<p>eternity hope, you say that the Indians who go to American schools top and get into the best colleges, that maybe, but can you seriously tell me about any of these brilliant Indians after college. They’re unheard of, while I could start rattling of the names of born and bred American scientists who are ruling the world. </p>
<p>Simply speaking applying what you’ve learnt is different from learning by rote.And one more thing, you can ace the IIT if you practice the given types of problems enough. But who’s bored enough to do that?</p>
<p>Basically, MIT takes students with demonstrated problem solving ability (so that they have the ability to learn and pass whatever classes at MIT they need to). The other prerequisite is one or a couple true, demonstrated academic passions. Entrance exams serve to tell students what they need to learn. These exams are one metric for ranking applicants; but it not the only metric, and neither is it the best metric. I don’t see many people arguing against this either, but it seems to have become ingrained into Indian culture and the cultures of similar nations.</p>
<p>The purpose of middle school is not just to get into high school. The purpose of high school is not just to get into university. The real benefit of top universities is not in Math, or Physics - it is in opportunities for social and professional networking. Young people at that age of their life should be encouraged to strongly follow their academic passions, rather than worry about a test while they are still freshmen and sophomores.</p>
<p>Nah its not about Indian culture, its just that applications arent feasible here. Imagine trying to trawl through the apps of millions of people!</p>
<p>Well, at least the brightest and most individualistic students can apply to MIT! :-)</p>
<p>Without eliminating the concept of entrance exams, I feel that the tests could be made to better measure personality, drive, and wellroundedness. The first thing to do is to eliminate organic chemistry and calculus based physics in favor of puzzle type of questions, and maybe even creativity tests. Actually, it would be a very interesting research project with applications to joint entrance exams to try to devise a test that would measure student’s potential in correlation with the students that MIT, for example, would accept.</p>
<p>I agree with River Phoenix. The best part of MIT is the people you get to know. You can learn Calculus from a book at any college. But will you get a prof who can teach it to you in a way that inspires you?</p>
<p>River Phoenix: There is also a difference in the types of people at MIT and IIT, and their ambitions. I’m willing to bet that a vast majority of people aiming for MIT want to do crazy research, be with the top people, and do something to change the world. A lot of people aiming for IIT are in it because they believe that companies will hire them.</p>
<p>Personally, the way I would do it is give the students a reasonably hard problem(6 of them), and not ask for the answer, but how to get their. The problems wouldn’t require calculations, but rather, you’d have to be able to describe what steps you would take, etc.</p>
<p>I heard about an interview at Microsoft a few years ago. They had 10 guys in a room, and said, you have one hour to write an OS. </p>
<p>Most of the guys made simple text based OS’s, but one guy didn’t even touch the computer. He was the one who got hired. Why? Because he had planned out how to make a fully fledged OS that people would consider using. Some of his improvements were directly addressed in Windows Vista.</p>
<p>Absolutely I have. Complex numbers - to the level that you’ll find on the JEE, are covered in the US curriculum. I agree, most US high school students haven’t done linear algebra. A lot of the mathy ones have. And the linear algebra questions on the JEE aren’t very tough. They really are just exercises, with the occassional slightly tougher exercise (I won’t call it a problem yet) thrown in.</p>
<p>As River Phoenix points out, I’m not from India, and I’m not Indian. I have seen former math JEEs (posted on AoPS) and discussed the problems. That’s were I’m getting my info.</p>
<p>River, were you at Math Field Day? I’m from Troy; I didn’t realize we ever played Grosse Pointe in QB. At Field Day, we faced you guys for the last two years in Swiss Game and such.</p>
<p>Edit: Do you have a sister who goes to the same school you do?</p>
<p>Well I know very well that the Indian education system has a long way to go, if it is to ever match the education system in the US. But given the overall situation in India I think the system is practical and good.</p>
<p>MIT is obviously a better university, no doubt.</p>
<p>My point with this thread was that AP’s are by no means as rigorous as the JEE. Obviously there are students like tetrahedr0n and River Phoenix, who are involoved in other academic activities won’t find the asian entrance tests that difficult ;)</p>
<p>But by and large I doubt that an AP student would be able to do well on those tests. (ie, Physics and Math)</p>
<p>I’m sorry but chemistry is just at a completely different level. :p</p>
<p>u also have to remember that alot of middle class indians want their kids to basically make money, thats why they study like crazy…whereas in the states each student has his own passion</p>
<p>Japanese education system is ruthless. I believe it is the same level of difficulty in India but Japan can afford more things for their education. Entrance into top Japanese universities is scary - it makes schools like MIT and Harvard look generous in their acceptance rates.</p>
<p>Havaldaar: the reason you dont see as many famous indian scientists as american is because the british colonization which effed up a lot of things for india caused many problems… which is probably a big reason why india is still a 3rd world country. a lot of people from there are very poor and only recently did indians come to 1st world countries to get higher education. india is not too different from china in that matter. so basically, you can also ask why arent there as many chinese scientists as american…</p>
<p>The smartest, richest minority in America are the East Indians. The smartest, richest minority in Europe are the East Indians. Furthermore, East Indians, as a result, have been stereotyped to be smart (which kinda sucks).</p>
<p>So please spare me the lecture about famous Indian scientists. Just take a look around you and you’ll see that Indians are the smartest people in many democratic, foreign countries.</p>
<p>When people think of muslim countries, they steoreotype them to be dangerous and radical. Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, what not? When people look at India, it’s the opposite. They respect and even envy their intelligence. Everyone knows that India has one of fastest growing IT industries. Many Americans are psst. off at India due to job outsourcing. Many Indians now work for American IT companies for a much cheaper price than American workers and this is drastically affecting the IT job market in America. </p>
<p>All you can harp about is Indians not producing famous scientists?!!? Please tell me you have a better argument than that.</p>
<p>Indians end up being very smart and capable of IT/Programming jobs, because of their educations. The same goes for the Japanese. But because their schooling is so structured, fewer of them end up with the freethinking and creativity is needed to do something revolutionary. This is an acknowledged problem, which eventually will be solved.</p>
<p>hey halvadaar,
being an indian, which i’m pretty sure u are, u should take pride in you heritage and nationality. A reason why Indian remains a third world country is because of the attitude of the majority of the people. After all, India and Egypt are the oldest civilizations in the world and yet they both are third world countries. They both have sufficient natural resources, labor, and intelligent people. The only reason that is holding countries like India and Egypt back is the attitude of its people. Take a look at Japan, they were completely devastated after President Truman ordered the drop of the atomic bomb. Regardless, they’ve emerged as a succesful country with the world’s third largest economy with one of the highest per capita income. Japan doesnt have an abundance of resources either. They’ve got alot of mountain ranges. Take a look at Singapore. They were a third world country until Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yu took over. Singapore has no natural resources at all and yet they’re a first world country only because of the attitude of the people. I believe India can become a first world country if the attitude of each and every citizen changed. In the village’s people have got more kids than they can afford. Even though India has the fourth largest GDP (correct me if i’m wrong) the population makes India a third world country.
anyways sorry for the long boring lecture…if u want i’ve got a power point presentation of why Indians should be proud of their country…i know i am a bit weird =)</p>
<p>“ake a look at Japan, they were completely devastated after President Truman ordered the drop of the atomic bomb.”</p>
<p>Not true… US helped Japan after that
Did Britain help India after colonization… hahahaha!! </p>
<p>Sorry if this sounds kind of mean but the history of Japanese “Atittude” ****es me off seeing as how they copied the europeans/chinese in EVERYTHING. If it wasnt for the Dutch, Japan would be just like Thailand or Indonesia today… rather than a PSP makin, pokemon-ruling the world with its crazy gameboys n what not- country</p>
<p>even tho’ they copied europeans/chinese, they’ve outperformed both the countries in almost every aspect… i agree that the states helped the japs after hiroshima/nagasaki, but the reason japan is a first world country is because of the attitude of the people…if japan can copy other countries and become successful…why cant india?</p>
<p>IMO, the first the indian gov. has to do is establish some sort of population control, like china…maybe not as severe as china…
only then will the country be able to increase its per capita income…well thats just my opinion…apparently some people are proud that india will soon become the world;s most populus country!</p>
<p>So you are praising Japan for outperforming Europeans, yet you call them “japs.” I hope you realize that the term “japs” is a degrading term, and something your probably don’t want to use.</p>
<p>Personally, I believe that India is too corrupt(the government), and the attitude of the people is such that without a revolution, I just can’t see the situation dramatically improving.</p>
<p>Either that, or radical population control. </p>
<p>PS: India is already the most populous country in the world, except the world census hasn’t been taken recently enough.</p>
