Should I be looking into prestige of premed program. How would you compare kids coming out of UAB , UGA, emory , Vanderbilt , WashU
2 -UAB and UGA would be free vs paying for the rest
Does it matter if one wants to esp get into a good specialty? I see most UAB kids getting into mostly UAB SOM( based on LinkedIn searches) and UGA kids going into MCG ( but some other schools too)
Thoughts ?
Thanks
In short, no. The âprestigeâ of your premed program has little to no direct impact on med school admission. However, there can be indirect impacts due to thigs like different degrees of grade inflation/deflation or different quality of advising.
You mentioned that UAB and UGA kids often stay in state. There is a reason for that. Kids who attend public colleges tend to be residents of the state. Pubic med schools often give preferences to residents of the state. Students are also more likely to apply to nearby med schools and often also prefer to stay in state, if they have multiple options for med school.
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Would med schools think a 4 GPA from UAB or UGA is lesser than a 4 GPA at Vanderbilt or Emory if say the rest of the app including MCAT is very strong
Thanks again
Including lower tuition for the in-state public. This can be the difference of $100k to $200k less debt for choosing an in-state public medical school over an out-of-state or private medical school.
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yes, but they are both getting in
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Thatâs good to know.
I have consistently heard that âprestigeâ just does not matter for medical school admissions. One doctor we know said that the other students in his MD program had gotten their bachelorâs degree âall over the placeâ.
The closest we have come to this in our family is veterinary medicine. A bit less than 3 1/2 years ago I got to listen to the incoming reception for students starting a very good DVM program. They said which undergraduate university each student had come from. It was rare to hear the same undergraduate university twice, and this was a âtop 5â DVM program.
The total cost of 8 years of university does motivate some students to stay in-state, whether just for their bachelorâs degree or for all 8 years of university including the MD or DO.
UAB and UGA are very good for premed students, particularly if they are free.
Wherever you go, expect that some of your premed classes will be tough. Do not be surprised to see premed classes full of very strong students and yet still see some tough exams with a class average in the 40âs or 50âs. Make a strong effort to stay ahead from day 1.
and best wishes.
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Iâll tell you this - look at Vandyâs residents. Schools like UTK, Ole Miss, Ms State, OK State, Quinnipiac and schools I never heard of like College of St Benedict. Older residents came from KU and K State. They have some elite schools but more often not.
Pre med reqs are hard everywhere.
I donât think a 4.0 at Vandy carries more wait than other schools.
Just because a school is higher ranked doesnât make it more rigorous. And many high ranked schools are known for grade infjation
You need to pay undergrad and med school. Make sure you have a financial plan - that minimizes loans. So free is good if it gets you through without financial stress.
And you might look into shadow opprtunities at UAB. With a leading hospital, are there any ??
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I agree with this.
Students are accepted to medical school from many different undergraduate institutions.
@WayOutWestMom can verify.
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As a parent, you shouldnât be spearheading the looking into programs at all: your kid should.
How your kid should look at premed, including considering cost of med school and the ratio of premeds to successful admissions are questions others can help answer.
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The relative prestige of an undergrad carries little weight when adcomms are making admission decisions. Other factors are much, much more important than the name of the school on the diploma.
See p 15 of this document to see what a survey of med school admission offices say if you donât want to believe random internet strangers.
https://www.aamc.org/media/18901/download
The choice of undergrad attended has absolutely zero influence on what medical specialty a young physician chooses. The med school one attends also has a very limited influence on what medical specialty one chooses. Medical education in the US is âflatââthat is, it has a highly standardized curriculum that is taught everywhere and all med students (MD and DO) must take and pass the same series of national standardized exams in order to graduate. The choice of specialty is a very personal decision based upon personality and values, board scores, clinical grades and LORs from specialty mentors during med school.
The reason why most UGA students go to MCG and most UAB students go UAB is because for every pre-med their very best chance for a med school admission is at their home state public med school. In-state public med schools preferentially admit in-state kids because that is part of their mission. Also pre-meds go instate because itâs always their cheapest option. With many private and OOS med schools in the $100,000+/year range, cheaper can mean a HUGE difference in the amount of debt a young doctor will need to borrow. And contrary to common beliefâyoung doctors cannot âeasily pay offâ huge med school loans.
Also when looking at pre-med programs, consider thisâ
A wide reaching national research study published recently found that only about 17% of students who started as pre-meds freshman year actually finished the pre-reqs. Of those that did finish pre-req, another 50% or so did not have grades and test scores high enough to be viable med school candidates. Of those who did have the stats and decided to apply, only 40% get a med school acceptance. And the vast majority get only 1 acceptance.
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Iâm game to where my child wants to go. However, we both donât know which is best. Spend all that money for undergrad if it doesnât offer a real benefit ?. If it does, then I guess, we would be open to pursuing a â more prestigiousâ university. Itâs difficult. We want to reach out to others who have been on this journey before, ppl with insight into this process which is somewhat opaque to us.
Look at residents at various hospitals. The list I gave you above is Vanderbilt.
I think a hard to quantify potential benefit of âprestigeâ is the optionality it conveys if your kid decides not to pursue a medical career.
âAccording to a 2020 study, only 16.5%of students who initially declared interest in pre-med completed the required coursework for medical school before graduation.â
While I certainly hope your child fulfills their dreams those dreams may change over time. While most careers are accessible from most schools there are certainly career advantages associated with more prestigious and or well known schools. To put a bow on it, the former pre med from Yale likely has more professional doors open to them than the former pre med student from a relatively unknown or poor academic reputation school.
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I agree considering optionality given the observed likelihood of eventually deciding not to pursue med school is very important. I donât think that necessarily points away from quality publics like UGA or UAB, however, because people who do well at those sorts of colleges will likely have lots of options.
Which leads me to my main point, which is that while the âprestigeâ of your college may not be an important consideration for med school admissions, whether or not you will actually thrive at your college is always a good consideration. Obviously it also has to be comfortably affordable. But among such choices, I think it is very wise to be thoughtful about whether you will actually like your college experience, the academics, the non-academics, and so on. This is important for its own sake, but also happy people tend to do better in their classes as well.
On the other hand, financially stressed students may do less well. They may also feel like they have less options. And so on. So being able to comfortably afford your college is part of it being a good choice for you in many ways.
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EDIT meant toreply to OP
With a 4.0 vs a 4.0 and strong MCAT they both get in. Where it starts to possibly make a difference is the 3.6 vs 3.6. An elite school, 3.6 is well below average gpa for the school and for med school applicants, yet 75-80% or more get in with that GPA. A 3.6 could be average or even above average at some regular colleges and yet very few get in to med school with a 3.6. The students are not the same though: The elite schools that release data indicate applying with a 3.5-3.6 have an average MCAT of 512 which is around the average accepted score from all schools, despite being below that elite schools average MCAT of 517-518.
In other words, it is hard to compare, as the reason for âbelow averageâ students at elites getting into med school at a higher rate is due to the fact that the average mcat is higherâit is not an apples to apples comparison.
Go to the best school you can get into where your stats/background indicate you have a great shot at being in the top10-25% (3.8/3.9 at most non-elites). If you want an elite and think standardized testing is generally easy for you, go for it, and aim to just stay out of the bottom 1/3.
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Iâve been on this journey.
A Tale of Two Daughters:
One of daughters went to the state Uâranked around #200 by USNews. The other went to a private research U then ranked around #30 which is known for its pre med program.
Guess what? Both found a major they enjoyed and did well in. Both found research opportunities. Both formed close mentoring relationship with their professors. Both worked as TAs and tutors at their respective universities. Both joined clubs, found volunteering opportunities, made good friends and in general had a pretty good time in college. Both did well in their classes. Both studied hard for the MCAT and scored well. Both applied to med school. Both had multiple acceptances and both are now doctors in the first choice of specialty.
(BTW both chose to attend their state public med school which is among least expensive med school in the US. One graduated with no debt; the other with a very modest amount of loans. Both girls have said what a relief it was to be able to choose a specialty based on what they enjoy vs. needing to choose one so they could pay off their education debt.)
My suggestion:
Pick a school thatâ
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minimizes the amount of debt a student needs to take since med school is horrendously expensive and there is little FA except for loans, loans and more loans (or the Bank of Mom and Dad).
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is a good academic and social fit. Why? Because happy students do better academically. Because itâs 4 years of your life that you will ever get back so you might as well enjoy it.
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offer the best range of opportunities. To become involve in campus activities. To get to know professors (who will write LORs needed for med school, grad school, job internships). To explore careers other than medicine. (Most premeds will never go to med school because they find something else more interesting/better aligned with their interests & strengths than medicine.) To meet a diverse group of people from backgrounds different than oneâs own. (Because college is time to broaden oneâs horizons and because doctors will have many patients who come from backgrounds very different than their own.)
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I absolutely agree about the potential benefits of an elite school should the student not end up pursuing medicine. However, @Samtryme17 is talking about UGA vs. maybe Emory/WashU/ Vanderbilt. I wouldnât categorize UGA as low quality academically, especially if we are talking about the honors college.
I am going to give the disclaimer that I am not a physician, but have been with my surgeon husband since we were both undergrads at Emory. I have vicariously lived through med school admissions, residency, fellowship and joining a private practice in Atlanta. Over the years, I have attended an ungodly number of interview dinners and been enlisted to show the wives of potential new hires around town.
What I have observed over the years is that the undergraduate institution has become increasingly unimportant. The old timers in the practice (those of us now in our fifties) all attended name brand undergrad schools - several Duke,Emory, U Mich, Brown, Dartmouth. The younger folks by and large have attended public schools. There are several UGA, UAB, Clemson and then I think a maybe one or two Emory and one Georgetown. There is also a wide range of medical schools. What the practice cares about is where they completed their residencies and fellowships. The undergrad and to a certain extent the medical school are pretty much irrelevant. They have a recent hire who attended med school at the University of South Alabama but completed residency and fellowship at Harvard. Another guy did his undergrad at Auburn but completed his training at Yale.
Of course, this is all anecdotal. But maybe somewhat answers the questions the OP asked about whether the undergrad school would adversely impact the ability to get into residency programs in the more competitive specialties. And maybe to further muddy the waters, at least in the case of Emory there are certain advantages to having the med school and Emory hospital right on campus. It makes it very easy for pre meds to do research and get clinical hours. Emory med school also tends to give their own undergrads preferential treatment in admissions - but the reality is that it is still such a small number that I wouldnât recommend choosing Emory for that reason.
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I note most of the recent med school kids/parents/etc. I know seem to endorse the idea that convenience of experience opportunities is worth thinking about. Kids obviously make it work just about anywhere, but it apparently doesnât hurt to make it a little easier on yourself.
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Absolutely, I hope that my comment was clear that I meant I wouldnât choose Emory for undergrad (or Wash U or Vandy) thinking that it would increase the odds of getting in to their medical school. It worked out that way for my husband, but the reality is that there were 5 or 6 Emory undergrads in his med school class. Im certainly not saying any of the aforementioned schools arenât great choices for a pre med given the opportunities for research and clinical hours with their associated medical school and hospitals. The question the OP was asking as I understood it, was whether it is worth the price differential between UGA or UAB tuition free vs. Emory, Vanderbilt or Wash U at full price - to which I would probably say no unless they can easily afford the $800 k or so that college and med school will cost. Of course, if the student is eligible for significant need based aid or gets one of the big merit scholarships I would say Emory, Wash U or Vandy would be a no brainer.
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