It really does not matter what the young lady did because by statute she could not consent. What needs to happen is that young men need to understand what the age of consent is.
I expect that this young lady probably gave off a different image than most of her freshmen classmates and that is why he e-mailed her That image does not subject her to sex with an 18 year old either consensual or by force.
They better make sure boys understand that.
Merely knowing about sex is very different than actively planning, then showing up for, and then willingly participating in (up to a point) an encounter with an 18 year old boy that she knows in advance WILL be a physical encounter. This is why I personally label the BEHAVIOR (not the mere thinking about it, the doing of it) promiscuous. That is where I believe HER upbringing failed her.
That said, Labrie crossed the line into criminal behavior by luring this 15 year old girl into the encounter and then having intercourse with her (I believe he did and that the jury got it right).
She was right to speak out and prosecute, and she was brave to lay bare her own indiscretion to secure his conviction. Her conduct, promiscuous though it was, was no excuse for Labrie to take advantage of her.
I would not classify her as promiscuous rather more normal than not. It was not a civil case so her behavior was not on trial. However I do think that elements that influence a person’s decisions positively or negatively come to play in how judges and juries make decisions. Simply calling a alleged victim’s part in the environment as victim blaming is an over simplification and is for juries and judges decision making in a vacuum.
I am dismayed by the poor judgement of both of these students.
Owen should have known better than to get involved in this “tradition”/competition – especially since he was a prefect trained in matters of sexual consent, after all! Two days before his graduation he did something that dramatically undermined his future – and then Facebook posted and bragged about it!
I am glad that he broke down when the verdict came in – at last he may now have some appreciation of what terrible decisions he made throughout this matter – from the months of planning right through firing the lawyer who was pushing for a plea deal.
That is all in addition to the dismay I feel at his using other peoples’ (the young women he “slayed”) lives as pawns in his games.
The young lady complainant was, I guess, naive and wanting to be “cool.” She willingly put herself in a vulnerable position. Perhaps I can be accused of blaming the victim, but her initial negative reaction to his first e-mail invite may have been her best instinct – too bad a “friend” encouraged her to change her mind and go forward.
I can understand that the jury could not make a determination of forcible rape. I think the verdicts were appropriate, although the one regarding use of a computer to solicit sex with a minor is an instance of legislation needing to be better refined – clearly it was not meant to address communications between high school students. But I guess the jury had to go with how the law was written and apply it to the circumstances of this case.
But mostly I am upset about what is demonstrated, via this case, of a “culture” that treats sex as a game, with peers cheering on the action. Was there NO friend of better judgement who would speak up and argue against this agenda? That person could have made a huge difference in the lives of two presumably promising young adults.
I hope those students who egged this “tradition” on for its entertainment value are having some regrets now.
And I have even more disgust regarding any administrators who were aware of this “tradition” of Senior Salute and did not make a priority of addressing it.
ARGH! I hope some good conversations in homes and schools come out of this, at least.
Another lesson to be learned by this case is to listen to your lawyers. Sounds like Labrie kept firing them until he found one willing to collect a high fee to take this case to trial.
Interesting article in the Boston Globe. https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/08/28/experts-weigh-labrie-verdict/rZ36LlTyJPo6LHKMIptdaM/story.html One attorney said:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/28/us/new-hampshire-prep-rape-trial/index.html
I just watched this online. Seeing Owen Labrie breaking down like that he looks like a young boy. Just by his looks I couldn’t have even imagined that he was capable of these actions. I wish every high school student in every classroom is made aware of this case and that it be a lesson to all students that this behavior is not acceptable. I hope as the new school year begins every high school administrator is sending the right message to their students of what will not be tolerated. I hope that parents share this lesson with their kids and use it as an opportunity to reinforce positive behaviors and accountability for their actions.
People send their kids to boarding school for a variety of reasons. I think it is worth exploring those before making a judgment. In our case we live in an isolated, rural area where the teens don’t have much to do (and thus tend to make bad choices). Our local high school is good but not great and the nearest private high school is 45 minutes away. Until they can drive, the kids need a parent to take them to practices, events, and things during the afternoon - most have a SAH mom, which I am not. I have a son who is a real leash tugger/adventurer and very independent. We took him to an open house at a boarding school just to explore and he was absolutely enthralled by the experience. He then did the work to research schools, take the SATs, did interviews, etc. Because I do work we could afford it (though it is not easy). There are some elite, entitled types at school, but most of the boarding school kids I’ve met are amazing, smart, driven, caring, creative people. My son says that boarding school has made him a better person and I tend to agree.
Sexual assaults happen in places other than boarding school; in fact, I only know of one other public example of a sexual assault at a boarding school and that was 5 years ago. And, boarding schools provide a ton of structure and oversight, more than high schools. There are adults living in the dorms, the kids have mandatory study hall, and they are kept incredibly busy with activities.
This case is indeed intriguing and enlightening for many of us parents. I think that I have been in denial and a bit naïve as to what teenagers actually do these days. If you have a twitter account, check out Prepconfessions on Twitter. Sure opened my eyes and puts some of the facts of this case in context.
Another lesson we should take away is that rape in the context of a consensual sexual encounter is nearly impossible to prove. This is why I’m getting more and more focused on prevention as I see more of these cases. I’m for whatever works, whether that’s bystander intervention, training young women in self-defense, anything that works. I hope that the pilot program in the Canadian campus study that cut assaults in half in the first year is implemented and studied across the board.
I went to a prep school, split day and boarding. Sex happens. Not as much as many guys wanted but back in the pre-internet 70’s it was not exactly unknown, even though the girls had to be checked in and out of their dorms. Since nearly everyone around me went either to Catholic or public school, I have to say sex happened in those places too.
To me, outside of the fact that this was brought as a rape case, there is nothing new in the sexual behavior. Teens become sexually interested and then active at different ages. Or as my girls said, everyone in our k-8 schools knew “those girls” and I don’t think that’s a social problem but one which a) may just be differences in how those people age, with some becoming more sexual overall and more sexual earlier and b) may reflect whatever issues go on in that family and in the psychologies of its members. One of my friends, also a father of daughters, would say he worries about safety not about what they do or don’t do that some might find objectionable or praiseworthy. I also try to take out the moral labels: life is a bunch of experiences and some are mistakes and you hope people aren’t damaged by their mistakes but can learn from them.
My oldest girl, having been involved in (and once founding) women’s centers has always been concerned about situational sexual pressures. As she has said, the best way not to get raped is to not be around athletes when they’re drinking because athletes in high school and college (and the real world beyond) exist in a context where sexual liberty and sexual conquest is highly laudable and they are driven to live up to that hyper-male model and often feel empowered to act, especially when they’re drinking. This can happen even with otherwise decent guys, which shows both the power of drink and of the social context in which sexual conquest occurs. As she has said to me, they’re not only entitled bleeps but it’s sort of a competition and you’re part of that game if you hang with them.
I also try to take out the moral labels: life is a bunch of experiences and some are mistakes and you hope people aren’t damaged by their mistakes but can learn from them.
I agree with them
What your D wrote about athletes can be applied to many groups of males not only those involved in university athletics. I have seen it with frats and even with groups living on the same dorm floor.
Number one is most high boys and girls do not consider themselves children, they consider themselves teenagers. Only parents think 15 year olds are children and there is no “magic” that makes 15 years olds suddenly grown-up at 16 or 18 year old males suddenly adults at age 18. I have a modicum of faith that the prosecutor and the judge will come up with a punishment that makes common sense and hopefully if the girls behavior does not fit her family expectations that her parents will get their heads out of the sand, and she will get some attention or focus or at a minimum get her some birth control. Sad situation and it happens to the “best” of kids from the “best” of families.
I agree totally with you. Despite what some are saying, I don’t think kids today are any more promiscuous then we were back in the ‘good old days’ (of the 1970s!!!), saying “what is up with these kids today?” is the lament of parents from time one. That said, though, the problem today is things have been accelerated, with social media and the net in general and texting and all of that, it has made the stakes a lot higher than they once were. For example, I would be willing to bet the ‘senior salute’ at that school probably dates well back before my time, I have heard similar stories about prep schools going back into the 1930’s and before, of girl’s ‘soiled’ and so forth. The difference was back in the good old days it was covered up, after all couldn’t have the next president of XYZ bank sullied, and the parents of the girl covered it up out of shame, that their daughter was soiled…one of the reasons we here more of this today as well is that back in the day, the cops would likely laught and say “boys will be boys” or ‘the girl was a slut’. Things have changed a lot, and I don’t think the US was some sort of holy nation back then, in fact I know it wasn’t, it is that it was simply buried, kept under wraps and not talked about, my dad talked about it (he would be 92 if alive right now). When people talk about the good old days, how it was different back then, they are talking often about the illusion of what was publicly shown, not what the reality was.
Someone talked about traditional societies, where women went to their marriage bed as virgins and so forth, and that is problematic, too, it assumes a lot of things that aren’t true. One of the dirty secrets of Islamic societies today, for example, is that sexual abuse and rape is not an uncommon thing, it is a major problem. And if they ‘respect’ morals so much, how come suicide bombers are tempted by the thought of being a martyr (for 72 virgins, mind you) or ISIS, where they are using children as sex slaves, we hear how moral they are? I hate to tell people, but that purity and such in history is also something of a myth, the big thing in traditional societies is to pretend like everyone is morally pure, like when women go to their marriage bed they are virgins (but interestingly, little emphasis on the men). Like Victorian England, much of the claims of how sex was a genie in the bottle back then, how everyone was all so pure, saved themselves for marriage, etc, was all about the show, as long as it didn’t frighten the horses and children, they pretended it didn’t exist.
@JEM post #783…you summed up my thoughts on this case perfectly.
I don’t think kids are all that different today than since the birth control pill became easy to get. I think girl-women are more overt about their sexuality, but that’s about it. Back in the early seventies we knew darn well which girls were having sex but it was a pretty closed mouth sort of thing but who knows what the guys were saying to each other in the locker room. I don’t think we cared that much, we were more thrilled to be empowered to say yes or no and make choices. I know my mom, a fifties kid who of her own account was abit “wild” was also happy for my generation not to be so encumbered by a society who held beliefs that women were weak and powerless. I honestly don’t think high school boys think “jail bait” with freshman and sophomore girls. And if the law is going to say that 15 year olds are off-limits to 18 year olds then we need to do a better job of talking to kids in state’s that have laws like this…boys hands off, girls don’t tease and keep your clothes on. The texting/e-mailing charge is just silly and totally misapplied from the intent of those types of laws.
Such evidence as exists in this trial indicates that prior to this encounter, the girl was a virgin. That meant having sex with her would garner more points in the competition Labrie was engaged in. Because she wasn’t having sex with anyone she didn’t need birth control. If that changed and she VOLUNTARILY decided to have CONSENSUAL sex, the girl was a student at St. Paul’s and could easily have obtained birth control from St. Paul’s without her parents’ knowledge.
And, I’d bet a lot that this young girl is not sexually active right now. It’s going to take a long time for her to trust a guy again.
IMO, the relationships in the girl’s family seem incredibly strong. When big sis found out what Labrie had done, she punched him in the face. While the girl delayed telling her parents because she didn’t want to mess up her sister’s graduation weekend, she told her mom about the attack almost immediately after graduation. Earth to clueless parents: one heck of a lot of teen girls would NEVER tell their moms this story in a hundred million years. We have respected, adult members of this community who have posted their own sexual assault experiences with the ending “I never told anyone.” While lots of very personal stuff came out that would cause many parents to abandon their daughter, her parents didn’t. They’ve stuck by their daughter.
They deserve praise not criticism.
What planet do you live on?!!! Owen Labrie KNEW the law. When interviewed by the police, he said “if I was inside her, my life is over.” St. Paul’s undoubtedly has better sex education than most schools and Labrie was a prefect who got extra training.
You probably just haven’t run into them. There are plenty of west coast families sending their children to boarding schools in the east. However, many do it because they assume it will provide “an edge” in college admissions, not because of a family tradition or anything like that.
@momofthreeboys As Lergnom suggested earlier in the thread (the attorney in the Boston Globe article did too) the computer charge/verdict may be basis of an appeal. I hope so, and I hope that conviction is thrown out. It mandates a punishment that does not fit this particular crime.
That said, all parents of highschoolers should talk to their kids about this case. It offers plenty teachable moments for both boys and girls.
@Prospect11 , post 765. A big Yes. I guess I and a few others here belong in another century for having higher standards than most of modern society (at least in the western world). What a degenerate, “advanced” society.
In any case, the entire situation is revolting. I think he and she deserve each other and that the school is disgusting. Call me a prude; I don’t care. My children were never involved in such adult activity during high school. Too busy studying their brains out, doing their e.c.'s, traveling to competitions. I knew where they were all the time, which was variously at their single-sex school, their adult-supervised activities, in the homes of parents who shared my standards, or at home with me present. Had very little social life, what little time was left for that. They had a social life through 8th grade, some in college, and a lot beyond.
If I had been an alum of that school (highly unlikely), I would cease any donations and write the school a letter it would never forget.