Prep School Grades: Lost In Translation

Applying to College
1

<p>All right, it’s the summer before my Upper (Junior) Year, and I’m thinking about colleges. I’ve made about nine-thousand college lists – cutting down on reaches, bulking up on safeties – and I’m still confused. One of my main problems is the primary admission factor of all the colleges I’m looking at: the high school transcript. My school – Phillips Academy (Andover) doesn’t use class rank, and we don’t use the normal 4.0 scale. How will an admission committee translate a 5.0 (on a 1-6 scale) from Andover to English? How do I know if my grades are good enough? Does the name mean anything anymore – or is it more of a burden than a blessing? I know that “My school is really, really hard” isn’t much of an excuse, but it’s all I’ve got. Moreover, what do I have to do – since all colleges are requiring more and more – to make my reaches seem more within my reach? </p>

<p>Background:
5.0 on a 1-5 scale</p>

<p>Taking 8 AP classes total: AB Calc, Bio, Chem, Euro, US, English Lit, French Lit</p>

<p>ECs: field hockey; board member of debate, arts editor of student life magazine, write for 3 sections of school newspaper, member of global justice organization; French tutor; I’ve been volunteering at my local library (mostly during breaks and summer) for the past three years. </p>

<p>SAT: Right now, it’s not too great. CR:800, Essay:720, Math:650. I’m taking it again twice next year…</p>

<p>Okay. So what do I do with this if I want to be more Yale and less Charlotte Piedmont Community College? Please and thank you. Info on the grade conversion thing would be most appreciated.</p>

2

<p>I don’t go to college or Andover, but I’m in a similar predicament since I go to Exeter : ) Have you thought about contacting your college counseling office? They could probably give you a chart or something of who got into where with what GPA…</p>

<p>Oh, and PROPS to schools with completely arbitrary grading systems!</p>

<p>Oh, and editing to say that the name probably does count for “something.” With the large numbers of kids matriculating to HYP, MIT, Stanford and the like every year, it would be impossible for them to be <em>all</em> in the top 5%. Here, if you’re in the top 20% it’s considered very good. Schools are generally more understanding with grades because they’re familiar with the schools; I would imagine the same applies to Andover.</p>

3

<p>your rank in class will mean more than an arbitrary GPA – the same is true at all schools, whether they are competitive top 10 public schools or rural kansas high schools.</p>

<p>The difference is that if you are not #1 or #2 at that kansas school, you probably aren’t getting into Harvard or Yale. If you are in the top 25% at Andover or Exeter, you still have a good shot.</p>

<p>Your college counselor is the one to ask with specifics – he/she can give you guidance on what GPA’s previous successful college applications had.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that many of the kids from Andover and Exeter that get into HYPS, etc may also be legacies/recruited athletes/URMs/Developmental Candidates. Those types of students may have lower stats than an unhooked candidate – again, your counselor can help you with that.</p>

4

<p>Oh, and if you’re not going to be an upper till after this summer, you still have all of Upper year to get awesome grades! That’s the year that counts the most, after all.</p>

5

<p>There are 2 things both of you should get soon from your college counseling office: the school profile that they send out with every college application, and access to the Naviance data that shows how students from your schools have fared in college applications. For any admissions officer who doesn’t know your school, the profile will inform their understanding of just how rigorous it is. The Naviance scattergrams can help you understand your own position relative to recent successful and unsuccessful applicants.</p>

<p>My kids go to a similarly competitive prep school, without class rank and without an official GPA. But the GPA issue can be the kiss of death if you’re that B+/A- kind of student - even if you have essentially perfect SAT scores! At their school, those are really good grades, but you’re competing against kids at other types of schools who can get straight A’s without breaking a sweat (whether because they are extra brilliant or because they go to a less competitive school). It definitely made it tough for my son in elite college admissions this year.</p>

<p>Back to Pixie: If you have a 5.0, that’s about 83% of a perfect 6. That’s lower than a 3.5 on a 4.0 scale if you go strictly by “percentage of perfect”. Not so good, objectively… But your school profile will show what your grades really mean, and admissions officers certainly will be able to assess your performance in the context of a well-known high school. I think your school has phenomenal success in elite college admissions, but you should cast a wide net and try to find some schools other than Yale that you could fall in love with. As far as qualifications, your CR 800 will be very impressive, but it would be nice if you could bring up the math score without ruining your life. As a junior, you should try to cultivate relationships with 2 teachers who will be able to write you excellent recommendation letters - I think that’s awfully important when coming from a school like yours. You need someone who can distinguish you from all the other over-achieving, well-rounded students.</p>

<p>good luck!</p>

6

<p>Oops – I meant a 1-6 scale.</p>

<p>I probably should explain – a 5.0 is anywhere from a 85 - 92 and a 6 is a 93-100, so it’s not really an 83. At Andover, it’s Honor Roll. I’m aiming for a 5.5 next year, but that will probably kill me, since I want to take on Japanese as a sixth class. Oh, and don’t worry, it’s not just Yale… I don’t really expect to get in. :frowning: Right now:</p>

<p>Reaches: Yale and Brown
Hopefuls (I may be hoping too much): Cornell, Duke, NYU, Claremont McKenna, Georgetown
Safeties?: BU, UNC-Chapel Hill (I’m an NC Native), maybe American U. </p>

<p>I’m trying really hard to find colleges that are good matches for my level as an applicant, but I’m not getting much help yet. Both my parents are from Africa, so the only colleges they trust are the ones that everyone’s heard of… aka HYP. Which is kind of annoying, because I’m only interested in the Y. </p>

<p>Oh, by the way – classes next year:
AP English Lit
AP US History
French Literature
AP Biology
AP AB Calculus
Hopefully Japanese 100 – if my request is approved.</p>

<p>Thank yooouuu :slight_smile: Any ideas on the safeties? Anything I could do outside of academics to kick the apps up a notch? And how much will SATs, APs, and SATII’s help me out with the high-school transcript aspect of admissions?</p>

7

<p>Colleges have formulas to figure out a rank for kids from schools that don’;t rank. In A is for Admission Hernandez lists the schools they have formulas for and Andover is othe list.</p>

<p>Scattergrams/Naviance can be extremely misleading for schools like Andover which have a ton of legacies and connected kids. The scattergrams don’t sho who got that boost and many don’t show recruited athtes, which Andover has many of.</p>

<p>A 5.0 at Andover will wow any school so work hard on the SATs!</p>

8

<p>call me naive but i thought that andover/exeter kids would have no trouble in getting into any top school simply because of the name of the school and the connections. I guess I was wrong?</p>

9

<p>Oh connections. Overrated. That’s what we all thought – and that’s what our parents thought as we dutifully filled out that lovely application, but it’s practically a myth. Believe me, I long for the days when 1 in 10 Yale seniors was a former Phillips student. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, Andover doesn’t do much for your college application. At my old school – I was contending for #1, perfect grades, extracurriculars, so sure of my future. Now that I’m at Andover, I’m no longer the special, talented, outstanding student I once was… it’s all relative, of course, but I’m not top 5% anymore, and my GPA is… unintelligible. Extracurricular activities are totally cut-throat, so getting leadership positions is harder than ever. Varsity sports? Hello, PGs. This is the case for most Andover students – and it all kind of works against us in the college process… hence the College Counseling insanity and stress-filled caffeine-binges that comprise Upper Year.</p>

10

<p>Are you suuure the name doesn’t count for anything? Eh, I’m still pro-prep school. I mean, think of how many valedictorians with perfect ECs and perfect SATs that HYP and their ilk turn down <em>every</em> year? As long as you’re in the top 50% at Andover (and it sounds like you must be, right?), by and large, you’ll be fine. Why don’t you try emailing college counseling to try and assuage your fears? Despite all of the stress and college BS that happens there, I would still go to Exeter over my home public in a heartbeat. And hey, they say that once you graduate, college will be a breeze…</p>

<p>Also, try visiting some other colleges this summer! I know what it’s like to really, really, want to go to Yale because I really, really, want to go to Yale, but I’m sure there are tons of other great colleges out there that would suit you. Plus, it’s fun, and talking to people who really love it there definitely helps put a perspective on things.</p>

11

<p>[ANDOVER</a> - College counseling](<a href=“http://www.andover.edu/cco/matrics/default.asp]ANDOVER”>http://www.andover.edu/cco/matrics/default.asp)</p>

<p>Look at what percentage of people go to HYPSM, what percentage goes to Duke/Cornell/NYU/Georgetown and equivalent schools, what percentage goes to Penn State? Then estimate what portion of the class you’re in, and you should have an idea…</p>

12

<p>You should be asking the college counseling office at Andover. Meet with one of the college counselors and ask to see the admissions data from Andover from the last couple of years to see where you have a good chance of getting in. Class rank isn’t necessary (most rigorous college prep schools do not provide class rank), although selective colleges are going to be very familiar with Andover, will understand the grading system and will know roughly where you are in your class at Andover.</p>

13

<p>It sounds like you just finished sophomore year. You have a 2170 on the SAT’s. That’s a great score, especially for a sophomore. Your score will only go up. You can also try the ACT. You mention that your parents are from Africa. If you are black and a US citizen, your high SAT scores will make you very desirable to colleges, especially if you are male. Your school is well known to colleges. They will know how to interpret your GPA. Of course you need a variety of schools on your list, but as long as you keep your grades up, I think you will have some good acceptances/choices.</p>

14

<p>I’m pretty sure colleges know that Andover is significantly harder than say, your average public school. I’m actually in a bit of a worse predicament than you are, being I go to a private school that’s roughly comparable to yours, but it’s not a boarding school and so it doesn’t have the same big-name recognition that yours does.</p>

15

<p>Admissions officers are VERY well aware of your school and its grading policies. They will have NO problem ‘translating’ your grades and accomplishments. Trust us on this.</p>

16

<p>Coming from a good boarding school is always a blessing; just as a huge number of Eton kids go to Oxford or Cambridge, a huge number of you Andover kids will always go to good Ivies. In other news, Woodberry Forest > You.</p>

17

<p>Wait, Woodberrry Forest >Me? What does that even mean? It’s funny that you should mention it though, since I have a lot of friends who go there.</p>

18

<p>I have a somewhat different view on prep schools. First off, the education provided at any of the top schools is outstanding. These schools teach you how to write and how to think. Most classes are way to small to hide; you better be prepared when you walk in because the teacher is going to engage you. great preparation for college. HOWEVER, if you are trying to “work” the admissions system, a top student probably does as well if not better staying in a good public school. Win awards, do great academically, become a superstar and you should do well in the admission process. As someone said, the days of prep schools sending all their students to ivies is long gone. When a school like Choate (a school I am familiar with) has over 50 applications per class to Yale, it still only gets single digits accepted. And these are academic superstars, athletes, , etc., not your B plus student. The competition at these universities is simply too intense for the old prep feeder schools to get that many kids in. BUT, where these schools shine is for the rest of the student body. Good prep schools get their “average” and bottom students into great schools. These schools still have long standing relationships with many LACs. In sum, all these prep kids end up doing well in the admission’s process but , no, attending these top preps is in no way a sure step to the ivies or other top schools.</p>

19

<p>wow looking at that list is like 15 something people to schools like princeton/yale …crazy.</p>

<p>But yeah, nightsky has a point, it can be better sometimes, I guess, to be the top of a less competitive public school and excel. Unless you’re a super-genius…the private boarding schools are very competitive and you may not be the best.</p>

<p>EDIT: honestly I don’t know much about this but 15/16 a school may be more worthwhile for private school (If looking at ivies only) than a Risky-maybe 1 or 2 going to ivies.</p>

20

<p>You should definitely speak with your college counselor! It’s strange that you seem so confused about how your academic performance will be evaluated. At Andover, aren’t your peers talking about the college admissions process and where they stand? It’s a very competitive place and from what I know about Andover there are many students that are incredibly stressed out about getting into a top school, and they probably discuss this. You should NOT be confused about where you stand even if you are a rising junior. </p>

<p>I can help you out though…</p>

<p>In terms of getting into the Ivies or Stanford/Duke from places like Andover/Exeter with grades that put you around the 66th/75th percentile (I’m not saying that’s where you stand; you are probably closer to around the 80th percentile from what I know about Andover’s grading system; correct me if I’m wrong) it tends to be more about hooks. Hooks include incredible abilities in a certain area – i.e. impactful science research, music w/ national recognition (state is less impressive) or equivalent ability, significant entrepeneurship or inventions, URM status, major advocacy work that demontrates passion or compassion, etc. OR legacy, big donor, recruited varsity athlete, or celebrity child status…This is true with all top prep schools.</p>

<p>Some of the top 10-20% that are really involved in high level math/science end up at MIT (and rarely Caltech) - these schools don’t care about hooks as much.</p>

<p>For people without hooks and strong but nothing spectacular to standout with EC’s and grades that put them in the top 66/75th percentile, what can get you into to top schools (including the Ivies) are great essays, recs, and test scores (across the board with SAT’s being most important) and the RIGOR of your courseload (number of AP’s and AP scores).</p>

<p>Harvard, Stanford, MIT, Yale, and Princeton will be tough for you</p>

<p>Brown, Columbia, Dartmouth are possibilities</p>

<p>Looking at the info you’ve provided you are in good shape for places like U Penn, Georgetown, Duke, Cornell, etc. - you will probably get into one of those (I would encourage Early Decision).</p>

<p>U Chicago, Vanderbilt, Tufts, Middlebury, WUSTL, etc. will be easier and you will probably get into several of these level schools.</p>

<p>Places like Tulane U, USC, NYU, Boston College, etc. will be a lock (very small chance you won’t get into schools at this level).</p>