It was graduation day. The alleged victim had agreed to save seats for her parents at the ceremony. She knew that if she said it wasn’t consensual, she wasn’t getting out of the nurse’s office in time to get those seats and if her parents asked why she hadn’t done what she’d promised her sister’s graduation would be ruined. Labrie was graduating too. You think her parents wouldn’t have made a scene if their daughter told them he’d RAPED her right then? I have NO difficulty believing her explanation as to why she asked the nurse for Plan B -there’s a relatively short time span during which it’s effective–but , when asked, said the sex was consensual.
@Consolation, the victim has testified that she could see both his hands when she felt that penetration. It doesn’t sound like “fingering” OR “dry humping” was the full extent of what took place. Here’s the reporting from the NY Times:
Love how the defendant throws St. Paul’s under the bus in one of his police interviews, presumably before he was arrested:
He told the detective that he tried to educate other students not to engage in “Senior Salute” and that the school wasn’t doing enough to curtail the tradition.
“The school has to put its foot down on this culture,” Labrie is quoted in a police affidavit. “It’s not healthy.”
Regarding college - @Hanna, thanks for your thoughts on potential colleges if he is acquitted … as a parent I would be very worried if he turned up on campus at any college my daughter were attending.
@GnocchiB I wouldn’t worry about it, as long as he is not permitted to enroll under an assumed name.
A long time ago now, a group of high school boys sexually molested a girl of limited intelligence with an inanimate object. They were tried and convicted. See here for more info. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Ridge_rape
AFTER CONVICTION, while the case was on appeal, the boys were not imprisoned. One of them enrolled in a public university in the South. Although the school was aware of his identity, it allowed him to enroll under an assumed name. He apparently went on some dates while a student. A journalist found out and “outed” him. He then withdrew from the college.
“She told the hospital immediately afterward it was a consentual” - actually this was the school nurse nit the hospital, when she went teary eyed to the on campus health clinic the morning of her sister’s graduation to get Plan B. @MidwestDad3 I’m confused here. Since the defense attorney specifically stated in his opening statement that there was no sexual intercourse, is it still prudent for the defense to not to address this? He stated: “The evidence will show that they never did have sex,” Carney said. “There was a lot of dry humping, no question about that.” Won’t the jury be expecting him to after that statement?
@GnocchiB - Unfortunately, the judge ruled that past sexual history cannot be raised in the trial (not sure why?), so it seems unlikely that that other student can now testify as to Labrie being aggressive with her.
I think the girl got in way over head. She definitely seems to have been coerced into the encounter. Even if she didn’t technically say no, she was probably in a situation she was uncomfortable with and where she felt inferior because of the difference in age and social status and the guy did take advantage of her in that sense.
@jonri, this is beyond appalling. The wikipedia entry didn’t have information about the college the perp enrolled in. I truly hope that by 2015 college administrators EVERYWHERE are “enlightened” enough to prohibit convicted sex offenders from enrolling at a residential college. And I would hope that classmates/citizens would feel empowered enough to challenge a college administration should such a student be admitted and permitted to live on campus. I’m not suggesting vigilante justice, but students at a college should be informed if convicted sex offenders are in their midst.
A bit of an aside, but since this is the parents forum…for some thought provoking reading I’d recommend “This Beautiful Life” a fictional account of a situation between a teen boy and a younger girl that gets out of hand, damaging both their lives and those of their families. I wouldn’t say it’s a brilliant novel but as a parent it makes you realize how quickly things can go sideways.
@doschicos. The jury doesnt follow what either lawyer says in closing arguments. The lawyers merely summarize the evidence. Each lawyer will highlight the evidence that supports their position.
The jury is obligated to follow the court’s charge, to weigh the evidence that has been presented, and to consider only that evidence.
Big difference. Not only do I personally buy her explanation of why she said the sex was consensual when she was asked, but the odds are very, very high that the school nurse knew Owen Labrie. Maybe on top of everything else, the girl thought the nurse wouldn’t believe her if she claimed she was raped by a student the entire faculty seems to have viewed as “Mr. Perfect Prefect.” If she’d been asked where the sex took place, odds are at least some faculty wouldn’t have believed her because in and of itself having the key was a violation of school rules that “Mr. Perfect Prefect” wouldn’t have engaged in.
And, if you are going to criticize the girl for lying…Labrie claimed when he first talked to police that he had not participated in senior salute. He also said he had told the administration about the “tradition” and tried hard to convince it it needed to clamp down on it.
You know what? I actually believe the second statement. What better way to deflect suspision from yourself than telling all the adults you know how appalled you are by the “game?”
While I think that’s utter nonsense, in this case the statement that there was NO sex took place in OPENING arguments. Juries pay LOTS of attention to opening arguments. They are right at the beginning before the jury become tired and jaded. At that point in the trial, jurors are taking their responsibilities very seriously. I would bet quite a bit that at least half of the jurors remember the defense counsel’s insistence during the opening that there was only “dry humping.”
Does anyone else here think that cultural upbringing made a difference here? Simone mentioned the girl came to the US not so long ago… In some cultures, the females are taught to be submissive and never question the authority whatever the authority is…
@LucieTheLake… re the position of his hands: thanks for the correction, I missed that.
Regarding the future of Labrie and others of his ilk, including the more revolting Glen Ridge perps: I am not pleased by the idea of throwing away the entire lives of people who did something awful at their age. It should be possible to put together some process that honors the victim, punishes the perpetrator, and sets his or her feet on a path to a productive future. If no college of any kind will enroll them ever, that makes the situation pretty hopeless in modern society.
I also completely believe the girl’s explanation of why she told the school nurse it was consensual. It makes perfect sense. Especially because she told her parents what happened so quickly thereafter.
@BunsenBurner, where did you read that she had only come to the US recently?
^^^^ I suppose this opinion on whether these types of boys should be permitted access to higher education after this type of incident depends upon your views of whether punishment/rehabilitation works. It is my opinion that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. I would need FAR more information on a case by case basis, and probably a psych degree, to determine whether any particular convicted criminal has been reformed. However, I do agree that if these young men have been reformed, they should have the opportunity to go on with their lives.
Okay, say you don’t fully believe that they have really reformed. They are still jerks who might take advantage of a woman if they thought they could get away with it. What are you going to do with them? Life imprisonment? Let them go after 10 years in professional criminal school without an education or the means to support themselves above a subsistence level, thereby probably creating a career criminal?
Not everyone is meant to go to college. People can be quite successful in other fields.
Maybe I’m old fashioned, but I’d like to think that college is a place reserved for men and women possessing good character. Obviously colleges can’t determine every applicant’s character, but in these cases (assuming conviction), the character has been determined for them.
Edit: I am not passing judgment on any of these people, not having been in the courtroom myself. Moreover, I do agree that, if convicted, once their debts to society are paid and a college decides that they of good character, of course they should attend that college if they want to. I am only suggesting that some people never really reform and are a continuing danger to society. No idea if that would apply to any particular person; it’s a case by case thing.
I’ve known lots of people who either couldn’t or didn’t want to go to college, and this fact did not turn them into career criminals. It’s not an either or thing.
Whether or not they receive additional education, it’s the criminal record which could prevent them from ever being hired. Background checks can certainly put the brakes on the hiring process.
@Nrdsb4, of course not. Lots of people have satisfying and constructive lives without college. (Actually, I’m on record as being in favor of more and better vocational training and a lot fewer kids steered into marginal and meaningless and excessively expensive “college.”) But that’s not what I said. I said “after 10 years in professional criminal school”–ie, prison–“without an education or the means to support themselves.” Meaning no training in anything except criminality at whatever age they get out.
Anyway, I realize that although this pertains to the case, if I want to talk about it I should start a new thread.
