Presidential Scholars Present Bush w letter deploring torture

Parent Cafe
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<p>Wow! To confront the president like this took courage, research, brains, and conviction–kudos to these kids. </p>

<p><a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19424797/[/url]”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19424797/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Good for them!</p>

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<p>Glad to see that our students aren’t settling for just a photo op! Good on them!</p>

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<p>That’s amazing.</p>

<p>Good on them.</p>

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<p>And his answer was, “We don’t torture?” What a nice, thoughtful response. <em>rolls eyes</em> I’m really impressed by the students, not so impressed by the president. Though I can’t really imagine what else he would’ve said. He’s not excellent at thinking on his feet.</p>

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<p>“We don’t torture” is like Madam Secretary Mendaciousness telling us “we don’t rendition”. And it doesn’t matter what the elected Congressional representatives say. They don’t even try to cover up their lies anymore. </p>

<p>Just another terrorist nation that systematically disregards the rule of law, and uses terror to create fear as a “conventional” tool of foreign and domestic policy. Not a single conviction (or even trial) of a so-called “enemy combatant” at Guantanamo, and they are likely to close it before there is one. Two million refugees (most of them secular and pro-Western created). Anbar Province now made so safe – “pacified” that Baghdad hospitals are now refusing to go to the Jordanian border to pick up medicines supplied by Doctors Without Borders and the Middle East Children’s Alliance.</p>

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<p>This is slightly off topic, but only just. About this rendition stuff. Back in fall 2001, when I for one was only just finding out that bin Laden existed, I distinctly remember reading in Newsweek (in an issue chock full of articles about all the high tech “stuff” our military/intelligence was going to use to catch bin Laden and his gang) that one of the things we were going to do to al Quaida (sp?) was send those we caught to foreign prisons in countries who could torture them for us. Honestly, I vividly remember reading about this as a tactic.</p>

<p>Of course, this was in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 and maybe everyone was still emotional enuf to feel like really sticking it to them, but no one called it “rendition” or anything other than what it was, ie, sending the goons off to be tortured where it was legal to torture. No one, not even Newsweek seemed to be offended by the idea, yet now, 6 years later, everyone is all surprised, shocked and outraged to “discover” that our gov’t’s been doing what was publicly discussed from the get go.</p>

<p>Can someone explain the “surprise” in all this to me?</p>

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<p>Big pat on the back to those courageous teens who give many of us much hope for the future.</p>

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<p>“Can someone explain the “surprise” in all this to me?”</p>

<p>Actually the concept of using rendition was begun in the 90s under Bill Clinton. So, no there should be no surprise.</p>

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<p>Actually, the concept of using rendition was begun in the 80s, under Reagan. Use of the practice was authorized in the 1990s by President Clinton, yes, but the practice has exponentially grown under el jefe.</p>

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<p>I don’t see how our collective failure to react to word that this was being done (on whatever scale) in the past has much significance to what our response should be to it now. Now we do know it’s being done - and being done in our name. Do we go along? Is the fact that we failed to protest before somehow a justification for not protesting now? Is the fact that it happened while there was a Democrat in the White House a good enough reason to keep doing it now? I find it particularly sad that we engage in these morally corrosive activities in the absence of significant evidence that it has provided anything of value in the past, macho posturing notwithstanding. If it had, there would at least be a moral dilemma.</p>

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<p>What would constitute such evidence? Perhaps the capture of hundreds of terrorists - including much of the top echelon of al Qaeda, the disruption of numerous terrorist plots and no attacks on the homeland for 6 years? I’d say that is pretty convincing evidence and for me not much of a moral dilemma at all.</p>

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<p>Can you prove that we have captured the top echelon of AQ?</p>

<p>I am just seeing that no matter how many terrorists we seem to capture, there are at least two to ten more waiting in the wings.</p>

<p>And remember FF, many more soldiers have lost their lives to terrorists in this war than the number lost on 9/11. So, indeed, we have had plenty of death and destruction due to terrorism. But I know, I know. It’s better “over there”.</p>

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<p>how do we know that we have captured hundreds of top terrorists? oh yeah, because they TELL us they have, same people that told us about WMD, etc</p>

<p>yeah, that’s one group that always has its fact straight</p>

<p>it is amazing that no matter how many mistruths we are told, people still believe</p>

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<p>yeah, that 14 year old boy, whoses case was just thrown out, he was the gov poster child for terrorists…</p>

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<p>Here’s a partial list:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.msnbc.com/modules/wtc/wtc_globaldragnet/custody_alqaida.htm[/url]”>http://www.msnbc.com/modules/wtc/wtc_globaldragnet/custody_alqaida.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;