And other people are entitled to disagree with it.
Her name was already out there. Various websites where crude young men congregate are full of vicious remarks about her and her sister that long predate this interview.
Just from the general information given in the press about her and her sister I was able to figure out who she was after a little googling months ago, during the trial. (And I did not hear or see the open court reference.)
I really don’t think she seemed “coached” at all. I do think that it was clear she had thought long and hard about it, and was not talking off the top of her head.
I think it is unclear from the article whether she suffered from anxiety and depression before the crime. How did others read it? In any case, she was clearly very young and vulnerable. I still think that the “luring by computer” charge is BS, but Labrie is clearly a … not a nice person. And his choices smack of profound arrogance. Maybe it covers equally profound insecurity, but there seems to be no evidence that anyone has gotten through to him yet.
I put quotes around the word victim because I wanted to impart that I was using that as a label. She, of course, was a victim of what happened.
She is, in some ways “every” young girl these days growing up in an affluent social strata . They grow up very fast and like all young people are quite vulnerable to the desire to be 'wanted", the desire to be popular, the desire to, yes, be sophisticated in the sense that many have been exposed to many things because of the affluence. And sadly some of the young women have also grown up on a steady diet of Princess Diaries and romantic fairy tale stories and are just learning the power of their sexuality. She is very much a “victim” both from the true criminal sense of the word but also a victim of an early teen culture like so many young girls who are “older” than their years that my kids grew up around. She even looks like 80% of the girls that have passed through my house. What makes me infinitely sad is that two young lives were changed irrevocably and it did not have to be but there is very little that can be done about that in hindsight it’s over and it is what it is. This family lawsuit is intensely personal and is separate from their grievances with the accused. It should give pause to parents who turn their children over to others to raise because you are abdicating control which could apply to both of the young people’s families. But I don’t feel good about the family “outing” itself on national television…I just can’t feel good about that.
Well, my kid grew up in an affluent area and I don’t think she even knows what Princess Diaries are. She doesn’t believe in romantic fairy tales. She does like Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
The family can’t win. They go public and they are outing themselves. If they stay private they are hiding something.
I disagree that it was a tragic mistake to go public. Going public only turns out badly if other people subsequently act worse toward the young woman than some of the young men at St. Paul’s did over the summer and when she returned to school the fall afterward.
I think that attitudes like the one that momofthreeboys expressed in #1783 tend to silence rape victims.
It is the woman’s choice, of course, and no one should be pressed to speak; but this attitude is very unfortunate, if it prevents a survivor who would like to speak from speaking. I think that we as a society will only begin to deal with the issue of assault effectively when we recognize its scope and implications for the survivor–or alternatively (and worse), when assault has become so common that many people are only one or two steps removed from a victim.
I could not agree more with doschicos, #1775.
I also think that St. Paul’s keeps looking worse as events unfold.
Funny (not in the haha way!) how society doesn’t expect robbery victims or physical assault victims (or any other type of victim of a crime for that matter) to remain silent and hidden. We sure are a puritanical bunch aren’t we?! [-(
I think it’s already that common. I think people started accepting gays when they finally realized how many people they knew that were gay, but keeping quiet. Sadly AIDS made it less of a secret and then people started speaking out. I can’t speak for rape victims and say they should be obliged to talk, not having been one, though I’ve been in one situation that had me scared I wasn’t going to get away. However, I do think already as more women are speaking out attitudes are changing. I’m hopeful.
And yes St. Pauls looks dreadful. If I were looking at prep schools I would not send either a boy or girl there.
Don’t worry you all show your biases also and I own my thoughts. I repeat, in this case, I would not want any more scrutiny from the media around the circumstances of this case were this my daughter for many reasons and I am not inclined to spell those reasons out.
I was impressed with this young woman. I hope other victims of assault have the chance to hear her and are able to draw strength and inspiration from her. I see no reason for her to hide in shame. It is a process to overcome such a trauma and she should be honored for coming forward.
Agree @VMT and others - there is absolutely no shame in being sexually assaulted, any more than there would be in being robbed etc. (as someone else said - sorry I don’t see it and am on a small device!!).
@momofthreeboys - I’m also the mother of three boys and I would be outraged if they had any of this kind of attitude, the blurring of the bright line between consensual and nonconsensual sex. And also, I’m not so into shaming people for consensual sex anyway. Does anyone really think that “marriage prospects” or “career prospects” would be harmed by having been the victim of a crime? That’s appalling if so.
Please don’t tell me we’re back in caveman times when a victim of a rape is supposed to hope that her assailant will marry her now that she’s ruined for good company.
She has been victimized 3 times: by a boy who literally seems to have no conscience, by a judicial system that essentially puts the victim on trial, and now by St. Paul’s who showed little or no support for her in the beginning and which now seeks to drag her through the mud. I applaud her for speaking out.
Thanks to @GnocchiB for posting the Vanity Fair article. It was illuminating. It must have been a bit painful for a St. Paul’s alumnus to investigate and write the article. After reading that St. Paul’s families are helping to fund Labrie’s appeal, and that the wider community shunned the victim when she returned the next year, I wonder about boarding schools. I know it’s wrong to draw a sweeping conclusion. If I were a parent considering BS (I am not), this would make me think twice, whether I had boys or girls.
I was a border my senior year in high school. It was single sex which I think cuts down on a lot of this stuff. I know some girls still managed to find ways to have sex, even on campus, but it was rare. If there were lesbian relationships I did not hear about them back then.
But it’s the whole macho culture of keeping score that really bothers me. I can’t believe that the St. Paul’s administration knew about it and did nothing to stop it.
Our local high school had the “Senior Salute” about 10 years ago, and while it’s not exactly a cultural backwater, it is usually a few years behind the times. The practice must have diffused its way toward our part of the country from somewhere. So I am extremely skeptical that the administration at St. Paul’s did not know about it. In fact, since the headmaster’s wife was sent a Senior Salute invitation it is pretty clear that the administration did know about it. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, “Senior Salute” was virtually never just about kissing and holding hands. That claim seems to be a later exculpatory embellishment.
momofthreeboys, I think that you might have grown up in a culture where a woman’s marriage and career prospects would be affected by being a known victim of rape. If so, it casts some light on your viewpoint–although your early posts confused me somewhat about your attitude. You realize that viewpoint is outside the mainstream American culture? You must have noticed that very few of the people posting on this thread share your point of view.
I would like to reemphasize that the young woman at St. Paul’s turned Labrie’s invitation down flat when she first received it. Only after a young male classmate of hers, at Labrie’s behest, persuaded her that Labrie’s intentions were “honorable” did she agree to go out with Labrie. From what I have read, Labrie told the young man what had happened, right after the encounter. But I have not seen any report of the young man’s reaction–which might have ranged from “high five” to slugging Labrie for virtually turning him into an accomplice. No telling how much the young man knew ahead of time.
I grew up in a culture where a woman’s marriage and career prospects would be affected by being a known survivor of rape-- right here in the US. I applaud young women who are brave enough to recount their stories and challenge that culture.
But why would it matter if she was? I don’t care if she was coached, or spoke as a result of extensive counseling, or spoke straight from the heart. The indisputable fact is, she was the underaged victim of both an adult male predator and an uncaring, negligent boarding school. She has something to say and her words might help other people.
It doesn’t make sense that she’s been coached to say all the right things to score big in this lawsuit against the school. She’s going to score, or not score, based on what proof there is of the school’s negligence. What happened to her isn’t in dispute, and that’s what she spoke of in the interview.
Since she was being forced to go public anyway, the best way to protect her from creeps and misogynists was to tell her story in her own words; to humanize her, so to speak. Knowing that she had been the target of really ugly web sites, if she were my daughter, you bet your life I’d get professional coaching advice to make sure that her story was told in such a way to minimize the base temptation of creeps and deviants to want to harm her. I’m sure there is a whole psychology to this type of thing, and I’d want the best possible advice in that respect. If she was coached in that way, so what? We’d all do the same for ourselves and our daughters facing a national interview of this nature, for our protection.
I don’t understand what SPS and its lawyers are thinking. Court decisions hardly matter. The school reputation matters. Relationships matter. Kids matter. People are going to remember.
That said, a court decision here could matter if there are other girls in line who were also victims of this appalling game. How many other underage girls were lured into sexual acts by senior (over 18) boys in this (and past) “senior salutes?”
As bad as Labrie is, I am finding it very possible that he wasn’t the only one engaging in 18 yr old/15 yr old pursuits. After all, the game was all about seniors (very likely already 18) and younger girls. And, typically, the statute of limitations does not begin to run on claims until a child reaches the age of majority. There could be other potential claims waiting in the wings depending on how this case turns out.