<p>@frugaldoctor - I do think everyone understands there are no easy answers. But, you do need to ask the most obvious question - if the threat of a change in or the withdrawal of foreign aid is not an effective strategy and is useless, why in the world is the president doing exactly that when dealing with Uganda and Kenya? </p>
<p>Many people say he is not properly respected as president. OK then, let’s play follow the leader and show some respect and use the same strategy he is using. Unless, of course, the president likes using ineffective strategies.</p>
<p>@frugaldoctor - I just realized the reason why you would not give into a ransom - because it would go into the pockets of a tyrant or fanatic. Fair and accurate. </p>
<p>However, are you aware that it was an official sudanese government court, which handed down this decision? So, exactly who do you think gets US foreign aid dollars? Answer: the sudanese government. Therefore, our foreign aid dollars are propping up government-sponsored tyrants and fanatics. </p>
<p>To be consistent, we should think twice about giving foreign aid, if we would not even think about giving a ransom.</p>
<p>No, of course I don’t think renouncing one’s faith is the same as murder. I’m addressing the principle, not the specifics. We think it’s barbaric that Sudan may execute a woman for converting, while other countries think we are barbaric for executing the mentally ■■■■■■■■. </p>
<p>^^ Thanks for the explanation. A fair and legitimate critique re Texas courts in that decision.</p>
<p>There is though a difference I believe worth pointing out. There is a huge difference between the decision taken by one state under a system of federalism and that of an action sanctioned by the ruling government. Not sure they are really directly comparable, but I understand the principle of your analogy, and point is taken.</p>
<p>You can’t “fake” recanting your faith. Publicly stating that she is renouncing Christ would show that she does not have faith enough to stand up for her conviction. People who take the Bible literally have many verses that would forbid that. If you deny Christ, he will deny you. If you are ashamed of Christ, he will deny you. If you die for your faith, you will live again for eternity. When you are persecuted for your faith you are blessed, and the Holy Spirit will help you to stand firm. In her opinion, obviously, by her response in court last Thursday, it is better to die to this life and live for eternity than to save her life and not live for eternity. Put it this way: how do you refuse to die for the one you believe died for you?</p>
<p>As we talked about in church last Sunday, even while we pray that she does not die, we respect her for being willing to die. She is showing the world that (in her view, anyway), Jesus is worth dying for. The early church actually grew rapidly under persecution. At one point people were so eager to prove their faith through martyrdom the the church leaders had to preach against it.</p>
<p>@awcntdb: I would be in support of giving a ransom if we could get Sudan to change their laws so apostasy would never be considered a crime. I am looking for permanent changes and changes that apply to all and not just one woman. By the way, I found a good summary of US foreign aid to Sudan. The money is being given for the humanitarian changes we want to achieve in Sudan. So, are you ok with withdrawing US foreign aid to Sudan knowing that the purposes of that aid are for “definitive end to conflict, gross human rights abuses, and genocide in Darfur”?</p>
<p>I know you aren’t ok with impeding that goal, but this is the problem with the approach of cutting funding. It may end up having worse consequences. I would like to believe that an embargo by Sudan’s main trading partners would have a much greater effect in changing the archaic laws.</p>
<p>Now Kenya, is a whole different animal. 61% of their economy is dominated by the service sector which is predominantly tourism. Any major negative perception of the country could damage its greatest source of foreign currency. Case in point was the travel advisory by the Department of States after the embassy bombing. It impacted the Kenyan economy and they responded with improvement in security. Also, Kenya is a predominantly Christian (75%). The concerns I raised about withholding foreign aid were specifically aimed at Islamist nations that enforce severe penalties for religious crimes. In these nations, can you show me one example where withholding foreign aid has led to a permanent improvement in human rights?</p>
<p>Uganda, 85% christian and also a large tourism economy. Again, bad press isn’t good. </p>
<p>“In this case, that is easy to answer - 1) if she is married to an American citizen, and 2) if her imprisoned child is an American citizen, then it is a direct American foreign policy issue and problem.”</p>
<p>Children born to American citizens in a foreign country do not gain automatic US citizenship. They have to apply for naturalization. Just ask the birthers about that!</p>
<p>^^ I do not know the details; that is why I wrote “if.” We do not know where he was born, as it is not stated. For example, John McCain was born in Panama, but is an american citizen. </p>
<p>Uganda and Kenya, as English-speaking, Christian-influenced ex-British colonies, admire to a significant degree the Anglo-American west and seek to emulate a lot of the ways of thinking. For them, to be scolded by the US or UK may give them pause to think they are on the wrong track. Sudan politically largely has contempt for the West, but if you are handing out money they are willing to take it. </p>
<p>They could probably count on a helping hand from a legal service and the courts, but more likely is a condemnation of the injustice by our president.</p>
<p>“You can’t “fake” recanting your faith. Publicly stating that she is renouncing Christ would show that she does not have faith enough to stand up for her conviction. People who take the Bible literally have many verses that would forbid that. If you deny Christ, he will deny you. If you are ashamed of Christ, he will deny you. If you die for your faith, you will live again for eternity. When you are persecuted for your faith you are blessed, and the Holy Spirit will help you to stand firm. In her opinion, obviously, by her response in court last Thursday, it is better to die to this life and live for eternity than to save her life and not live for eternity. Put it this way: how do you refuse to die for the one you believe died for you?”</p>
<p>Okay, so this is part of why I have the hardest time buying into any religion. </p>
<p>So if someone pretends to change their religion to save their life, even for the sake of their disabled husband and unborn child, they will go to Hell eternally? Obviously they are not ashamed of Christ, they are just giving into murderers until they escape, to survive for their family. Yet a child murderer can find religion in jail and be saved and go to Heaven, hallelujah! That’s why I find this all ridiculous.</p>
<p>I can’t possibly believe in such a vindictive and cruel God, who would be happy for someone to be executed as opposed to pretend to change their religion just briefly. And what about those who change their religion by choice, are they going to eternal Hell? The entire, “Everyone is eternally damned unless they are of my faith,” as claimed by the mortals (ministers) who give themselves the authority to interpret everything heavenly…is why I don’t think I can ever believe in any organized religion, while I think some of the best people I know are highly religious.</p>
<p>John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone in a period when it was governed as an unorganized US territory. As such, he was legally born on US soil. </p>
<p>A child born to a US citizen abroad is a US citizen. You do have to go to the US Embassy and declare the birth but you have citizenship. For the poster above who thinks this has something to do with “birthers”, it does not. The concern there is about the presidency. A US citizen born abroad cannot be elected president. </p>
<p>busdriver, you’re missing the big picture in that religion. </p>
<p>When a person publicly turns their back on Christ for a matter in which they should have faith, they are showing God that they do not have faith in him and trust Him in their time of need. It is not the person’s job to be worrying. The focus should not be to enjoy as much life as they can on Earth, but rather a larger focus is desired: eternal life. He may not be “happy” bringing one of His children back home, but perhaps He knows this will be the end of their suffering and the chance for them to have an enjoyable time in Heaven where they will once be reunited with their family. The reason a child murderer may go to Heaven is that they have been saved. You can’t fake being saved. In the end, God will know. He is forgiving. In both cases it deals with the acknowledgement of God and your acceptance of Him. In this case, with this woman, I definitely see why she would not renounce her faith. It is what she believes. Sometimes, you have to trust God and stick to your convictions, which is what this woman is doing. </p>
<p>@actingmt It is far from simple whether the child in question would automatically be a US citizen. Even assuming that the father was a US citizen at the time of birth, and that the parents were legally married at the time of birth, then:</p>
<p>If God knows all, then he knows that she is pretending, purely to save her life. Perhaps he would understand that her severely disabled husband and unborn child needs her more than he needs her to die, perhaps?</p>
<p>If she trusts God and sticks to her convictions…and then she is executed and her family suffers for their lifetime, does that bring glory to God somehow? </p>