Practically Torn in Two

Parents Forum
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<p>I know it’s way too early to be worrying, but this is bothering me in a very profound way. I am applying/have applied to Purdue and Notre Dame.</p>

<p>Truly, I am not out to be over-confident, but I am relatively certain that I will be accepted to ND. I fell in love with the campus when I visited (great atmosphere, no vehicles allowed so I won’t get run over :D, it didn’t seem as though there were major divisions among the student body), and I know they have a great rep. Plus, they just built a new undergrad science building, and biochem is my tentative major. Notre Dame has great aid, and they claim that average debt is $8,000 after all four years. </p>

<p>Even though they aren’t in the same league, I regard Purdue as highly as I do Notre Dame. The campus is ugly and urban, but I could live with that. Because of my study focus and my career plans (equine veterinarian), Purdue is very attractive. There is also a highly selective program known as the Vet Scholars Program that essentially guarantees admission to the College of Veterinary Medicine before the lucky scholars even crack a college textbook. Essentially, as part of the Vet Scholars program, I must commit to Purdue come May 1st without knowing whether I have been accepted as a Vet Scholar (decisions come out in June/July). Like HYP admissions, it’s an absolute crap shoot, but I am prepared to take it head on. And because of the stress that I put myself under over the course of the last almost four years, I stand to receive nearly $50,000 from Purdue in “university-wide” merit aid alone.</p>

<p>To make everything worse, I love all my teachers, and I’m pretty sure that they like me just as well, and I am stuck in the position of the vicarious vessel for all the people in the community who never made it out of Muncie. They all want me to go to Notre Dame.</p>

<p>I could probably be happy at Notre Dame, but Purdue is actively “courting”
me, I guess, and that feels awfully good. It almost seems, too, that I stand to gain more from Purdue than from ND. I keep catching myself hoping that ND will reject me just so that I don’t have to make a choice, but I know that is extremely counterproductive. I just feel like I will be letting everyone down by picking the “good old state school”. And then there are also the people absolutely gunning for me to go to Purdue who don’t know about my ND aspirations. My mom keeps telling me that I’m a big girl, so I guess maybe I need some reassurance or something like that :).</p>

<p>I know this was long and scatter-brained, but such is the nature of my writing, so thanks for taking your time.</p>

<p>EMK</p>

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<p>MissMichelle, it’s too early to be so anxious about this. You should certainly apply to both schools, and others in a variety of selectivity/financial aid levels. Be sure to give yourself the opportunity to have several good options in April. By that time, your interests and desires may have changed and you can make an intelligent choice. Right now, your only choice is which schools to apply to. Please make sure that you give yourself many options in spring, both with regard to financial aid and your chances of acceptance.</p>

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<p>From the little I know (which is not much), admissions to a vet program are extremely tight (more difficult than med school, and almost as difficulty as the Beverly Community College Nursing Program), so the real question is whether they will translate their “courting” into an offer in the Vet Scholars program. </p>

<p>At some future point, after admissions are over, after the financial aid offers are real and you’ve got real costs in front of them, you get on the phone to the relevant party at Purdue (if they haven’t already made a commitment to you) and you say, “Now, look. I would love to come to Purdue, and I am prepared to do so. I have other offers, but I am willing to turn them down. But my career aspirations are such that I need to be in the Vet Scholars program.” And then you see what they say. They might come through, if they really want you, or they might not, but you’ll never know unless you ask. </p>

<p>You’ll won’t be letting anyone down unless you make the choice that isn’t really the right one FOR YOU. You are the only one that counts. Think of how it might feel if you ended up at ND and then you didn’t end up in vet school. It might actually feel okay at that point - but it might not. And that’s what you have to weigh.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>MissMichelle, one step at a time! It sounds like you’ve identified 2 great schools and the chances are decent you’ll get into them. An great position! What bothers you is where to go from here…</p>

<p>First off, you might spend some time looking a bit more into decision-making. Its not really something taught in most schools, nor is it something HS kids have a lot of experience with on a significant level. So its understandable the anxiety you feel. There are several books that can help you with this. One I highly recommend is “Smart Choices” by Hammond. It will help you make a careful and rational decision.</p>

<p>Now to take 2 steps back. First question is why are you sure vet is right for you? Have you worked in a vets office or had significant exposure to the practice? Sometimes HS kids don’t have a clear view of what a career means day-to-day, and as a junior you have time now to volunteer/work during school to make sure you’re heading down the right track before you send off college apps next year. And while I have no personal knowledge of the Vet Scholar program I would imagine it requires essays as well as grades and test scores, and an essay based on experiences with vets is much more compelling than one that basically says I like animals and know vet science must be right for me.</p>

<p>2nd, there is no need to rush the decision. If you apply to both then you’ll have both offers in hand regarding financial aid, and can make the best decision then.</p>

<p>3rd, “courting” is a concept I’d be cautious about. I don’t know what Purdue is doing; if deans are personally calling you then they ARE courting you. But if its just letters and so on, that’s called mass marketing. A lot of kids are disappointed in the spring due to this, and I think its a bit dishonest on the college’s part. Top schools will write letters saying “we’re impressed by what you’ve achieved”, “you’d be one of our top applicants”, and so on, doing everyone possible to imply to kids they’re going to be accepted, then in the spring they are rejected. The letters were just come-on’s to drum up apps. It sounds like you’re one of the better students Purdue has seen and I don’t doubt the scholarships and so on are real; just keep in mind they’re sending the same offers and letters to every other kid they can find like you; the “courting” is likely being done by a Windows computer, not a real human being.</p>

<p>4th, other people want the best for you. That’s cool. But you’re living your life, not theirs. Don’t let them make their dreams and hopes become your dreams and hopes. If Notre Dame is the best of the 2 choices (and I’ve known several people who’ve gone there, its a wonderful school) then take it, but if Purdue is better then take it with a clear conscience. You’re not letting anybody down, you’re making the right choice, and if they really cared about you then that’s what they’d want you to do.</p>

<p>I guess my post was a bit rambling, too, so here’s a summary. Learn more about what vets do if you aren’t already intimately familiar with the field. Read a book about decision making so you can learn techniques for weighing options, considering alternatives, etc. Then apply what you’ve learned to make the best choice for you and take it without regrets. Best of luck :)</p>

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<p>sjmom, mini, and mikemac: thanks to each of you for your reassurances :)</p>

<p>sjmom–Thank you for calming me down; I was really in a frenzy. Maybe it’s not the correct thing to do, but I am only applying to three schools (IU, Purdue, & Notre Dame). I have significant reasons for remaining in IN at least through my undergrad years, and I really can’t afford to go to an out-of-state school anyway. </p>

<p>mini–you are correct about admissions to vet school. The Vet Scholars program is completely separate from Purdue admissions except for that little thing called acceptance to Purdue’s undergrad program ;)</p>

<p>mikemac–thank you for the book idea! As for why I aspire to be a vet, I have grown up around critters. At least since sixth grade it has been the answer to that eternal question, “what do you want to be when you grow up?” I know what it is like to be kicked, bitten, trodden upon, and what it is like to have an animal die. Since mid-February of my junior year, I have been volunteering at a local small animal hospital, and as part of my senior curriculum, I am riding with a mobile large animal veterinarian twice a week. You are also very correct about the test scores, essays, etc. Fortunately, I have the class rank, scores, and animal experience covered; all I need is to write the essay and extract some letters from my two “mentors”. Thirdly, you are right again. I tend to obsess about things :(. I probably used the word “courting” inappropriately, but I have always wanted to, soo…:smiley: But the letter was signed in ink, and I was one of only 300 or so people to receive that same letter…</p>

<p>Thank you all again…I feel better</p>

<p>EMK</p>

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<p>"Essentially, as part of the Vet Scholars program, I must commit to Purdue come May 1st without knowing whether I have been accepted as a Vet Scholar (decisions come out in June/July). "</p>

<p>You need to see if you can get a little more background on this - who is accepted, who isn’t. Talk to the vet that you work with - he or she may know someone that has gotten a protege into it. I really disapprove of this - very unfair to the students. </p>

<p>The advantage of Purdue is that if you are not accepted into Vet Scholars, you should have the contacts that will enable you to continuing volunteering so that you will have good ref’s if you need to apply to vet school. Would you be eligible for an honors program of some sort so that you will have a better shot at taking the courses you want?</p>

<p>In the mean time, I hope that you are applying to more than the two schools. Ohio State’s equine program is very good; good stats with their colic surgery, I believe (again - big state - you would want the Honors program). Another idea is to consider LAC’s in horse country, with good biology departments. Skidmore comes to mind. Lots of practices around Saratoga Springs to work with!</p>

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<p>ohiomom: unfortunately, that is just about all the info I have. Whenever I ask vets or other people about the program, I get blank stares, which is odd because I know the program isn’t a sham. My older sister’s best friend went through the program, and I have talked with her about it, but she was out-of-state, so her admissions situation may have been drastically different. </p>

<p>Also, short of a full-ride scholarship, I don’t think an out-of-state school will be quite worth it for my undergrad. There is always vet school in another state, though! And vet scholars is not binding. I also think that I have a very good shot at Purdue’s honors college(s). </p>

<p>Thanks for the heads-up about Ohio State…I’ll have to look them up:)</p>

<p>EMK</p>

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<p>MissMichelle: if I get what you’re saying, between the lines, is that the prestige of ND would be tough to ignore especially when put up against the standard-it’s-just-plain-old-in-state-Purdue (that’s assuming you get into both and I’m sure Purdue is a lock for you for regular undergraduate admissions). Living in Indiana, I understand what you’re saying, especially the part about people in Muncie wanting you to “get away.”</p>

<p>If I remember this stat correctly, Notre Dame only accepts 6% of all Indiana applicants. It is VERY tough to get into for Indiana residents - even more so if you’re not coming out of one of the state’s catholic high schools. So, it is considered quite an accomplishment to get in. Hard to pass up that allure.</p>

<p>But having seen my D’s friends all go off to different schools including Yale, Duke, Harvard, Swarthmore with the vast majority going to IU and Purdue, what becomes apparent is that it doesn’t matter what school they go to. It’s what they’re doing at those schools and how they’re maximizing their own opportunities there. The friends at IU are all in Kelley school of business. The Purdue kids are pre-med and on track for grad school. And they are ALL having a blast, enjoying their time at college.</p>

<p>If you have the opportunity for a fast-track entrance to the vet school, that would be very tough to pass up simply because it’s at Purdue. Specialized programs like that have a prestige of their own. But even without that, Purdue is still a very good and well regarded school. We tend to overlook that because it’s in our own backyard.</p>

<p>As the other posters said, waiting to see what you get is probably the best course. But my take on this, is don’t sell Purdue short just because it’s the local state school.</p>

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<p>fredo: Are you sure about that 6% figure? Where did you get it? According to the Princeton Review, ND does not consider state residence in admissions. Maybe IN just has lower-quality applicants? Can fredo or anybody else answer this question? I am an IN resident from a non-Catholic high school applying EA, and I am really, really worried now! I thought I had a great shot, but 6% is even worse than Harvard’s acceptance rate!
MissMichelle-Good luck in admissions and deciding where to go!</p>

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<p>I really wish I could remember where I got that stat from - but my memory just plain old stinks nowadays! And it is entirely possibly that I may be WAY off on that. And maybe it’s that only 6% of the students attending are from Indiana.</p>

<p>Anecdotally, I can tell you about the two kids from my D’s class who went to ND. If you live in Indiana, you’ll know our high school (it’s the really big public, perceived-as-wealthy one that everyone in Indiana hates). One kid was the valedictorian (4.0 UW GPA - we don’t weight). Other one was class treasurer and while I don’t know the rank, I know this person applied to mainly Ivy league schools, so I’m assuming a fairly high rank. I don’t know about other applicants who may have been accepted-these are only the two that wound up going.</p>

<p>I’m going to keep searching for where I think I read or heard that statistic. I didn’t mean to scare you! Maybe I am really off on that but if you just check the ND website, you’ll find numbers that show how hard it is to get in. (e.g.44% from catholic high schools, 50th % is in the top 6% of their class).</p>

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<p>There is no doubt that ND is really competitive (I have a lot of the statistics memorized, lol.) I think it is only around 10% instate, hopefully that is the number you were thinking of. And yes, I definitely know the school you mention. You wouldn’t believe the jokes about that town from our part of the state (perceived as rich, snobbish, arrogant, and too dominant in athletics). Everyone I have met from that town (mostly from swimming) has been very friendly, though.</p>

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<p>CollegeBoard.com statistics: ND freshman class is 12% In-state students, 88% out-of-state</p>

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<p>MissMichelle, I have a suggestion for you to consider if you are so fortunate to have to make that decision. That would be to pay the deposit before May 1 to both Purdue and ND. Then you can wait until the vet decision comes out in July to make your final choice. Yes you would forfeit the deposit (usually about $350) to the school you didn’t choose. I don’t believe there is anything ethically wrong with this and it is commonly done. Someone would be very happy to come off the waitlist at ND. ;)</p>

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<p>emswim: we’re really not that bad, honest! And I would believe the jokes - and trust me, it’s not fun to always have to defend and/or apologize for your hometown.</p>