What are some competitive (up to 20% acceptance rate) schools with top-notch premed programs? The closer to NYC, the better (I already know of Columbia, but that’s a reach for everyone :P)
As stated, it appears you are seeking colleges with acceptance rates of 20% or less. Is this correct? If so, then you are searching within a rarefied group. In New York City, for example, only three broad-based schools (Columbia, Barnard, NYU) register acceptance rates at this level. In the rest of New York State, you’ll find only two others (Cornell, Hamilton). Surrounding states offer similarly selective schools that would be easy for you to identify.
What are these aforementioned schools? Also, I think the acceptance rate constraint can be relaxed, as long as the school has a rigorous and well-respected science department
Most will have decent depts, but you want to watch out for the uber competitive sorts with miserable weeding, no?
Post #587 in the thread linked below lists colleges with sub-25% acceptance rates.
As one suggestion, you may want to consider appropriate NESCACs (e.g. Bates), which generally offer solid support to their pre-med students.
Any school with an acceptance rate lower than 20% is by definition a reach for everyone.
However, why are you specifically looking for universities with low acceptance rates? Do you think that attending one of them will improve your chance of getting into medical school?
Well, the low acceptance rate schools have good programs, which is why they have low acceptance rates. Also, what is meant by “miserable weeding”? Also, say, how good would a place like NYU or Brooklyn college be for Premed?
Weeding is when they purposely make testing difficult, to reduce the number of premeds. If you see a college’s stats for what % of med school applicants were accepted, it’s generally only those who made it through to committee endorsement.
Many feel you’re much better off applying to a college where you can get a successfully high gpa.
“the low acceptance rate schools have good programs, which is why they have low acceptance rates.”
I think that they have low acceptance rates because they are famous, and have successfully convinced a large number of students to apply. Harvard and Stanford already know how many students they are going to accept next year and the year after. In order to get their acceptance rate down the only thing that really matters is that they get the number of applicants up. That is why both my daughters got ads from both of these schools right after taking the PSAT.
There are however hundreds of universities in the US that have very strong premed programs. Premed is a very popular goal for many students. Also, every state in the US has people who occasionally need to see a doctor. As such, every state in the US wants to allow their strongest students a good chance to attend medical school, which means that they have a strong premed program at their public universities. In New York state, some (or possibly all) of the SUNY’s will have great premed programs. U.Mass Amherst has a great premed program. UVM has a great premed program. So do Columbia and NYU. This is pretty common.
“Also, what is meant by “miserable weeding”?”
Both daughters have majors which overlap a lot with premed classes, and therefore I have heard a lot about it.
In any “top 200” university the premed classes are going to be full of strong students, and will include a large number of the very strongest students in the school. Most of these students are exceptionally smart and exceptionally hard working. It is very normal to hear of tests and exams where the class average is in the 40’s. There will be a few students who are getting 80’s or 90’s on these exams. This is how professors separate the strong students from the exceptional students. There really is no limit on how hard a professor can make an exam if he or she really wants to do so.
I was a math major but did see something similar in math classes. I was at a top university where about half of the students had gotten 800 on the math SAT (probably more if you only count students who were math majors) but still had exams where the class average was in the 40’s.
Of the students who start off as premed, the majority give up before they reach their senior year of university and never apply to any medical school. Of those students who do apply to medical schools, the majority do not get accepted anywhere.
One daughter mentioned that the first midterm exam freshman year in biology class had a class average around 40. My interpretation of this was that the professors were doing the students a favor by trying to give half of the premed students a strong hint that they need to consider a different future. The first midterm exam freshman year was a good time to start hinting.
In order to have a good chance of getting accepted to medical school, you need to do multiple things. One thing that you need to do is to be near the top of your class in very, very hard classes. If you attend any “top 200” university and take premed classes, you will see tougher classes and tougher exams than you have ever seen in your life. If you excel at these classes, then you have a good chance of being headed to medical school. There will be some students who do excel in these classes. Frankly, the students who did excel in these classes are likely to be the ones that I want diagnosing my next serious illness.
If you attend a university with an acceptance rate below 20%, then every other student in your class will be one of the strongest students in the country. Most of them will not make it to medical school. If you attend your local in-state public university, then the top 50% of the students in your premed classes will be just as strong.
It is not at all clear whether a strong student has a better chance to get to medical school if they attend Harvard or if they attend U.Mass Amherst. It is clear that a higher percentage of Harvard premed students get to medical school. However, both schools have very good premed programs. At Harvard, every single student in the class was strong enough to get into Harvard (admittedly there are a few legacy and athletic admits), and still a lot of them do not get to medical school. You have to wonder whether the strong student who is in the bottom half of their class at Harvard and does not get into any medical school might have been better off at U.Mass. My personal suspicion is that it really does not matter. Both have great programs. Planning to work hard and avoiding debt are probably more important.
So what are some examples of schools with top tier premed classes, disregarding acceptance rate?
You can go to med school from most any four year college. GPA and MCAT scores are the first cut on the med school app…so go where you can get a high GPA (3.7 min). To best position yourself for a high GPA conventional wisdom is to be in the top 25% of the incoming class with regard to HS GPA and test scores…that’s why going to a reach school can be especially problematic for a med school student.
Major in something you like, because that should allow you to have a higher GPA too.
Other things to think about when selecting a college for pre-med:
-ease of getting volunteer/work in patient facing activities. Is it close to a medical center/hospital/physician offices?
-Can students work as EMTs on school EMT team?
-Does school offer a MCAT review course?
-Does school have a pre-med advising group? What are their offerings beyond advising…events? speakers? help finding shadowing/jobs/volunteer gigs?
-What is school policy regarding committee letters? This letter (really a packet) is required for med school applications. Some undergrad schools will write these letters for all students applying for med school regardless of their GPA/MCAT score, while other schools will use the committee letter as a further way to weed out applicants. No committee letter=med school application dead in the water.
We know nothing about the kind of school you want to attend beyond geography, or if you even have the stats for a T20. But here’s a start: U Rochester, Bucknell, U Richmond, Lafayette, any of the NESCAC schools could work. Agree with U Mass Amherst, also UVM. Brooklyn College may not be the best CUNY for pre-med…I will let others who know more weigh in on that. For Sunys look at Binghamton, Geneseo, maybe StonyBrook (although I hear there are many pre-meds there…could be good, could be not so good).
Lastly, pay attention to costs as med school is expensive. Limit your undergrad debt, if you have to take out some for undergrad do not take out more than the $27K max one can take over the 4 years. Run each school’s net price calculator (NPC) to get an estimate of annual costs.
If you’d like, you can search “The 25 Best Colleges for Pre-Meds” for schools that might be of interest to you.
Alright thanks!
One college I think would be nice is Amherst College (not UMass Amherst). Opinions?
Yes, Amherst could be a great choice for pre-med, as would any of the NESCAC colleges (the sports conference that Amherst plays in).
Liberal arts colleges tend to be good pre-med destinations, due to smaller classes and (usually) a collaborative learning environment.
But as I said above do your research…what is each school’s pre-med advising offering? How easy is it to get patient facing experience during the school year? Research experience (although less important than patient facing)? Etc.
Amherst puts a LOT of premed info online: https://www.amherst.edu/campuslife/careers/gradstudy/health/guide
Pre-health majors begin specialized advising around orientation week the first year and continue throughout their time at Amherst.
In terms of admissions, I recommend you put Amherst in the same selectivity category as Columbia.
I agree with the comments that Amherst College would be a great choice, and that it is a school where admissions is very competitive. It would be a reach for almost everyone.
My younger daughter is currently at a small school (about as close as Canada has to a liberal arts college), and is taking a lot of classes that might be considered premed classes. So far she loves it. The smaller class sizes help a lot. For example, this makes it easier for her to get to know her professors, which is in turn helpful for getting research opportunities. I would expect very similar advantages at Amherst College.
I did run the NPC for Amherst College, and for us it was not encouraging. However, it might be very different for you.
- Well, I have been thinking a lot about EDing to Cornell. Is this a bad idea? I have heard that Cornell is VERY tough for premeds and I do not want to get weeded out. Not EDing also gives me the opportunity to apply to BA/BS MD programs.
- Also, how would you guys compare Williams to Amherst in terms of quality of education/rigor and premed advising?
- Are there any other good premed schools with good rigor that you guys would recommend?
Thoughts? Comments?
Thanks!
By survey results, Williams placed 8th nationally for best classroom experience:
https://www.princetonreview.com/college-rankings?rankings=best-classroom-experience
Academically Williams and Amherst are identical twins (though I would give Williams the edge in math/science.) The major point of differentiation is location – Amherst lively small town, Williamstown insular mountain village. Amherst is part of a 5 college consortium. Williams has Winter Study (January term) and tutorials (2 students/1 professor).
Both have very good to excellent med school placement and advising. Williams says
Here are links to Williams’ health professions counseling programs. I don’t know how it compares to Amherst’s, but I can attest that Williams provides robust guidance.