Prep School Rape

BTW, when my S was in sixth and seventh grade, it was largely the girls who were the sexual aggressors, often towards boys who were one or two years younger. For example, I knew someone who returned a call on her answering machine because she thought is might have been her older D, and the girls who answered said, “X (her 7th grade S), are you going to come over and have sex with us?” When she identified herself, taken aback, they replied, without missing a beat, “Oh hi Mrs. Y, is X there?” She was stunned.

That same year, there was an infamous “blow job party” among the jr high set, at which a bunch of girls apparently willingly arranged to service a bunch of boys. (Besides the obvious, what really got me about it was that they didn’t seem to expect any satisfaction in return…) The HS ended up cancelling all of the dances that year because a bunch of 9th grade girls came to the first one drunk.

My point is that the idea that 15 yr old girls are uniformly frail little innocent flowers and boys are uniformly sex-obsessed predators is inaccurate.

Don’t get me wrong, no matter what has happened, when she says no that means no and that’s the end of it. And, as I have said earlier, I don’t think 15 yr olds should be having sex with anyone. Even if they are technically sexually mature, I don’t think that they are emotionally ready for it.

Let me just put it out there. Here’s an idea that no one seems to have considered: what if Owen Labrie was actually telling the truth? What if instead of being the cynical, sexually experienced “stalker” he is portrayed as here, he actually was a pretty inexperienced guy who got caught up in the whole adolescent male bravado/pack behavior thing of the “contest,” and actually did prematurely ejaculate, then have a moment when he came to himself and said “this is wrong” because he actually DOES have beliefs that he was in the process of violating. What if he then lied about it to “the guys” in order to keep up that adolescent male bravado? What if the fact that he did not actually consummate intercourse with her is the reason he was unwilling to take a plea?

Even if it is true, it doesn’t make what he DID do right. But I don’t see that it is necessary to view him as an evil genius sexual predator in order to say that what happened was a bad thing. And while I’m at it, the fact that he sent an email to some other girl makes him a “stalker”? Give me a break.

I, for one, rather than gloating that “he’ll never be a minister” hope that he does in fact become one, if that is what he really wants to do as life goes on. I think that ministry in general could use more sadder-but-wiser people with greater insight into human frailty.

Girls tend to be way ahead of boys socially during middle school years. But boys more than catch up by latter years of high school.

So the junior and even senior girls who ask out freshman boys at the HS level are sexual predators, right? Because they are so much more mature than the boys? 8-|

@Consolation, was your freshman son asked out by junior and senior girls? I don’t think that happens much. But maybe I am wrong.

At my daughter’s high school, most dating was same-grade or one grade up or down.

Come to think of it, I am friends with a couple who met and dated in high school. She was a senior and he was a freshman. They continued to date in college (ended up attending schools not too far apart geographically as well and then she took a job near his college) and are still married today 30+ years later! So I guess that can happen…weird, huh.

Make that two who think this.

I don’t think Labrie got in trouble for asking out a 9th grader. :wink:

I know two 30 year old guys who dated 16 year old girls.

One of the guys used to wait at the high school for his girl friend to get out of school. There were people who worked with him who used to see him parked in front of the high school…waiting. His fellow co workers thought this was very creepy. The 16 year old came from a broken home. No father around. Or the father would have killed the guy. :slight_smile:
They are divorced now.

The man in the other couple was a high school teacher. He dated a student…while married to somebody else. I thought he was a great teacher. They have been married for about 40 years…well I know she is alive and using his name. Maybe he is dead. :slight_smile:

@oldmom4896, not my S–who avoided dating in his HS like the plague :slight_smile: --but friends of his.

S’s first “summer romance” at CTY was with a girl who was two or more years older, though.

I think the allegations and convictions here pretty much preclude his professional employment as a minister.

Interesting post, @Consolation.

I don’t have it handy, but I believe the NH statute under which he was charged defines rape as penetration, so the other 2 parts of his body that he used count even if he didn’t “consummate” intercourse. So he would still have been guilty of rape even if he zipped it up as in your scenario … and things like lying about the fact that SHE brought the condom before admitting he had supplied it put all of his testimony in doubt.

I don’t disagree that the ministry could use more sadder but wiser people, I’m just not sure that he is the one. How could any female parishioner ever feel safe?

@consolation, in this thread I’ve only heard the girl referred to as promiscuous. Even though she rejected his advances at first, even though he was the one keeping a list of “conquests”.

Why are there so many words for promiscuous females and not for males? Years ago, some man was being nominated for a judgeship or whatever and it came out that he might be a security risk because he was a “womanizer” (this was during Bush Sr.). One of my coworkers didn’t quite know what that meant until I told him it meant he was a slut. YMMV

I can think of many words for a promiscuous male. One is “promiscuous male.” There’s also tomcat, and others probably banned on CC.

Like racial slurs against white people, they just don’t pack a lot of heat.

Oh, please. I personally would feel completely comfortable around such a minister. It’s not like he violently raped her (so says the jury who heard the evidence). Innocent until proven guilty. He was not proven guilty of forcible rape. Therefore, he is innocent of it. I suppose I could fear that me might repeatedly email me and beg for a date. How scary.

No…innocent was not one of the choices. He was not found innocent.

He was found not guilty. The law presumes innocence until proven guilty. Innocence is PRESUMED as a matter of law.

Doesn’t matter what the legal presumptions are when you are in the court of public opinion.

The court of public opinion is just that-opinion. I presume and opine that labrie is innocent of forcible felony rape. Your opinion may differ. You and I did not sit in court and hear the evidence. The only opinions that matter and have legal effect are the ones of the jurors.

Half of your contention is true - the jurors opinions are the only ones that have legal effect. However many defendants find that no matter what the verdict, the court of public opinion can be their biggest problem to overcome. Look at OJ or Casey Anthony or any of the police officers that were acquitted/not charged in race related deaths or violence. Very, very different cases but the judicial system was the least of their problems when all was said and done.

In that sense opinions do matter.

@harvestmoon1, yes, that is a true observation.