Pre-med path: here or JHU?

<p>I want to do a biochemistry major. I am from MD, but JHU doesn't discount in-state tuition. Which school is my best bet for getting into med school (hopefully a good one)? Don't take into consideration the student life, just the education. </p>

<p>Also, which university has more research opportunities? Which one has the more prestigious opportunities?</p>

<p>Can somebody explain to me this whole waitlisting thing with WashU? If I don't apply to HYPSM, then will my chances go up?</p>

<p>Honestly they're both amazing in premed from what i hear. I've applied to both plus northwestern and im a premed (actually my major is different at all 3 schools though :) ) in terms of getting into med school you'll be prepared and pretty much "respected" very highly from both, but I'd lean overall in the medical world on JHU. Research i think definitely JHU but not sure how nice they are to undergrads, I really think it's more of a grad/med school focused place. I've heard good research things at both schools. </p>

<p>Both have really good Medical schools as well. JHU is the best of the best...and I believe they actually have one of the top medical school acceptance rates...especially into their own (somewhere in the 90 percentile range, but don't quote me). WashU is 3rd or fourth i can't remember off hand which bugs me because I can usually quote things like that but I typed third but then wasn't positive so I said that. Both are amazing.</p>

<p>Sorry for making this super long...had a lot to put together...Just go with JHU in my opinion. You seem to be looking at best chances of getting into top schools with prestigous endeavors and such and that's a much more focused school on premed and much more "world class" and well-known i'd say. that's my opinion on it. someone else can tell you about the whole waitlist thing....that's a headache in itself.</p>

<p>Edit: oh but i'm not sure on the biochem programs...you'd have to look into that.</p>

<p>It is routinely noted that premed at both schools could be considered the toughest academic path available. However, many students claim that JHU's program is intensely competitive while WUSTLs program is less so.</p>

<p>My friend who attended WUSTL for undergrad and who is currently and Baylor College of Medicine said that students in his pre-med courses worked together to prepare for classes and labs and study the material in a communal effort, while his classmates who attended JHU said that they were forced to compete yet again (like HS) amongst one another for the best on campus research spots and professor affectations.</p>

<p>In terms of research, don't worry about getting a position. Granted there will be a limited number of super amazing lab opportunities (that's why they are super amazing), but even if you are unable to get those campus options, you can always apply to NSF-REU (National Science Foundation-Research Experience for Undergraduates) which allows undergrads to travel to various schools for the summer and conduct research with a professor mentor. The better the school you're coming from, the greater the liklihood you research at a top program.</p>

<p>I've just been accepted at WUSTL (waiting on Cornell, Chicago and NWestern) as a transfer student for sophomore standing. I currently attend a Tier 4 school with a TREMENDOUS research program in the sciences. After applying to SURFs (Summer Undergraduate Research Fellowships) and REU programs, I will be deciding between the U.Wisconsin's REU, Caltech's SURF and Yale's SURF program for joint studies in economics and plant genetics. </p>

<p>You will get a reesearch spot.</p>

<p>I am currently a premed student at Wash U (sophomore) and can say with confidence- COME TO WASHU</p>

<p>I don't say this because the academics are necessarily better or that Wash U is more prestigious, but your quality of life over the next four years will be so much better. Wash U pre-med is NOT EASY. I am a sophomore, who after receiving 5s on APs in high school, has had to work his ass off for a B+. But the amazing (and unique) thing about Wash U, is that although everyone is very competative in the sense that they want to do the best that they possibly can, they are willing to help out others on the way. I truly believe that Wash U is one of the few places in the country (with such academic prestige), to facilitate community, rather then cutthroat competition, in the pre-med program. I studied in groups for chem and bio exams freshman year, and continue to do so this year. In orgo lab last week, I ran out of time doing my lab and was rushing to finish in time. The person in the hood next to me finished early, and WASHED MY GLASSWARE, so I would submit everything in time and not lose points on my lab report. At what other school would you find students like this in a pre-med Organic Chemistry Lab (which is graded on a curve)?</p>

<p>I second College5812 on that. I have pre-med friends at JHU and apparently it's extremely (and unnecessarily) cutthroat and competitive. I've heard stories of people who sabotage each others' assignments or try to ruin curves for classes (i'm not saying this is definitely true, but it's just what i've heard). At WashU the atmosphere is far more collaborative and community-like. The amount of resources and academic support they provide (for pre-meds and non-pre-meds alike) is really excellent.</p>

<p>Thank you all for your opinions, but I think you all misread my post.</p>

<p>"Don't take into consideration the student life, just the education."</p>

<p>Form my observances, WUSTL seems to have a better student atmosphere. We've already established that. I do not care so much about student life in JHU since I will travel from current home to school.</p>

<p>Here are my pros and cons for each:</p>

<p>WUSTL:</p>

<p>Pros: </p>

<p>-Accepts more of my AP credit (I can do it in 3 years)
-Nice atmosphere
-Great med school</p>

<p>Cons:</p>

<p>-Expensive
-Far
-Infamous waitlist (hard to get into)
-Have to pay room and board</p>

<p>JHU:</p>

<p>Pros:</p>

<p>-More well-known
-Outstanding med school
-Nearby
-Easier to get into (I'm fairly confident I'll get in especially with my internship at NIH)
-No need to pay for R & B (live at home)</p>

<p>Cons:
-Accepts at most a semester's worth of AP credit
-Cutthroat (not too much of an effect since I won't be in the dorms)</p>

<p>Which has the better undergrad biochemistry major?</p>

<p>I'm a pre-med sophomore at JHU, and I'm currently in the midst of taking all the pre-med classes. (I have no idea what I'm doing on this forum still, but hey, I guess I give my opinion on some things here and there.) I took Biochemistry last year and loved it. Granted, it was challenging, but it was sooo interesting.</p>

<p>Anyway, the rumors about JHU being competitive are totally unfounded. As with any other top institution, it's a tough school, and you have to work in order to earn an A. There is still plenty of time to hang out and everyone helps each other out. There is no "sabotaging" or "ripping pages out of books". In my two years here, I have not come across anyone unwilling to answer questions about material on an exam. My friends and I all study together, and there are plenty of help sessions available just to make sure everyone is on top of things. As long as you work and want to learn, you'll succeed. </p>

<p>I am not qualified to elaborate on WashU, but this is just my take of things at JHU. JHU is a GREAT place to be pre-med, because there are so many medicine- and research-related opportunities for undergraduates. The professors expect to have undergraduates in their labs, and there are more than enough labs for the number of undergraduates who want to perform research.</p>

<p>You may want to reconsider your info on APs:
<a href="http://artsci.wustl.edu/%7Ecollege/First_Year/Placement/Advanced/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://artsci.wustl.edu/~college/First_Year/Placement/Advanced/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>As you can see, you are limited to one semester of credit at WashU too, effectively putting both JHU and WashU on the same plane.....I had AP and IB scores and I only got 12 credits coming in. Really only calculus helped me any in terms of "getting ahead". And, from what I've heard from AP Chem kids (I was physics), AP Chem is way different (easier) then genchem. I'm sure you'll find this at both JHU and WashU. Also, for of 5 on AP Stat, you get credit for some 100 level course, but for the major you need to take a 300 level stat class. </p>

<p>But I think based on your pros/cons list you should go to JHU maybe? (bc effectively now you only have 2 pros....)</p>

<p>Ditto, Schwack. Absolutely correct.</p>

<p>here's an interesting statistic:</p>

<p>12.5% of WashU premeds get into WashU's med school
1.6% of JHU premeds get into JHU's med school</p>

<p>the premed opportunities for washu also are just phenomenal:
<a href="http://admissions.wustl.edu/admissions/ua.nsf/3rd%20Level%20Pages_Academics_Academic%20Sheets_PreMed.htm?OpenPage&charset=iso-8859-1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://admissions.wustl.edu/admissions/ua.nsf/3rd%20Level%20Pages_Academics_Academic%20Sheets_PreMed.htm?OpenPage&charset=iso-8859-1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>@eleph:
That's for a BA in arts not sciences.</p>

<p>afruff23
you're right</p>

<p>For the school of engineering, there is not a limit on APs
<a href="http://registrar.seas.wustl.edu/advicetonewfreshmen/AP_Policy.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://registrar.seas.wustl.edu/advicetonewfreshmen/AP_Policy.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>But if you are in ArtSci there is....</p>

<p>However, in terms of "being ahead" and able to graduate earlier:
a. A 5 on AP bio gives you credit for some 100 level course not required for the bio major. You still have to take 2960, 2970, and 3050 at wustl
b. A 5 on AP chem can get you into orgo, but traditionally this is not the wisest route gpa-wise, since genchem at wustl is much more rigorous than what is taught in AP classes.
c. math-yes..here you can advance in the calculus sequence, but you still have to take a stat class, bc the AP stat is non-calc based, and the bio major requires you to have a calc-based stats class</p>

<p>So maybe you'd come in with more credits, but they're most likely not going to help you any towards a major, which I guess was my main point. I used a bio major because that's the one I'm most familiar with, but it's comparable for other majors. </p>

<p>aha...and then, copied from their FAQ page <a href="http://admissions.wustl.edu/admissions/ua.nsf/3rd%20Level%20Pages_FAQ_FAQ_Credit.htm?OpenPage&charset=iso-8859-1#AP%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://admissions.wustl.edu/admissions/ua.nsf/3rd%20Level%20Pages_FAQ_FAQ_Credit.htm?OpenPage&charset=iso-8859-1#AP&lt;/a&gt;)
"# Please Note: The maximum number of credit units accepted toward a Bachelor’s degree in Arts & Sciences or Architecture earned through Advanced Placement awards is 15.</p>

<h1>The College of Art students (Bachelor of Fine Arts) are awarded all credit that they earn.</h1>

<h1>The maximum number of credit units accepted toward a Bachelor of Science in Business Administration degree earned through Advanced Placement awards is 30."</h1>

<p>JHU is probably the best in the country, but WashU's not far behind, so in terms of rankings, they're pretty much interchangeable. So the deciding factor's probably going to be other academic factors or, more likely, campus life.</p>

<p>DarkKnight - the posts are from 2007. I think the OP ended up elsewhere.</p>