I would suspect that many schools try to have a diverse group of orientation leaders, for reasons alh explained pretty well. My daughter’s orientation group was diverse but her school is also pretty diverse (about 50% white according to common data set).
I don’t believe that Ohio State is racism free nor do I believe racism is running the campus because the campus is 77% white. I do believe the choice of orientation leaders was deliberate and very inclusive and I applaud that. My point was actually that in our current environment there are many accusations thrown out that if you are white and privilaged you are racist. I don’t believe that to be true at all.
It’s been said over and over again that until you have lived in my skin you can’t judge how I’ve been treated. I agree 100% with that. The problem is I can’t change my skin color so I will never know that. But when I verbally express equality it’s thrown back at me. What is the answer? I truly don’t know. But I do know that the current environment is not productive. I stated that I did not see color, or sexual orientation or ethnicity or handicaps when the day started and people say I should have. Why? I saw equality. I saw students of different origins enjoying their work together. I saw a group of People that I would be happy to have my child be friends with. Yet by the end I felt that we as the audience were the ones being judged. It wasn’t about the idea of the skit that bothered me because I’m all for diversity. It was about the tone that was used and unfortunately that can’t be conveyed in a post.
I’m sincere when I say that I listen to all of you with open ears and try to see things from all angles. I truly don’t know the answer but I don’t believe the tone being used these days is productive.
By the way… The school I have been referring to is not Ohio State!,
“The forgetting is habit, is yet another necessary component of the Dream. They have forgotten the scale of theft that enriched them in slavery; the terror that allowed them, for a century, to pilfer the vote; the segregationist policy that gave them their suburbs. They have forgotten, because to remember would tumble them out of the beautiful Dream and force them to live down here with us, down here in the world. I am convinced that the Dreamers, at least the Dreamers of today, would rather live white than live free. In the Dream they are Buck Rogers, Prince Aragorn, an entire race of Skywalkers. To awaken them is to reveal that they are an empire of humans and, like all empires of humans, are built on the destruction of the body. It is to stain their nobility, to make them vulnerable, fallible, breakable humans.”
― Ta-Nehisi Coates, Between the World and Me
We who are white are welcome in the world. We are the dreamers Ta-Nehisi Coates describes. The point of these exercises is to wake us white folks up and help those who may not always feel welcome feel that way as they start college. imho.
If you don’t need waking up, great. Others do need it. I hope I can wake up and see reality before I die.
I may be wrong, but I interpreted @bhs1978 's post to mean that she did not feel uncomfortable with the substance of the skit (and actually welcomed it), but with the way it was delivered, and the fact that it left out one or two groups. I could see that being a bit off-putting.
I also think she’s saying that she didn’t notice the various ethnicities and sexual orientations (if the latter was even noticeable) because, to her, people are people. That’s a good thing, isn’t it? To have a skit like this is, IMO, a positive thing because it can help minority students, and it can help widen all minds. Maybe, however, they could also have been sensitive to all groups, including the majority, and have done it in a way that didn’t seem accusatory, as she interpreted it, anyway.
My kids and I have a lot of good friends and family members of various ethnicities and sexual orientations; I’m not a bigot in thought, word, or action. I don’t want to be seen as one simply because I’m white. Maybe she felt that way, too.
Am I right, @bhs1978 ?
Edited to add: I didn’t notice bhs’ most recent comment because I was writing this between busy-ness.
Several years ago, I edited an academic paper for a black woman. Her research consisted of returning to her hometown, in the deep South, and interviewing people. I think her main question, to all participants, was “when did you first feel different?” Nearly universally, the white people said they never felt different. The only exceptions were some who were Jewish or otherwise not members of the dominant religious faith in the community. All the black people could remember when they first felt different, and it was when they were young children. Few commentaries about race and identity have struck me as much as they one did and still does.
One thing that’s stayed with me for years is an interview I read in a local magazine with a prominent, successful black woman. She talked about how irritating it was to her when someone said that they were “colorblind” or “don’t see color”. She felt that this was akin to saying, “You’re invisible”, because of COURSE there are differences in skin color that one cannot help but see. She felt we should not just SEE these differences, but celebrate them. And I see that in my D and her friends of various races and colors and cultures. They ENJOY sharing and talking about them.
Perhaps that was the point of the exercise that so bothered @bhs1978 - rather than being “accusatory” they were hoping you and others would actually see THEM rather than some whitewashed version of “no color”.
“Feeling excluded because some insist we acknowledge who they are is maybe not the response for which the organizers were going.”
This is a prickly point, @alh. Not seeing/not knowing/not valuing/not devaluing are all part of what we must figure out in this calculus of how to fully appreciate the other without opening the baggage we each drag around.
Yes, those types of things get said loudly by some noisy activists. I do not agree with them either.
What is the overall student population like at that college? Trying to put into context the orientation student’s comment about not seeing anyone who looked like her.
It’s possible that the presentation that @bhs1978 attended just wasn’t very good. Maybe it was preachy and insulting rather than thought provoking and engaging. I like to think that I try to be a good person, and I mentally argue with people who seem to be telling me what I think. Maybe it was a good idea that wasn’t executed well.
I will say that I don’t believe anyone that says that they don’t see color. Whenever I encounter anyone, I notice what they look like, because, well, I have eyes.
And I believe that little kids notice color as well, because they also have eyes. How they interpret what they see is influenced by how they are raised. When my son was around 3, he’d hang around with his big sister’s friends when they came over. One day when a little girl was coming over, I’ll never forget him asking me,
“What kind of face does she have?”
What the heck?
“Is it a brown face or a pink face?”
I don’t even remember who was coming over, but he just wanted to know.
It’s possible to see color, to notice it, and, yes, to absolutely celebrate differences, and yet to simultaneously register it as not mattering because people are people–that color doesn’t really matter to who they are as a person, to their essence (even though it’s obviously part of their background)–in the same way that I see different colored hair, different styles, etc., (no matter what race), and think how interesting and wonderful the differences are, yet, at the same time, see beyond it all. It doesn’t mean that the person is invisible to me or that I claim not to see color. Quite the contrary…
@myloves, I think that’s the goal.
Yes, that is the goal.
I was trying to define what people might mean when they say they don’t see color or are color blind. It doesn’t necessarily mean that one is not telling the truth about not seeing color (as intimated above) or that people of other colors than oneself are invisible to the person (as the lady in the magazine apparently thought and felt). Instead, it is everything I explained in my post above. At least it is for me…
I like what you wrote, and how you feel. I do think that’s the goal. I didn’t mean to come off snarky. I also think that the “I don’t see color” comment isn’t honest. Maybe I’m just inundated with Facebook memes where 10 minutes after an “I don’t see color” post comes by a “why don’t they all get jobs and respect police” post follows.
I have to say that even though I agree with you, the “I don’t see color” thing doesn’t ring true.
And I’ve been criticized, years ago, on this site, because I said that I didn’t refer to race in my conversations. I didn’t (and don’t) say “I ran into this black guy today, and he said…” I would say " I ran into this guy, and he said…"
Unless his race had something to do with my story.
Still not sure if I’m ducking the race issue, or if I’m just being “politically correct.” I really hate that, but that whole telling what race the person in your story about buying olives at the supermarket has bugged me since the 70’s. I’ve noticed that my children just call their friends by name, and don’t tell me their race unless it’s part of the narrative.
@myloves Yes. Thank you. You seem to understand where I am coming from.
@ucbalumnus. The make up of the school I’m referring to claims 60% white while 7% of students identified as Asian
In the US I found this breakdown:
"Non-Hispanic whites make up 63 percent of the U.S.; Hispanics, 17 percent; blacks, 12.3 percent; Asians, 5 percent; and multiracial Americans, 2.4 percent. About 353 of the nation’s 3,143 counties, or 11 percent, are now “majority-minority.”
This would indicate that this particular school is slightly more diverse than the general US population and that the Asian population is slightly higher than the general US population.
I struggle with the whole “is noticing someone’s race racist” dilemma. I don’t feel that one race is inherently worse than any other. I do notice skin differences, but I don’t go out of my way to avoid or mistreat anyone merely because of that. For instance, there was a young black woman who sat in front of me in one of my classes. She would wear the most charming colored jacket-hat-scarf combinations that I thought complimented her skin tone and figure. Was that racist? I don’t think so or else red carpets would be also.
But I could be wrong.
–@HotCanary , you didn’t come off as snarky to me.
I am unfamiliar with the olives in the grocery store story, so I (unsuccessfully) tried to find it online. While I was looking, I found this article, in which the author says she “reached out to a diverse cross-section of POC—smart, thoughtful, incisive public figures who often speak and write smartly, thoughtfully and incisively on race—to gather their thoughts. This is the resulting roundup of their suggestions. Consider it a sort of open letter to white allies who want to do the hard work of truly working to fight racism.”
This is one of those instances. I’m sure that most people who say they “don’t see color” don’t mean something negative by this. It’s just a way of saying that they are not considering that a factor in their interactions, whether in hiring, friendships, etc. If someone takes it as negative when it is not meant that way, how does that help anyone? What should the person say which would not be offensive?
Also, is it racist, when describing someone to another person for clarification, to say the person is “black/white/Hispanic/Indian?” For example, D2 might tell a story about one of her co-workers at an ice cream shop. I can’t remember all of workers’ names, and I’d like to know about whom she is talking; I like to get to know her friends a bit through her stories. There’s a large group of teen workers there, so describing age doesn’t help. There are a lot of dark haired girls there. Is it racist if I were to ask, “Is that the black girl with long hair?” It’d be a descriptor, like height, eye color, or any other physical attribute, not a comment about her skin color or hair style.
It’s ridiculous to tiptoe around race in identifying whom you are talking about. I certainly don’t mean that. I think that my feelings about this are difficult to translate, and aren’t anything other than my feelings.
I do believe that when SOME people say they don’t see color they mean that, of course, they see it but it doesn’t matter. When my son was in elementary school he was telling me about a boy he wanted to invite to his birthday party. We were outside after school and he was describing him so I could go speak to the mother. He mentioned his back pack, the color of his jacket and the fact that his mom was exiting a blue car. He did not mention that the boy was black. Did he see that? Of course he did but it was apparently not important to him. Pretty sure he wasn’t just trying to be politically correct.