Pope Francis

Parent Cafe
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<p>Please keep this thread sane and refrain from political accusations so it will stay open ;)</p>

<p>I would like to continue our thoughts about the new Pope. </p>

<p>I LOVE the fact that he is trying to be such a simple man. Simple cross, the least elaborate clothing possible, going back for supper in a bus with all the cardinals, not in his special limousine…
All I am reading about him makes me happy that he has been selected as the new leader of Catholics! </p>

<p>I was a little girl growing up in Poland when cardinal Wojtyla has been chosen to lead the church as John Paul II. I feel almost the same excitement today!</p>

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<p>I was a little girl growing up in Poland when cardinal Wojtyla has been chosen to lead the church as John Paul II. I feel almost the same excitement today!</p>

<p>:)</p>

<p>I once had a client who was born in Poland and baptized by Pope John Paul II when he was a young priest. </p>

<p>Yes! Please keep this thread civil. We should be able to have a positive thread without the hate. </p>

<p>I was moved by the photo of the new pope where he’s washing the feet of AIDS victims.</p>

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<p>I’m not Christian, much less Catholic, and I’m interested in knowing in what way the identity of the Pope actually impacts a practicing Catholic’s life. It seems there’s always much hoopla over the departure of one Pope and the selection of the next, but then we non-Catholics don’t hear much about the Pope after the initial excitement dies down–except when he travels abroad. So, my questions for the practicing Catholics here: Beyond the novelty of his being a non-European and Jesuit, what does the ascension of Pope Francis mean to you, and why? How will it affect your Catholic identity and practice? Why does it matter to you who the Pope is at any given time?</p>

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<p>Well, there was some interest in my family, as I am probably the only non-practicing Catholic in it. One of my nieces even attended Notre Dame. So far, I’ve only heard positive things about this new pope. I was surprised he was in his 70s, as commentators were guessing they might be trying to find someone in his 60s. There sure are a lot of issues that the Catholic church needs to address and according to the comentators, hopefully this pope will do so.</p>

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<p>My daughter called from work to let me know that white smoke was rising. (I have no idea how she knew or heard.) I turned on the TV and watched.</p>

<p>My nephew called his mother and sister to let them know white smoke was rising. He was in St. Peter’s Square and was beyond excited. He’s a young priest and flew to Rome (using his hard-earned savings) to be part of the moment. He also got to see Pope Francis yesterday, though I have no idea exactly what that means (in a group of priests, maybe?)</p>

<p>I’ll hear more once he gets back in the U.S.</p>

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<p>To me, the Pope has always been someone with knowledge that no one else has. I remember that the visions of Our Lady to the children, she gave secrets that only the Pope could know. Now, because he has this knowledge, he has to lead his people, knowing these secrets, but not giving them away as to scare his people. I know, a childish concept, but one in which I think is a lot like how Jesus dealt with his followers in his time. He knew that bad things were going to happen to him, and in fact, he knows all things, but rather than telling them to throw in the towel, it’s going to end bad, he stresses the positive things and gives his people hope.</p>

<p>As for “changes” in the Church, I grew up in the 60s and saw a lot of “procedural” changes in Mass in my lifetime. I remember the High Mass, the Latin Mass, only taking Eucharist on my tongue, and at a kneeling bar, at that, to now having female altar servers and deacons doing many of the things that only the priest would do. I remember being surprised that a deacon, not a priest, would baptize my son. All these changes are things we as Catholics adapt to, because we still hold to our basic beliefs as Catholics.</p>

<p>Now, these changes came about, I believe, through such things as Vatican II, or whatever the big conference was called. I never got the impression that those were rules that the Pope, and the Pope alone, made, but rather, were decisions made by a group of leaders in the Catholic Church.</p>

<p>Now, all of these views come from a regular Church attending Catholic, who went to Catholic school all her life, except for college, whose whole family was educated in the Catholic school system, so these are things I just took in through my schooling, my family, and homilies at church. I’m sure a scholar on the Catholic church will quickly point out many errors in my interpretation, but I still hold the basic beliefs that a Catholic holds. We all are different in our views of our faith. I travel a lot, and try to attend Mass if I’m away from home on a Sunday, and I can tell you, from parish to parish, you’re going to hear different tones in the sermons. It is what makes us survivors for all these years, we are individuals and are open to otherss thinking.</p>

<p>As a mother, daughter and sister of Jesuit educated men and women, I can tell you that they truly are men and women for others, and they are truly intellectuals. They will have wonderful discussions with you on a variety of topics, and they will respect your views, even if they are in conflict with theirs.</p>

<p>I am excited about this new Pope in the guidance that I hope he brings to all the world, no matter the faith, as a leader, an example, and a peer.</p>

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<p>I am not a practicing Catholic, but was raised Catholic and I am very excited about the new Pope. I am thrilled he is Jesuit and seems humble and wise. Even the name, Francis is thoughful and connected to the prayer of St. Francis, which is so beautiful. People can criticize Catholics for many things, but I have always been impressed with their dedication to education, healthcare and service to the poor. So many schools, hospitals and outreach programs were started and are still run by Catholics. To throw the baby out with the bathwater, because of some of the events in the Catholic Church doesn’t seem fair. The wheels of change move slowly, but move they do.</p>

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<p>I think he’s an interesting choice, but it’s tough to say why without getting somewhat political. I’ll try to do that without crossing a line.</p>

<p>I see Francis as a candidate the factions could all accept. There is clearly a reform movement. There is always a reform movement, but we focus more on it now given all the scandals. (We forget the past history of scandals, including the Vatican Bank - which continues lurking in the background.) So we like to see this as a battle of reform versus not reform, with the specific meaning that the pope will attack this specific problem and other associated messes, much as Hercules cleaned the Augean Stables. </p>

<p>I see it differently. I see reform as inchoate, as a word representing something other than business as usual with only the front edge of that word defined, meaning we think only about pedophilia and not what greater reform really is. </p>

<p>So I think Francis is a form of reform without being that specific reform referred to above. But what kind of reform? I think the entire point is in the name and his intentionally humble way of life. If Ratzinger was about discipline within the Church, Francis is about spiritual discipline. </p>

<p>So the point of the new pope is, I think, an appeal to spiritual discipline. That makes sense. </p>

<p>It is not, unfortunately, good news for non-Catholics or for people within or connected to but disaffected from the Catholic Church because the Church defines what your spiritual discipline must be. That interests me theologically because it combines power and anti-power, the humble and the anti-humble. But I have to stop here.</p>

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<p>MommaJ</p>

<p>My entire life was changed by the apostolate of one pope. </p>

<p>I was poorly catechized in the 70’s and was suspended between apathy and disillusion. By the time i got to college the Church felt irrelevant.</p>

<p>I returned to the Church because of Pope John Paul II. His call for the “New Evangelism” spoke to me with stunning clarity. Though I was baptized as a Catholic at infancy I studied with those hoping to enter the Church as converts. It was Catholicism 101. I felt like I finally “got it.” When I married my husband he was a Lutheran/agnostic. We married in the Church to keep my Mother happy. About 10 years after my reconversion, and 15 years into our marriage, my husband came into the faith.</p>

<p>So our daily life is different in every way because of a pope. Being Catholic, attempting to live in full communion, affects how we spend our time, how we educate our sons, what we do with our money, how we treat others, what medical interventions we would pursue, how we vote, how we eat, and what we do for fun.</p>

<p>I pray that Pope Francis will be able to rid the Church of the filth of pedophilia. For too many people that is the face of my religion. It breaks my heart that so many have been repelled from knowing all that is good in the Church by this horrifying stain.</p>

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<p>So true. My husband converted when my son received his First Communion. While we are no Bible thumpers, our attendance at Mass and our involvement in our Church is an integral part of our lives. We still both attend both the parish Men’s and Ladies’ clubs, although our son is long out of the parish’s grammar school. We go to all the church activities, the May Fair, the Crawfish Cookoff, Octoberfest, and are happy to buy as many Girl Scout cookies and Boy Scout popcorn as our tummies can hold.</p>

<p>I have many aunts who left the Church because you used to not be able to come back to Church once you divorced. These were devout women, but because they had the misfortune of being married to adulterers and wife beaters, they no longer felt welcome in their church.</p>

<p>Now, we no longer have that stigma, and many of our most active couples are those that are Yours Mine and Ours families.</p>

<p>My son recently took a class where he read the Divine Comedy. I remember typing my sister’s term paper on the classic, and learning of the corruption in the Church back then, and of course, learning about the Great Schism during my theology classes in Catholic high school. Yes, they actually teach us about the good and the bad, and indeed, about other religions, in Catholic school. It is not all about the March for Life and who to vote for and who can and can’t get married, but about how we can live as Christ in our everyday lives.</p>

<p>As my husband was not raised Catholic, I have many inlaws and relatives on his side who are not Catholic, and believe me, there was an upcry. Many an ancestor is said to have rolled over in their tomb upon the announcement of our engagement, but in the end, many of those same relatives have told me that the best thing my husband has ever done is to join the Catholic faith. It is, indeed, what has made him the good man he is today.</p>

<p>I am thrilled at the choice of the name Francis. If only we could all live by the words of St. Francis, the world would be so much a better place.</p>

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<p>Raised Catholic, now Episcopalian here.</p>

<p>I am very excited about Pope Francis. He seems to be a humble man and dedicated to serving the poor. I have hope that he will focus on ministry to the less fortunate. </p>

<p>Saw on TV this AM the Pope checked out of where he was staying, thanked the staff and carried his own bag. I like this man!</p>

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<p>Doesn’t seem like much will change; he’s conservative in theology and backs the Vatican on most, if not all, major issues.</p>

<p>Also he is European- both his parents are Italian.</p>

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<p>He might be a nice man but I don’t see anything changing anytime soon. Like in our lifetime.</p>

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<p>From devout Irish Catholic family - now a happy Presbyterian. </p>

<p>I am so excited by the selection. He seems to be a truly humble, loving man. I think he is going to shake things up and restore credibility to the papacy.</p>

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<p>“It is not, unfortunately, good news for non-Catholics or for people within or connected to but disaffected from the Catholic Church because the Church defines what your spiritual discipline must be.”</p>

<p>I don’t know about that. I’m a non-Catholic who aspires to a number of Catholic/Jesuit/Franciscan values, particularly the need to love and forgive our neighbors, concern for the poor and sick, stewardship of the earth and its creatures, the responsibility to educate, and our obligation for physical works to aid those in need (as opposed to just “loving” them in principle or praying for them). If the new pope brings global attention to those values and inspires Catholics to work harder to live them out, that’s good for the world.</p>

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<p>As a student of the early Church and a follower of much of its history - though less in the last few hundred years - I’d say corruption is less now than in the past but that information flow has made one specific form of corruption more visibile and has transformed that into something larger. </p>

<p>But regarding Francis, I think many people don’t understand that failure is expected. We are human. When a person becomes pope, we then either glide past the bad parts - Ratzinger wasn’t so much a member of the Hitler Youth as maybe he could have been and this guy wasn’t as complicit, through silence or whatever, in the Argentine Dirty War - or we emphasize it. That misses the point: no one is perfect. The guy is just the head of a church. </p>

<p>And the so-called doctrine of papal infallability comes out the medieval era and wasn’t codified until the late 19thC. Nor is it understood: the pope isn’t infallible but is only infallible when it comes to defining doctrine for Catholics. That’s like saying the pope is pope and you gotta do what the pope says if you’re in the Church. I think it would be better if he admitted he screwed up during the Dirty War but, hey, he’s only a guy who happens to be pope and I’m not Catholic.</p>

<p>This is where I see the reform part of Francis: a focus on the spiritual reform becomes the dogma of the Church itself just because he’s pope, which means you will hear more in your weekly sermons about the essentials of faith and life. These are intended to stir you to act in accordance with belief, even as the vast machinery of Church obedience teaches you that you must act in accordance with these beliefs. Ratzinger focused on the obedience part and Francis shifts the emphasis to the other part.</p>

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<p>I am not sure if it is flowdown from the Vatican, but certain words within the Mass were recently changed, our priests have been reading very political letters written by the Bishop, and they have instituted strict attendance rules for kids wishing to make their Confirmation.</p>

<p>At least locally, our church seems to be losing most of the next generation of Catholics. The news report yesterday was comparing the US hopes for reform under Pope Francis with the rest of the world’s hopes for a more traditional church.</p>

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<p>If anything, the announcement of a new Pope may lead people who have left the Church to come back to it, maybe going to Mass, belonging to their Church community, and they may be pleasantly surprised to find that the reasons for their leaving are no longer present, or are not as important to them as they once were. There may be a new pastor at their church, or the sermons may tend more to helping others, rather than the constant political preaching that may be done on certain weekends, or that may be pushed for by certain leaders in the community.</p>

<p>I hope Francis lives a long and blessed life, and that his influence can be felt around the world.</p>

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<p>I’m a Catholic. I go to mass on Sundays. However, there is a lot the Church teaches that I disagree with. And, I know that a lot of priests and nuns do too. </p>

<p>My impression of Pope Benedict was that he thought the best way for the Church to move forward was as a smaller, “purer” Church-- a church with less dissent. He may well be right. It’s a tactical decision. However, as someone who has been accused of being a “cafeteria Catholic,” I wasn’t happy with the pope. I know him to be a good, spiritual man. I know he was doing what he thought best. But it seemed to me he wanted a return to the 1950s, to a pre-Vatican II Church, when Catholics accepted everything the clergy did unconditionally. </p>

<p>Now, I don’t expect this pope to change doctrine. However, I truly hope that he will deal differently with dissent. I am hoping for someone who will try to build consensus within the Church, who will return to the “big tent” days. I don’t want someone who, like Benedict, tells nuns who think women should be able to be ordained, that they are forbidden from discussing the issue. He can say they are wrong; I expect him to do that. I just don’t want him to try to silence people from expressing opinions. </p>

<p>I want a pope who rewards the members of the hierarchy who have spoken out and done something about child abuse. A wonderful gesture would be to make the archbishop of Dublin a cardinal immediately. ( If you don’t know about it, when he became archbishop, Bishop Martin immediately turned over Church files about sexual abuse to the civil authorities --files which his predecessors had fought tooth and nail to keep out of their hands. ) I want him to appoint some of those reformers with courage to jobs within the Vatican itself and back them while they root out corruption. </p>

<p>I want a pope that reaches out to other faiths. </p>

<p>I want a pope that even people who don’t believe in God will watch and think “This is truly a good man, a person I can respect.” In brief, I want a pope who will lead the Church that celebrates "God is Love, " instead of “God is no.”</p>

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<p>Wonderfully stated, Jonri!</p>