@Consolation No. You need to look at more of the expert opinions. #367
He would be a fool to testify.
@MidwestDad3, as I understand it, in a civil case the victim’s name would not be shielded. It does not sound as if the family needs the money, and putting your child’s name on the internet forever in connection with this case would be very difficult. I agree that the school seems to have known about the tradition. Perhaps it continued for so long because families generally don’t want such publicity.
I feel great sadness in considering the two young people; I think it’s possible that the school culture influenced their decisions. It could be that the defense attorney has been emphasizing the school culture in a hope for leniency in sentencing.
The contest Labrie and his buddies engaged in is NOT a school tradition. Raping is not school tradition. I do think the defense plays up the “school tradition” as a way of negating responsibility for the misogynistic and piggish activities of the defendant and his buddies. However, elements of a sexist climate at the school does exist and one could say that it could have enabled the incident. I can’t imagine a scenario where the school would wish to be a defendant in a civil trial. Between @Periwinkle’s points above and a strong impetus to stay out of the press going forward, I’m sure a settlement would be reached prior to any civil case.
http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Prep-School-Rape-Trial-Continues-Monday-322668232.html
So what do you call a repeated practice, known to the community? Not a one-time occurrence, but a pattern of behavior? The students involved were not afraid of drawing a chart on the wall, they were not afraid of moving it online, they apparently felt free to start Facebook groups, send emails discussing the “competition,” female upperclassmen were reportedly warning freshman women of the practice, there was a competition among some seniors, sports teams, and dorms. What do you call it?
I regret that I am so blunt, but from my perspective, multiple young lives have been ruined. It need not have happened. The freedom with which these students spoke of the competition is staggering.
Thank you all for posting your thoughts here. As the mother of 2 daughters in New England prep schools, I am finding this discussion fascinating.
This is what I worry about. I am not “for” ruining anyone’s life BUT if he is not called to account in some way for his behavior in this case I think it will be a tragedy. Is not being allowed to matriculate at Harvard punishment enough for his inexcusable actions? IMHO it’s not.
I’m not saying he shouldn’t be allowed to earn a college degree, but I think he should forfeit his right to live in a selective, residential college community.
“I came to understand the senior salute as one element of a larger vernacular" - vernacular not contest or competition, and as is typical with teenagers, a vernacular that is constantly changing. A vernacular that was coined to describe a student hooking up with (kissing or more) another student before graduation. (Crass and inappropriate, yes, but not a contest with points assigned or a score kept) < This was also commented on in the prosecutor’s opening statements as well as discussed by a few of the student witnesses. Prior to this trial, you’d be pressed to find any alum who graduated earlier than 2009 or 2010 that was even familiar with the term. So no, not a longstanding tradition. That’s not to say that older students haven’t tried to hook up with younger students. Goes on a lot of places and shouldn’t anywhere. I’ve tried to explain this before given history with the school. Take it or leave it but I am done now. Not defending the school just trying to add context and some accuracy to the not so accurate statements that have been made in the media. Again, it is my belief that it benefits the defense to paint Labrie’s contest as a longstanding (not) tradition (not). How the vernacular morphed into Labrie’s contest and whether it was just Spring of 2014 or whether Labrie learned it from some dormmates in 2013, I do not know, but it was neither longstanding nor a tradition. It is valid to think that if the school had jumped more forcibly on the wall (unrelated to Senior Salute but related to the hookup culture), the hookup culture, and the senior salute vernacular, perhaps it would not have morphed into the contest among this group of boys. Moving on…
“he was aware of the senior salute tradition, having learned about it in spring 2013.” - Green took on his role in Fall of 2012, being new to the school, so basically he’s stating he became aware of the vernacular the first spring he was there. In fact, the whole Dean of Students’ Office was/is fairly new, something I did and do have an issue with - no institutional memory in the very important Dean of Students office is not a good thing.
“He added that he was unsure how many other school officials knew about it.” - Something Green should have determined, no? They all do now. Too little, too late.
“It need not have happened.” Definitely not, and as much as the culture may have contributed to enabling the incident, it did not breed a rapist. It’s been reported that the defendant has a history of being aggressive but you won’t hear that at the trial per judge’s orders but this was touched upon pretrial by the prosecution.
“The freedom with which these students spoke of the competition is staggering.” Not sure whether you mean online (stupidity and speaks to an arrogance and a sense of entitlement amongst those involved, yes) or in court (under oath and answering direct questions, they better be speaking honestly and openly about it).
I am going to refrain from saying more as I want to be aware of differentiating between what I know through the trial and its reporting before and during, and knowledge gained elsewhere.
@Periwinkle - I’m fine with your bluntness. It’s always interesting to hear the thoughts, observations, and perceptions of others. It all adds to the conversation. It’s basically a sh*t show all around and one that frustrates me on many levels.
The second half of this video has some legal analysis on having the defendant testify: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/nh-prep-school-classmates-testify-sexual-assault-case-33299896
Here’s another article dealing with this issue. Watch the video too.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/prep-school-rape-trial-defendant-takes-the-stand
Here’s an opinion piece that is worth a read:
http://www.refinery29.com/2015/08/92910/st-pauls-rape-trial-owen-labrie-consent?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Yes! That article linked to above, in #369, captures how I feel about this case. The details I’ve read make it crystal clear to me that this was rape – there is no ambiguity about it other than our societal tendency to blame to victim.
Defense calls the defendant to the stand. A surprise to me, but ultimately it is the client who decides, not the attorney. Unless the defense has some smoking gun that no one knows about, this is a major positive development for the prosecution in this case.
@midwestdad3 - Was the whole deal with the judge asking each juror about being exposed to the media a typical move by the defense?
Yes, you want to get on the record that each juror was asked in case it comes out after the trial that a juror was watching TV and checking out social media. He is preserving that issue for appeal. It also serves as a subtle reminder/warning to the jurors not to read any outside opinions on the defendant’s testimony from today when they go home tonight.
It this being streamed anywhere?
I don’t believe so, because the victim is under age. But there are at least half a dozen reporters live tweeting, including jessbidgood and khaasnh1.
It’s being tweeted that the accuser ran from court during Labrie’s testimony. That doesn’t sound good for the prosecution, but who knows?
@youdon’tsay
If you google #owenlabrie, you’ll get some tweets about the trial. Then you can click on the names of particular reporters and read their tweets.
Thanks.
@jonri Yeah, I think the ongoing crying and leaving is a problem for the prosecution.
@MaterS, this is what was reported regarding the samples:
This is what I said above. If it is contradicted somewhere, please do cite where.
Why is it bad for the prosecution that she cries and runs out?