/Match college can often find great Jesuit college options along those lines.

Not mentioned before, but if they are fairly serious about the International idea, they might want to check out the University of Denver. Again, fits the mold in general, also a state capital, and then the Korbel School is very well-regarded in IR circles:

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UMD would be another such school, and it’s located just outside Washington DC.
They have a well regarded political science program, and it’s a popular choice among pol sci majors here on the east coast.

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Would political science or similar be the most likely major if not aiming for law school? If not, be aware that law school admission does not require or favor any particular major, so law school intention should not be seen as requiring one to major in political science or similar.

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But not a brand for your interests where the IU brand is extremely strong for your interests. . In fact, it’s tied with Syracuse Maxwell for the top grad school in PA.

Pitt is a much stronger social science school than Penn state, as an example.

Based on what you described - yes schools like W&M, Richmond, Tufts, Charleston as a safety, U Denver (safety but strong in the disciplines) would fit. Syracuse, Wake, Pitt, Miami, Delaware - the last 3 mid large publics. A Rochester and potentially Wake would give you an open curriculum option to explore interests.

If you don’t like big and money isn’t an object, then why UC or CSU. If it’s because they’re cheaper, well you can get cheaper than them with the NM.

As for academic breadth, a social science student is unlikely to become a STEM student so Purdue still wouldn’t make sense in that regard although would still provide a great education.

And the brand in many majors won’t impact outcomes.

So then it’s a question of - wanting to spend $250-400k if you don’t need to ??

Is a brand like Purdue or Wisconsin worth hundreds of thousands over free Tulsa or over Alabama? Not in any study done in what she’ll be studying - no way.

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My two cents is it might be more helpful to think in terms of networks as opposed to brands.

A brand is relevant to mass marketing a consumer good, but a college graduate is not a consumer good, and getting a job is not really mass marketing.

Networking, though, is very much still how many graduates get a job.

Then the thing about networks is they tend to be focused in some way–in a certain industry/field, in a certain area, and so on. But many colleges have a variety of good networks.

OK, so part of the rationale behind being in DC or a state capital or possibly a big international city is for government, policy, and political jobs, that can be great for networking purposes. Not strictly obligatory, but it is usually at least a convenience, in that professors, recent graduates, parents of fellow students, and so on might still be easy access points into nearby political/policy networks.

For business networking, there is usually quite a bit of overlap, including just because many of the big political cities will also be big business cities.

And then of course being networked in a major political or business market doesn’t necessarily mean being right inside it. There are plenty of highly networked colleges in rural areas, because of course their graduates don’t come from there or stay there, families just send their kids “to the country” for college (a very old Anglo-American tradition).

So again just to use William & Mary as a repeat example–William & Mary has a lot of good academic networks, but it is also super plugged into DC. It isn’t directly in DC, but a ton of kids from the DC Metro area, not least NoVa, go there for college, and a ton of graduates end up in various positions in DC, in all of government, politics, NGOs, businesses, and so on.

And other places too, I don’t mean to imply it is just a local school. But if you are picking out favorites, and cost isn’t a concern, you might as well pick favorites known to be particularly well-networked in fields and areas you might be interested in.

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My D22 had similar grades, interests and ECs (with theater and music thrown in). She was interested in PPE, CA resident. A few more APs, slightly lower test scores.

I understand your D’s list as it looks similar to my D22’s. Here’s where my D applied, her major when applying, and the results. Maybe it will help expand her research.

  • ED1: UPenn (PPE major) Rejected
  • Yale: (PPE) Rejected
  • Columbia (Poli Sci): Rejected
  • Tufts (civic studies): Rejected
  • Boston University (Poli Sci/Philosophy): Rejected
  • Wesleyan (college of social studies): Waitlisted
  • Middlebury (don’t remember): Rejected
  • Fordham (Poli Sci): Accepted with merit
  • USC: Rejected
  • Michigan (PPE): Accepted EA
  • Wisconsin: Accepted EA
  • Macalester: Accepted EA with merit
  • Vermont: Accepted EA with merit
  • Oregon: Accepted EA with merit
  • UCLA: Accepted
  • UCSB: Accepted
  • Berkeley: Rejected
  • Smith College: Accepted
  • Kenyon College: Accepted

She goes to UCLA and is now a Communications and History major. She loves it! And she’s still undecided on law school :slight_smile:

Also, I don’t agree that a college list needs contain the same type of schools—as though a kid can’t appreciate and value both UCLA and Kenyon. Those were my D’s two final schools. So, I think it’s smart to keep a mix—just as long as she herself has a compelling reason why they are there.

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Lots of great notes above, particularly around spending the time to identify what environment will make for the best/most successful college experience for your specific kid. I know kids who walk onto a LAC campus and simply light up (me) vs others (my son) who just know they will be happier at a bigger school. Weather, proximity to home, city center, etc also worth valuing and experiencing in person if possible - especially if starting from such a broad list. From there, it is easier to incorporate things like rankings or brand to further refine.

I would also be remiss if I didn’t shoutout Pomona College if you are considering CMC.

Occidental, Pitzer, Reed, Chapman, American U may also be worth investigating in addition to the suggestions above.

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