I think you should be aware of the financial situation of the other as well as their spending habits. Not convinced though that pre-nups are necessary for most people. We have a weird situation where dh has usually earned more than me, but I brought in some significant money through inheritance. (Which by the way I didn’t even know was in the cards at all - it made funding the kids’ college educations easy though.) The son who has a girl friends is very frugal and girl friend seems to be cut from the same cloth. I suspect that there’s more money in her background than it seems, but it’s not my business. If they ever get closer to marriage, I may share some thoughts, but haven’t really yet.
I’m assuming my daughter will someday marry someone at her same stage of life without dependents from previous relationships. In that instance, I don’t see any need for a pre-nup and would think less of any prospective partner who suggested it. Obviously, it would ultimately be her own decision. If one person already has kids, then a pre-nup may make more sense.
One thing that drives me crazy abt pre-nups is that they are usually designed to protect the MORE economically powerful person in a relationship. Yet people entering into relationships with economically powerful people often give up a substantial chunk of their own earning power by, for example, becoming a stay-at-home spouse. I can’t tell you how many brilliant young well-educated lawyers (all women) who have given up their nascent careers upon marrying rich guys to stay at home with the kids. I don’t have a problem at all with that decision, which very often is in the best interest of the family. I applaud that decision. But if anyone needs a pre-nup, in my view, it is the person giving up future earning prospects because they will have very limited earning power in 20 years compared to what they would have had if they had remained in the work force. But somehow you don’t hear about the soon-to-be-married, soon-to-be-stay-at-home-spouses demanding pre-nups with provisions for generous alimony beyond that allowed under present law in the event of divorce. The pre-nups are always drafted to ensure that the less economically powerful person will get LESS than they would otherwise be entitled to under the law.
If you google around a bit it is obvious that some states have specific rules for financial matters within a marriage and at divorce.
Some states laws state that a student loan for a degree is the degree holders debt. Some also see the debt as being owed by one spouse unless the other spouse begins to help pay it off.
The same is true for inheritance. One parties inheritance is theirs and theirs alone unless they put it into a shared account and/ or use it to buy community property like a house. Then the entire amount is deemed as shared property.
I would never tell my kid what to do or suggest they have a prenup. HOWEVER I will continue to educate them along the way in general about money, marriage and divorce using other people as examples. Knowledge is power .
The different laws from state to state make a huge difference for couples and their finances throughout their lives. I never paid it much attention.
I also assume the kids will move from state to state so counting on any of these laws for protection can backfire.
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And states change their laws from time to time, sometimes surprising a lot of people who are unaware.
A good marriage requires significant trust and partnership between the parties. I would not have been interested in discussing not signing a prenup.
S already has significant assets that he acquired thru his own hard work. Not sure what he plans to do, but he already has about 5x (or more) the savings I did 5 years into his career. I think the more assets you have at the time you start thinking of marriage, the more you seriously think about how best to proceed.
@HImom .
My son is similiar. He has a good job, no debt and savings. He is also generous to a fault. I pray he has the good luck of falling in love with a good,honest person with integrity. He is naive when it comes to understanding people’s intentions.
“None of my friends have done pre-nups and I’d honestly be shocked if any of them even thought of it.”
From your description, your friends are mostly just getting by. It’s not worth it in that circumstance. Other people are in different circumstances. They may be inheriting a share of a family business, or have a trust fund meant for them, or their eventual children.
If I set up a trust for my eventual grandchildren’s benefit, I’d want to make sure it remained earmarked for them and wasn’t “open” to the parent who isn’t my kid.
I stand by my assertion that if you are marrying someone and both these things are true, 1) you consider divorce to be a possibility and 2) you don’t entirely trust that the person you marry will behave right in the event of it, then I don’t know why you’d marry that person.
If we’d ever divorced, I don’t have one iota of doubt that H would behave impeccably; in fact, I know he’d throw most assets and income my way, if I’d let him. Which I wouldn’t.
Character counts.
(btw–I have some evidence, as his brother is divorcing, and both parties are treating each other with the utmost fairness.)
are you asserting that signing a prenup (or more accurately proposing one) is evidence of bad character?
I agree with Garland. If you go into a marriage assuming the worst, the worst is bound to happen. Why would you marry someone you can’t trust?
Generally I wouldn’t worry about it, unless there was a previous marriage/prior born children. I do appreciate @WayOutWestMom’s comments.
Sometimes situations are unique where there is a great difference in the circumstances of each of the parties.
I’m not sure how comfortable I’d be bringing it up to my sons.
Real life friends of mine signed a prenup. He came into the marriage with a family-owned business. She was entitled to half of what the business earned during the time of the marriage (as it flowed through into his salary), but why would she be entitled to walk away with half of the business itself?
There are gold diggers out there too, you know.
My dad is in a relationship with a lady friend who is worth a lot more than he is. They’re not getting married, but if they were I would absolutely expect them to draw up papers ensuring that what is hers stays hers and wouldn’t get commingled with his - as her kids are the beneficiaries and my sister and I would be (rightfully) owed nothing from her estate. Granted, this is an older couple, but the principle is still there. I guess I don’t see anything inherently wrong with a prenup depending on the assets on hand.
Wasn’t this a Seinfeld episode?
‘He came into the marriage with a family-owned business.’
This is one of the few situations where a pre-nup makes sense to me. It’s not about protecting the assets, rather its about protecting others with an ownership interest in something. Why should your business partners get sucked into the fallout of your problems.
We didn’t have a pre-nup when we got married because we had close to zero anyway. Everything we’ve built has been during the marriage.
But with later marriages there is a higher chance that there could be considerable assets being brought into the marriage on a very one-sided basis. I think pre-nups are a good idea in those cases.
Garland–I don’t think anybody intentionally marries someone they don’t trust and want to stay married to for the long haul but it happens. And divorce does crazy things to even normally level-headed people.
PG–I’m asserting that anyone whose actions would necessitate the pre-nup lacks character. That doesn’t mean that asking for one necessarily shows that, only that it turning out to have been necessary shows a lack of trustworthiness. You shouldn’t need a legal document to behave honorably.
I gathered from something older s and his wife said that they must have thought about it or discussed it briefly at some point, but they did not have a prenup. His career and earning potential is on a higher trajectory and he had nice savings and some other things he brought to the marriage. Don’t know what her savings situation was and its none of my business. Neither had school loans. The families are probably similar in background so inheritance may not be disparate.
While I will never say a word, if younger s and his gf get engaged, there are financial disparities at this time, due to issues in her family, sadly. And she has student loans. And his income potential is higher. So he would be coming into the marriage with more $, no school debt, and a likely higher potential inheritance. But, I agree with those who said its weird to go into a marriage while also simultaneously planning for a divorce. ANd I know my DS well enough to know that even bringing it up (a prenup) would not go over well.
Instead of a prenup, we as parents put family property and accounts in trusts for our Ds and set them up so only blood line could inherit and could not be counted as marital property. It has been a wise decision as, unfortunately, we have already seen a divorce with our oldest.
Just curious - could adopted children inherit or only true bloodline grandchildren? I am not certain of the wording on our trust but would want to make sure adopted children would inherit as S hopes to adopt one day.
Would think adoptive children are “children” unless there is some verbiage in a trust that specifically excludes them or says “only blood children”. Some do say “children born to this marriage” but that lingo might need to be updated.
You can set it up to allow for that