<p>I’m another who’s uncomfortable with the Catholic Church thinking I’m still catholic. It just kinda makes me feel like I don’t have a choice in the matter. I made the choice a long time ago to leave the church when the church made it very clear that people like me were never to be equal.</p>
<p>But other religions believe everyone is born into their religion whether they like it or not so I guess it’s not a huge deal :).</p>
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Because they know that in 2013, Catholics won’t ring their doorbell and shoot them for offending their religion.</p>
<p>My daughter was born and raised Protestant, but is exploring the possibility of converting to Catholicism. I’m fine with whatever she does, but I’m glad my father isn’t here to know that. He was the old fashioned, Catholic hating, kind of Protestant and would have lost his mind. He was fine and dandy with people of all other religions, but could not abide Catholics. Mind you, his family came from Scotland before 1700, so his religious trauma was not fresh in his mind. Must have been in the DNA.</p>
<p>RGE, I think it is a big deal. I also don’t think it squares with Church history. I think throughout its history, the Church has recognized that people can choose to leave the Church, and I don’t think “Once a Catholic, always a Catholic” is the Church’s official teaching.</p>
<p>Of course, I am not Catholic, so when it comes to determining the Church’s official teaching, I don’t really have skin in the game. But when it comes to defining myself religiously, I think I do deserve a lot greater say than the Church gets!</p>
<p>Sikorsky: you said exactly what I have been feeling reading this thread and far better than I could have. Maybe the Catholic church insists nobody can leave because it makes their number look better. Either way, their arrogance is amazing.</p>
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<p>Thanks to zoosermom (post 102), I am reminded that I meant to echo this sentiment. Evidently, I was too busy up there on my high horse to come back to this point, which I do believe is important.</p>
<p>Clearly, I have points of significant disagreement with the Church. Currently, the Church does some things that I think are outrageous. But when I denigrate the entire Church rather than criticizing those actions that I think deserve criticism, and especially if I do so in a way that is derisive, I am neglecting a lot of good that the Church does, and I am in the wrong.</p>
<p>As nauseated I am made by some of the more offensive comments made on this thread or any thread with even a remote attachment to the Catholic Church (Manti T’eo), I deeply appreciate the civil comments made by those outside the faith. To be challenged is a valid exercise for the faithful. When the topic is as sensitive as religion, it is much easier to throw off heat instead of light.</p>
<p>Agree with everyone who wants to keep the discussion civil otherwise this thread will be locked down.</p>
<p>I have many good experiences having BEEN a Catholic. I believe the education I received was excellent and far better than I would have receivd in the public schools. My small all-girls high school was a safe place to experience the teen years and allowed me to flourish. </p>
<p>As I said, I choose to no longer be a Catholic, as I have philisophical issues with many teachings and was taught in parochial school that we MUST accept these teachings in order to be a pure Catholic. Others may choose to still belong and disagree with the church’s stance on these issues, but I cannot.</p>
<p>I was born and raised catholic by a very Catholic family. It’s in my blood that I am catholic. I wouldn’t trade that upbringing. But I have every right to disagree with some of the church teachings/attitudes that go against what I have been taught. Part of the problem is that So many variants have been taught by various religious people. There is a wide range of Catholic philosophies being taught. The nuns that I had in high school taught me to be a free thinker. Does that make me any less catholic? There is always room for change. I Have left the Catholic Church, Go to a church that’s more in line with my philosophy But I still consider myself a Catholic. I think it’s shameful for what the Catholic Church has become of today. And yes there are many wonderful religious And lay people Who have devoted their lives to making the church a better place.</p>
<p>All mainstream Christian churches, including Catholics, accept certain of each others’ sacraments, including baptisms performed by an ordained minister or priest, and marriages performed in each other’s churches. In fact, I was married by both a priest and a Protestant minister who administered the sacrament of marriage together.</p>
<p>Clarification…neither the priest nor the minister “administered” the sacrament of your marriage. you and your spouse were the ministers of that sacrament. The priest was just there as the official Church witness. Marrying couples are the ministers of the sacrament, not the priest. The priest doesn’t lay hands on the couple, doesn’t rub oil on them, doesn’t pour water on them. The vows said to each other and sexual intercourse are the elements of the sacrament. </p>
<p>if you’re stranded on an island with your beloved, you still have the sacrament of matrimony available to you. When all the priests and bishops were executed in Japan, the Catholic faithful had two sacraments available for themselves…baptism and marriage…because a priest isn’t necessary for either.</p>
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<p>Totally understandable that you feel that way. </p>
<p>however, for the many “former Catholics” who do “come home,” it sure is a huge relief for them to learn how easy the process usually is.</p>
<p>There won’t be an American pope because the US is already seen as being too powerful in the Church and in the World. </p>
<p>Catholics in the US are by far the largest contributors to the Church and her charities.</p>
<p>*Quote:
But I’m disturbed by the willingness some have shown here to condemn an entire faith in mocking or inflammatory terms.
*</p>
<p>It always happens here when there’s any opportunity to bash the Church. Oh well, the Church is both human and Divine…it will outlast anything thrown at it.</p>
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<p>I would rather not get into a debate on religion, since it violates the TOS, but considering some of the views held such as on creationism (again, this depends on your POV) and maybe on personal experiences, I completely understand why some people regard this religion in contempt.</p>
<p>^^
???</p>
<p>The Catholic Church doesn’t teach Creationism as is taught by fundamentalist Christian churches. The Catholic Church doesn’t teach that the universe is only several thousand years old. The Church readily accepts that the universe is billions of years old. The Church doesn’t expect people to believe that the world was created in six 24 hour periods. The Church doesn’t teach that the Bible should be literally translated in every instance. </p>
<p>however, the Church does believe that the world exists because God, the Creator, created the world out of nothing. God, the Creator, is the First Cause.</p>
<p>Thanks mom2collegekids. My husband has been teaching evolution in a Catholic high school for decades. I never cease to be amazed by the number of people who erroneously link Catholicism to creationism.</p>
<p>Hmm back when I was in sunday school that was what the priests taught and even berated a boy for asking ‘how do they know.’ but obviously things changed however I still know many catholics that doggedly deny evolution and the big bang and friends who detest such catholics for that reason. I didn’t say that the Catholic Church teaches or endorses creationism, simply meant that some catholics still hold that view and is such a cause for contempt by others.</p>
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You have, ahem, interesting “friends”.</p>
<p>I remember John Paul ll talking about it in 1996, but even before I wasn’t taught that in school. There have always been fringe groups in every religion that hold tight to beliefs. Even in the 50’s Pope Pius XII confirmed that there is no intrinsic conflict between Christianity and the theory of evolution, provided that Christians believe that the individual soul is a direct creation by God and not the product of purely material forces.</p>
<p>I think that we believers should be a little more humble, frankly. It’s tempting to criticize non-believers for not knowing our faith, or those who have left the church because they equate the bad theology or the horrible sins of the few, with the teaching of the church.</p>
<p>But the responsibility is ours. We are the ones who show the face of the church to others. It is up to us to make sure the church does not abuse children; and if they do, to follow our responsibility under civil law. We should not be quite so angry with others for reacting to wide spread abuse if we have shirked that responsibility (and by we, I’m including church hierarchy as well as those of us in the pews). </p>
<p>And perhaps we shouldn’t be quite so quick to find fault with people who aren’t clear on theology if the local ministers and priests and other Christians that they run across, muddle it up themselves. That responsibility is ours, and the humility should be ours. The inherent temptation of faith has always been arrogance, and we should be very careful that we don’t get confused on that point.</p>
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I am always amazed by how many people don’t realize that there are different denominations among Christians. I belong to a very liberal Protestant denomination and I can’t tell you how many people of different faiths think all Christians are the fundamentalist variety.</p>
<p>Wow, hayden #118 - terrific post!</p>