Present PhD student regrets not attending Ohio State for undergrad. Long rant post

I am making a post that’s not typical because I am not a current student here. Rather, I’m a Ph.D student at an R2 university in Michigan (won’t say which one cause I’ll out myself). I am someone who was slated to enroll in the 2013-2014 academic year, but declined Ohio State and being part of their Scholars program to go to Bowling Green State University (BGSU) instead.

Despite my parents poking around and becoming a research assistant at a neuroscience lab with a full professor (who is now at the University of Toronto and got tenure recently, which is awesome), 29 with a 3.7 GPA (unweighted, my high school graduating class was 7 people and there was no AP, IB, Honors courses, or even foreign language courses so no weighted GPA here), and completed 26 credit hours dual enrolled also with a 3.7 GPA (I know most coming in get like 40 something credit hours nowadays but for the time this was a lot), I did not enroll. The reasons why I think were kind of dumb in hindsight. Here is the list.

1.) Would’ve had to take a ton of remedial classes. (My math was so bad I was at pre-algebra levels to be exact. Can’t remember if English or writing was in there but all I know is that those classes wouldn’t have counted towards my major).

2.) Not all of my credits would transfer from what I remembered but BGSU accepted them all.

3.) Generous merit based financial aid. A now removed merit scholarship BGSU gave me was $6,000 a semester on top of an additional $2,000 a year before I got kicked out of the Honors College at BGSU (more on that later but someone needs a 27. Ohio State didn’t give me any merit scholarships and I distinctly remember my buddy with a 35 going to UC since he got a full ride (tuition + room and board) and a stipend to live. Since I never quite crept my score up to a 30 due to my low math score, I wasn’t eligible to get room + board covered at BGSU. Although I regret not applying for more scholarships I still graduated with around $26,000 in debt for my whole bachelor’s (living on campus was required for two years, but I did 3 given I didn’t have my act together finding apartments independently and would melt down over the process), which isn’t terrible especially given my parents income bracket didn’t qualify for needs based financial aid ($250,000 combined) and they were bad with money to the point me and my brothers were on our own for tuition, this was not a bad thing.

4.) Despite the above point about them being bad with money and not getting any merit based financial aid, my parents almost forced me to go to Ohio State and would’ve paid whatever difference I couldn’t take out for student loans to fund my time there.

5.) I would’ve been able to join the lab I was in already if I enrolled at Ohio State. To this day, I was the only high school student a PI ever took and could be a research assistant. He wrote me a letter of recommendation for undergrad AND grad school, which was huge.

6.) Massive internship opportunities so I could do something with my BS in Psychology.

Reasons why going to OSU may have been bad (playing devil’s advocate):

1.) I had around a 2.5-2.6 cumulative GPA after my first year at BGSU. Second year, I had a 2.9 cumulative GPA. I had to appeal to keep my scholarships, twice. By the next Spring review though, I had a 3.7 GPA in Fall 2015 to bump my cumulative GPA up to a 3.1. My final GPA was a 3.1 (ETA: 3.3 with transfer classes and a 3.5 PSY GPA with As in Stats, Research Methods, and a B in Stats II). For those wondering what I studied, I got a Bachelor of Science (instead of a Bachelor of Arts) in Psychology since I was told my that lab at OSU that a BS was more sellable to graduate schools than a BA. I had to take math classes up to Calc 2. I had to retake Calc 2 (withdrew the first time since I was going to fail it) and thankfully got a B in it, which helped my GPA.

2.) Precalculus (which I could start at based on my ACT score) was 5 credit hours, Calculus I was broken up into two classes worth 3 credit hours each (6 total), Calculus II was 5 credit hours as well. Grades in those were: C, C, and B (note that BGSU doesn’t do plusses or minuses).

3.) Foreign language. I took two semesters of Japanese at a small liberal arts college. I was originally going to take Intermediate Japanese to knock out my foreign language requirement ASAP once I got to BGSU but it turns out what they covered in two courses at that small liberal arts college was what was covered in one semester of Japanese at BGSU. I was forced to take French instead and start from scratch on the foreign language requirements. Thankfully, the two Japanese courses I took counted towards other general education requirements (and it’s not possible to “double dip” and have them count for both either sadly). I got Cs in all French classes (4 credit hours each) other than the Reading French class (it was taught in english but we read poems and short stories in French before discussing them as a class).

4.) Little merit based aid. Since my parents wouldn’t qualify for needs based financial aid and I was on my own for tuition (to this day, my brothers and I are infuriated by this. Had we known their true income, we would’ve tried to convince them).

5.) Bad first year would’ve probably been multiplied at Ohio State. At BGSU, I had public meltdowns in the dorms, would leave classes quickly when the end time hit, struggled with personal relationships, social cues, and had poor stress management. At the time, I was (and still have) autism, ADHD-I, dysgraphia, social anxiety, generalized anxiety, and moderate depression.

Overall, I would’ve had a stronger research background if I came out of OSU, had internships (BGSU didn’t require any so I never pursued them), and so much more even if the cost was huge due to no merit based scholarships. I currently have around $54k in debt after my Master’s (they’re rarely fully funded in my field) and, although I would’ve had the same at Ohio State, I could have probably gone straight to Ph.D easily and not have had to do a Master’s beforehand. Welcoming any thoughts, comments, or reactions.

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Thoughts and comments about what? You are where you are and need to look forward and not backward.

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You’re a PhD student - and in Psych…so is this some kind of therapy ?

Nothing wrong with Bowling Green. And it got you to a PhD program in a high research university.

You are years out of school. Sure I joke I shouldn’t have gone to a private undergrad and spent all my dad’s money. But I did. And he never cared and I don’t live in regret.

Lives are long. I’m sure you’ll have the chance to do something great with yours.

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Experimental Psychology so I don’t work with people at all. My Ph.D program sadly isn’t the best and has massive budget issues, which is part of why I am making this rant. Sadly, research output in my department is very small and there isn’t many external funding going in at all.

My Master’s experience was also the only reason I got into a Ph.D program in the first place since my undergrad performance was “good not great” since I was above a 3.0 but didn’t graduate with honors.

So your undergrad choice isn’t relevant. If you went to OSU you’d likely not be in an R1 PhD.

You are who you are. The situation is what it is. Lots of schools are cutting back.

Look forth. You can’t change the past.

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Bowling Green has around 470 undergraduates in their psychology department, and aroing 5-7 student who attended Bowling Green have received PhDs every year in the past years. OSU has 1,800 psychology undergraduates, and around 20 students who attend OSU as an undergraduate have received a PhD in psychology very year for the past few years.

There is no actual difference in the percent of students from each of these two universities who wind up receiving a PhD. There is, therefore, no reason for you to assume that attending OSU would have made your path easier.

Then why are you doing a PhD? what is your end goal?

Most importantly - do you really have a good plan that you think will help you reach that goal?

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I missed that - that was a choice you made. Sorry. You’d have likely made the same choice no matter where you went.

Hopefully you can achieve your goals and pay off your debt.

Your assumption is, as a subpar grad school type student, is your life would have been different at OSU. I concur. Your debt would have even been higher!!!

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I should clarify a bit (I’d edit if I could or knew how to do so). My Ph.D is fully funded, but my Master’s was not.

My initial plan was to get into industry but now I’m trying to find state or federal work at the moment that aligns with my background and does not mind that I don’t have publications. I’m currently going through vocational rehabilitation services, the federal workforce recruitment program, and a job tour program through Disability:IN to get job matched with social scientist or market research positions.

I’m also applying to UX research intern positions as well.

Truth is that, looking at your list of pros and cons, I do not see that attending OSU would have put you in any better situation. There is no reason to believe that your GPA would have been any higher, which would have still required you to do a Masters, but in that case, you would have had strident debt from both your naters AND your undergraduate.

There are few jobs for a psychology PhD that can pay enough to pay back that much debt.

It really seems that you are likely in the best place that you could be, considering your only recently diagnosed disabilities, which would not have been diagnosed earlier at OSU.

I’m sorry that you had to deal with that, but attending OSU would not have helped.

Next question: does the government have the sort of jobs for an experimental Psychologist with a PhD, that you are looking for? How many are available each year, and how many PhDs are bestowed each year in experimental psychology?

Before you continue to spend time on your PhD, you should make sure that you need a PhD to do what you want, and see if there are decent chances that you will be able to get the job that you want.

While your PhD is fully funded, you are also losing out on possible financial opportunities. So your PhD is costing you money, albeit potential money.

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Some other clarification points I should note too. Every disability I listed other than my ADHD-I and PTSD are all ones I knew I had the whole time.

There are research psychologist positions that hire those with Experimental Psychology degrees. As for the exact amount of Experiment Psychology Ph.Ds each year, I’m unsure. The positions for research psychologists will also list 1-2 per year.

As for where my Ph.D is right now, I am slated to graduate in May 2024 with my Ph.D. I’m at an R2 for my Ph.D.

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Congrats to you. You know how so few earn a PhD. It’s an awesome accomplishment.

And you’re so close.

March forward, not backward!!

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It will be nice to have a Ph.D for sure but I’ve sadly graduated with the bare minimum by not having any publications. Every resume screener and/or person who has hired Ph.Ds explicitly told me they would be skeptical of someone with my background even though I have reasons.

Your most important task now is to focus on getting those publications out.

And keep applying to a variety of jobs. Worst case scenario, you work as a research tech in an academic lab for a while after you graduate, while also applying for other jobs.

Change the future; stop dwelling on the past. If you need to publish, then work toward it.

I should have mentioned this earlier but I haven’t published at all for a variety of reasons. The latest one in particular is particularly concerning and is why I’m going through vocational rehabilitation and the Federal Workforce Recruitment Program to see if I can land jobs where I’d normally be overqualified and not need publications. All of this is to say that I’m not expecting to get any out the door before I graduate at all. I do want to attempt to publish my dissertation once that’s done though.

-First advisor dumped me and the program (on them, not me. Even though I was the aggrieved in the situation, that detail apparently looks bad unless I state in my cover letter she was leaving anyway. All projects I had in the pipeline went kaput)

-Was told to work 7 hours a day on just my qualifier project and only collect data for one other project. Ruined any shot of securing grants or proposing other study designs.

-Starting my Ph.D in the midst of COVID and graduating from my Master’s during COVID (more canceled research projects). I finished my Master’s while I did the first semester of my Ph.D since I defended my Master’s thesis later. I had to rewrite it due to COVID canceling the in person eye tracking study I planned on doing for my thesis, but I had to defend pilot study data from my first year instead.

-Budget cuts to assistantships that forced me to work at an outlet store and then as an adjunct

-No external funding (outside of my teaching fellowship but that was my doing before my symptoms got worse and is why I’m teaching full time at a visiting position at a SLAC this academic year)

-New major health issues: PTSD, borderline cognitive functioning, and recently learned I have a strong possibility of liver disease that has caused my fatigue these past 8-9 months and possibly affected my cognition (fatty liver disease or Hepatitis C)

Worst part is that’s not even everything. Those are the highlights.

OP- hugs. I get the need to rant.

But now rant over. You are where you are, and honestly, there are zero guarantees in life so you may have had everything perfect and orderly and going your way and STILL ended up in exactly the same place.

My suggestions?

1- You need to get healthy. Make sure you are dealing with your chronic illnesses appropriately; get the right diagnosis for the acute stuff, and like anyone- make sure you get enough sleep, exercise, the right nutrition based on your medical team’s recommendations.

2- Finish as strong as you can. There are ZERO guarantees that even with a strong publication record and presentations at the right conferences you’d have landed the job you want… so just put your resentments aside and finish.

3- Figure out how you are going to live. If that means teaching AP Psych at a private school (most don’t require a teaching certificate, and many have fantastic benefits including generous health care which you need) then do that. It’s not a lifetime- it’s your bridge to whatever the next step is. It pays better than an outlet store which you’ve already done. Or look for an entry level job in market research or some other corporate function-- many market research folks have degrees in Psych (typically just a Master’s) so the interviewers will understand (more or less) your track and won’t care AT ALL about your publication record.

Hugs to you. You’ve had some challenges but now that you’ve gotten your issues off your chest- time to pivot.

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I’m sorry to hear all that. I am sympathetic to your situation. I endorse everything @blossom said. If you drink, you’ll obviously need to stop (you likely know that but just in case).

You have provided us with a lot of explanations for why things have gone the way they have. I’m glad you’ve gotten some of that out.

I’m going to be blunt, but I’m hoping this will help you. Unfortunately, the people that will hire you won’t really be concerned with those reasons or explanations. They want to know if you will perform well at the job and be a good colleague. That’s it. So you have to focus on communicating that to them through your actions and words.

If you’re planning on publishing – do it. I understand that it’s hard for many reasons (I’m an academic scientist). But if you’re realistically not going to publish, cut your losses and put it behind you.

It sounds like you have some good ideas for getting a job. Work super hard at that, and I think you’ll be okay. Blossom’s job ideas are also good. And an academic research tech job won’t pay very well, but you’re qualified, it’s a known entity, and at least you’ll be working productively in the field until you can get something else you’d prefer.

You gotta put all this stuff you can’t change behind you – go to therapy if that will help! Focus on what you can change. Onward and upward. Hang in there.

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This is rather strange to me. I have a PhD but work outside of academia. When applying for jobs, no on has EVER asked me about publications. I lack them, too, because pretty early on I realized I wasn’t going to pursue an academic career, so I never really bothered trying to publish beyond the minimum required. It has never made a bit of difference when I have applied for non-academic jobs. No one has ever asked and no one has ever cared.

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Just curious @worriedmomucb - isn’t publishing a part of earning the PhD degree - ie a requirement?

Caught up on everything now. To address the latest reply (I am still new to this site so I don’t know if I can reply to multiple folks or not), my program does not require any publications. I’m just concerned since the name of degrees (Experimental Psychology Master’s and Applied Experimental Psychology Ph.D) implies a publication record of some kind and/or relevant internship experience. I may be visiting at a small liberal arts college full time but it id highly unlikely I will ever pursue academic full time since it’s too cognitively demanding of me in my current state. Once I’m healthier than maybe, but my student evaluations for teaching are low and that reflects my poor state right now.