Prep School Rape

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321

“I think the fact that he talked to the police for hours without representation is an indicator of his cockiness, not of his youth or inexperience.”

Essentially all young defendants do this. Lots of older ones do too. This is something that drives defense attorneys bananas – everybody thinks that something positive can happen from talking to the police. The only people who reliably exercise their Miranda rights and don’t talk to the police at all when in custody are lawyers and people who are well trained by lawyers (like the Mob).

In law school, I volunteered with an organization that provided suspects with free pre-arraignment lawyers (the right to a public defender only kicks in at the arraignment). I was taught that “SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP” is the most important thing to say to 100% of clients in custody. We knew nothing about any client or any case, but “SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP” was always the right advice. And all the clients needed to hear it, including lots of people who’d been around the criminal block before and ought to have known better. There seems to be something in human nature that makes us want to talk when we’re in trouble.

322

I agree the guy is a pig. But being a pig isn’t a crime. That concerns me a bit in this kind of case.

323

I am totally put off by what I’m reading of Labrie’s comments to the detectives. I don’t mind a bit of swagger in a young man but there comes a point where humility is far more impressive. This young man, despite his humble background, apparently never learned humility. Maybe it’s because he spent he past four years trying to keep up with the kids of real means.

IMO he would have been far better off in a public school, living with his single mom and seeing how things work in the real world. Of course, he could have always been this way and would have turned out to be a pig regardless, who knows, but I don’t think being in that environment did anything to build “good character” at all.

324

Man, I just read the link posted in post #39 regarding his parents’ divorce. Mom accused dad of sexually molesting him; she brings in lover to live with them shortly after separating with his dad. There is clearly little money there, certainly as compared to his peers at SPS. Dad had $13,000 in his retirement acct and earned $31,000 as a adjunct prof. Wanted wife, who earned around $40,000 as a teacher, to be on the hook for his student loans. And most importantly vis- a-vis their son, they seem to have had a really acrimonious divorce and the mom is portrayed as a liar/manipulator. Not that this should vindicate this kid, but he had to overcome a tough childhood. Plenty of kids have a similar background without growing up to violate someone. But it does make me wonder if his crazy childhood plays into his personality as described here.

325

“humility is far more impressive”

There will NEVER be a detective who takes the witness stand and says “the defendant was humble” when I was talking to him, even if it were true. They would be out of a job.

The defendant really and truly may be an arrogant “pig.” But remember that these characterizations are only the police’s side of the story. Plus, one really has to wonder why SPS made an arrogant pig a prefect. If I were an alum, I’d be calling the Head, demanding the Dean of Students’ resignation.

326

I am, of course, speculating, but I think that something else went on here.

If you are a parent, do NOT ask your kid, whether or not (s)he is a minor “what really happened.” I’d guess that most parents do and it’s a HUGE mistake. First, most states do not have any parent-child privilege. If your kid does break down and tell you, you can be questioned about what (s)he said and you must answer or face the possibility of being held in contempt. That can mean staying in jail until you answer.

Second, MANY, if not MOST kids who get into trouble LIE to their parents or OMIT some facts. They don’t want to get in trouble with their parents. The parents believe the story–if the kids are smart, the stories are especially believable. Convinced that his/her “special snowflake” is in fact innocent, the PARENTS think “all you have to do is tell the police what you just told me and that will be the end of it.” The parents then bring the kid in for questioning by the police, especially if the kid has not yet been arrested. The parents, believing the story, think getting a lawyer is a complete waste of money. Why does someone who is innocent need one?

The kid, thinking to himself/herself, "Okay, my (false) version of events was good enough to fool my (smart) mom or dad. Certainly it will fool the police who are unlikely to be as smart as my mom or I am. So, the kid goes off and tells the same (false) story. The cops, unlike mom and dad, aren’t predisposed to believe the kid and certainly don’t love him/her. They also have a lot more experience questioning people than mom and dad do.

I do not doubt in the least that Labrie’s mom, when she found out what her son had been accused of, was as sure as only a loving mom can be that her son hadn’t done anything wrong. She may well have been the one to push him to go in and talk to the police.

So, if your kid gets into serious trouble, do NOT ask him/her “what really happened?” Do NOT decide that your kid “could not possibly have done something like that.” Get him or her to talk to an attorney.

327

From @jessbidgood

“He said at no time was there penetration,” says Det. Curtin. “He said he was 18, she was much younger than him, he would not do that.”
From @globepete
Labrie denied having sex with 15-year-old saying “telling you I would be inside her would be the end of my life”
@JBlackmanCM

Labrie agreed to speak at length to police about the encounter, w/o a lawyer. Det. Curtin recalled him being polite, rambling, “arrogant.”

It seems he was well aware that any penetration would be wrong, which is consistent with his training as a prefect. He may have assumed he would know what they would be asking about, and what answers would be problematic.

328

“The guilt, the shame, something, prevents them from telling their parents.”

Yup. And the alleged assault isn’t always the root of the fear. Last week I spoke to a young woman who’d been expelled for sexual assault. The accusation against her arose from a same-sex encounter. She is afraid that if her parents find out about the same-sex involvement, they will disown her. So she didn’t tell them anything except that she had decided to quit school. That’s an extreme case, but lots of kids are scared to tell their parents that they were drinking or having sex at all, with the consequence that the parents are in the dark until it’s too late to help. Of course, lots of those parents would have put aside their disappointment and focused solely on helping their child, but the children don’t realize that.

329

To add to Hanna’s spot-on post, some kids are afraid that if they tell even supportive parents the parents will raise a ruckus with the school and that the result will be school disciplinary action for infractions like drinking or hooking up in an off-limits spot.

330

^and often friends might be involved and then they get in trouble as well and child doesn’t want to “rat out” friends.

331

“Second, MANY, if not MOST kids who get into trouble LIE to their parents or OMIT some facts.”

Okay, really going out on a limb here with this suggestion, and I expect to take some heat for it. I wonder if it is a good idea for the prosecutor to have the victim’s father in court comforting her. This tweet from KHaas after the victim finished her testimony: “She cries, leaves room with dad.” And these tweets from yesterday before testimony from other witnesses resumed: “Alleged victim walks in with relatives.” “Alleged victim appears to be crying in front row gallery…” “Alleged victim leaving courtroom.”

One would certainly expect a rape victim to react in this way. But with the parents in such constant, close proximity, is there another inference that might gnaw at some jurors? That having established a particular narrative, she must now stick with it. What if her “no,” actually came a few moments late, and defendant stopped the assault in response to that?

I’m not saying that any of this is the case here. I’m just trying to figure out what the jurors are going to do with the facts that she made decisions in advance about which acts she would be willing to participate in, she prepared for having sex, she says she isn’t sure whether he put a condom on, she told her friends she thought they had sex but wasn’t sure, etc, etc. All this while mom and dad are staring straight at her in the courtroom.

PLEASE don’t think I’m blaming the victim. I am not. This is a very complicated case, involving very young people.

332

I think that’s plausible, MidwestDad3.

ETA: I think both kids are scared and doubling down on their stories and that the truth is somewhere in between.

333

prospect, I had just read this story (http://www.vice.com/read/inside-the-courtroom-of-an-elite-new-england-prep-school-rape-trial-821), which said: “legal experts watching the case say that may not be enough to convince every member of the mostly male jury of Labrie’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.”

Hunt said, “I agree the guy is a pig. But being a pig isn’t a crime.”

No, but I’m more inclined to think a pig would commit this crime.

334

I know many here are speculating Labrie won’t take the stand in his defense, but every article I read continues to report that he will be testifying:

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/st-pauls-rape-trial-friends-testify-owen-labrie-said-he-n415156

And with regard to Labrie’s comportment, I have no doubts that the average law enforcement officer would find a kid as smart as Labrie to be “arrogant” under questioning, but this kid seems to take the cake for spinning his achievements (which, in reality, require no embellishing–he got into Harvard after all) and making misleading statements about his plans for Harvard, which suggest to me he may have been cynically trying to paint himself as a person of deep spiritual leanings. Also, instead of explaining that he’s of such modest financial means that he was awarded the full COA at Harvard, he calls the financial aid he was awarded a “scholarship,” implying that he’s elite even by Harvard standards.

From his fundraising appeal “To All Those Kind Enough to Read My Letter,” dated “February 19, 2014” [sic]:

See here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1KhLmbwoNTxWGp6VDc2N01McG5GcnNmcEg0ZXJ1ZzNsQUNV/view

I think that, at the least, this kid suffers from some grandiosity. He clearly thinks he’s the smartest guy in the room. I hope, if he is called to the stand, the prosecution is fully prepared to take him on.

335

I’ve always assumed that he meant that he planned to attend Divinity School after completing his undergraduate degree at Harvard.

336

^^^Is that kind of like saying someone plans to attend Harvard Law School after completing his undergraduate degree? Seems kind of hubristic to me, but maybe their Divinity School isn’t a tough admit?

337

@MidwestDad3 I don’t think it works in this case.

The accuser’s parents found out she had (allegedly) had sex from her. She’d already gotten Plan B emergency contraception before she told her parents. It is someone from the school–RA?–who heard her hysterical sobbing and told her to call her parents. So, this isn’t one of those cases where the parents found out the girl had sex and she had to come up with a “cover story” to make it acceptable.

@Hunt, Nope…he lied. He “corrected” press reports that he was going to study “Divinity” when half of New Hampshire said “Divinity school is a graduate program.” The “correction” is he’s going to study “theology.” Except H doesn’t have a theology major. That’s what he and Carney keep saying.

What would your reaction be, Hunt, if he’d written I had planned to enter Harvard where I planned to enter Harvard Law and study intellecual property?

Nah…this kid is telling the police that he had experienced some sort of religous conversion and he would not have had sex with a 15 year old, but he was running around campus telling all his friends he “boned” her. Really weird conversion experience, if you ask me.

@RenaissanceMom I wouldn’t want you reading the file in my divorce case either. Lets keep in mind that Labrie was, according to Carney’s opening, 2 years old when his parents divorced. Even if he really said something when he was 2 which made mommy think daddy had touched him inappropriately, I kind of doubt (a) it really happened and (b) if it did, that 18 year old Labrie has any memory of the event. His dad is obviously still in his life and if Labrie thought he’d been molested by him, I doubt he would be.

Also remember that the salaries mentioned in the divorce case are what they were earning in 1997, not today.

338

Ally Manning just tweeted that the state has rested its case after having called 16 witnesses.

339

His dad is the one who is seen in footage escorting him in and out of the courthouse.

If we were to describe the childhood from divorced families as “raised by a single mother”, that would be a heck of a lot of people raised by a single mother in this country.

I agree with @jonri - there is a lot of spin by the defense to paint a picture of the defendant a certain way, including wearing those glasses constantly.

340

@jonri, you misread my post. I said that the mom accused his dad of molesting him-- not that I, or anyone else, believed the accusation, or that it was proved. My only point in my post is that this kid comes from a messed up, dysfunctional family, and maybe his behavior, despite his intelligence, is linked to that dysfunction. And further, if true, that doesn’t get him off the hook for his behavior toward this girl.