I was trying to figure out what “PG” meant. I always heard that as slang for “pregnant.” Or around here, short for @Pizzagirl. 
@jonri, I wonder if the parents of these students are made fully aware of that policy. It seems that these parents are really transferring their supervisory obligations to a school that is pretty loosey-goosey with the rules. I know that in my house, a boy and a girl were not permitted to be in a room alone with the door closed. I would not be comfortable granting supervisory power to an institution that felt otherwise.
My personal opinion is surprise that if opposite sex members visit one’s dorm room in boarding school, that the door can be closed. However, I don’t think those caught having sex should be expelled. I think outlawing sexual conduct among teens would be very difficult. I don’t think they should make it easy (such as allowing opposite sex members in bedrooms with the doors shut), but this is high school, and let’s face it, many teens do have intimate relations. I think counseling for birth control and also about date rape and so on is crucial. Outlawing sex or being expelled for it, not so realistic.
@midwestdad3, I read that some of these student witnesses have their own, personal attorneys present. What do you make of that? Are they concerned that they might admit to something that could get them disciplined at their own colleges (i.e., some school code violation)?
As I have posted in this thread before, I think this case is murky. I think it is going to be difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt because there are so many versions as to what happened in that room. Lots of conflicting stories from witnesses and from those directly involved (and sometimes even contradicting their own selves). That brings in doubt and difficulty ascertaining the truth with an element of certainty.
@MidwestDad3 Source? I couldn’t find anything like that.
@soozievt, I agree with you. While we are not in the courtroom, the accounts I have read are going to make it hard for a jury to find that felony rape occurred. Don’t you think, though, that there has been enough for a jury to find misdemeanor assault (i.e., consensual intercourse with a minor)? Or do you think that today’s accounts, with some students saying he said they had sex and others saying he didn’t, have muddied the waters even on that count? If so, I think the prosecution made a BIG mistake calling those witnesses.
Edit: I think a LOT will depend on which of these students come across as more credible. If the ones supporting Labrie’s version look like they are lying/covering up, they will be disregarded. Same true of the ones supporting accuser’s version. We can’t really judge that from afar.
RE: School Policy - Doors are closed at all times supposedly due to fire code requirements. Advisors are charged with checking up on students. Dorm room doors do not lock at the school. I’m sure some advisors take that responsibility more seriously than others. The reality is that if teenagers want to hook up they are going to hook up. I’d rather the school have students visiting each other in the dorms where an advisor on duty makes random checks than having more strict rules where kids are going WHEREVER to meet.
school policy:
St. Paul’s seeks to affirm and support young people in their search for appropriate
expressions of intimacy and affection. The School is aware, however,
of the potential for damaging physical, emotional and social consequences
which can result from intimate sexual contact between adolescents. Therefore
the School regards such contact as inappropriate and expects students to
abstain from sexual intimacy. If students are found to be sexually intimate,
the School will respond in one or more of the following ways:
• Students will be required to meet with their dean(s) and advisers to
discuss the circumstances.
• Intervisitation privileges will be lifted and students will be placed On
Restrictions or On Bounds for a period of time determined by the students’
dean. All violations will be reported to the head of house.
• Students will receive a warning letter indicating that a repeated offense
may lead to disciplinary action.
• Parents will receive a letter outlining the circumstances and also will
also be made aware of the probability of disciplinary action should
another violation occur.
• If appropriate, counseling for the students will be required.
The school has equal expectations for all students regardless of their sexual
orientation, and we expect all students involved in romantic relationships,
whether same or opposite-sex, to respect their partner’s privacy and the
privacy of others.
^^^^^^ And the truth is, the incident in question here had nothing to do with dorm room doors being closed. Would’ve happened anyway I guess.
3 students have said Labrie told them sex took place. Only one did not say that. The one that did not say that seems to be the Dartmouth kid who was already off campus and graduated at the time. His roommate of 3 years - and best friend - said that Labrie told him they did have sex. Roommate also stated he told Labrie beforehand that it wasn’t a good idea given the age difference. Still think that is pretty damning.
Based on studies I’ve read, male jurors are less likely to find defendants in rape trials as not guilty vs female jurists. Not something I would have guessed prior to reading the studies.
@prospect1 Again, I haven’t seen any media coverage saying that ANY witness said that Labrie did not have sex with her. I have read that 3 former St. Paul’s students testified that Labrie told them he had sex with the victim. One of these, Labrie’s roommate, denied that he was involved in a contest with Labrie to “score” with the most girls as part of the “senior salute.” However, that same witness said Labrie said he “boned” her. I have never heard that expression used to mean anything other than actual sexual intercourse, but then I don’t live in NH. This witness testified that he understood it to mean Labrie had intercourse with her, but on cross, when asked if some guys embellish things, he said “sure.”
@doschicos, that is an interesting statistic. I would not have guessed that either.
@jonri. Tweet from Kimberley Haas 3hr ago. It was the witness who testified just prior to the defendant’s roommate, the current Brown University student.
@prospect1. Every student (male and female) and administrator who is called to estify in this case should be represented IMO. There are risks for each witness, from possible sanctions for violating school policies, to ramifications in applying to colleges, to possible further criminal charges. I would not be at all surprised if there is an aggressive US Attorney out there pondering whether a RICO violation might be charged in this case.
@MidwestDad3 - It was the kid identified as the Dartmouth student. Also, would you explain the possible RICO violation to us, please? Thanks.
If you are a parent of any of the witnesses being called, I think it would be foolish not to have hired an attorney to represent her/him during the trial. Sure might have cut into the defendant’s success at fundraising for his own defense costs.
I think if my child had been friends with Labrie, any lingering affection I might have had for him would be extinguished when I had to hire an attorney for my own child due to Labrie’s criminal behavior.
Wikipedia has a good summary of the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, and how it has dramatically been expanded into unforseen areas, such as the Atlanta schoolteachers last year. It is a federal statute, and it is used against criminal enterprises.
As to Labrie telling friends he had sex with the girl, I wonder if the defense could claim it was bravado and that he said it just to bump up his score or to look more sexually accomplished even though in reality he stopped short. Because she lied about what happened would the jury cut him some slack in a tit-for-tat, or would they see her lies as evidence of trauma but his as scumbaggery?
@Sue22, what lies from the accuser?
@Midwest3 and @doschicos Thanks for name. Concord Monitor tweets don’t say that…or I missed it?
Boston Globe’s discussion of his testimony doesn’t say that either. http://www.boston.com/news/local/new-hampshire/2015/08/24/friends-rape-trial-defendant-explain-slaying-senior-salute/rGxyvjzzOuvcw1M5yE4qQI/story.html
@GnocchiB Told the school nurse sex was consensual but now says it was not. Friend says she detailed beforehand which acts she would participate in, but now says she doesn’t remember saying that. Said nice things to defendant via social media afterwards but now says she didn’t mean them.