Pressure Sucks!

Colleges & Universities Massachusetts Institute of Technology
101

<p>Through hard work among the students and other children of India, it will pull itself out of its third world status. Education is the key to everything. It is the hope of India. One of the main reasons Japan was able to pull itself out of its original situation was because of hard work. The rigorous and sincere educational study of the Japanese youth for decades is the reason why they have succeeded and climbed to a first world country.</p>

<p>Just because the US threw a few billion dollars into reconstruction of Japan is but a minute reason. The US donates billions to many other third world countries and they haven’t shown near the success that Japan has. Why? It is because the country of Japan is hard working and the youth have struggled and succeeded by using education as an advantage. </p>

<p>India is following the footsteps of Japan and though it will take time, it will slowly move the status from “3rd world country” to “2nd world country” which is enough. Once the time is ready, once again, India will finally become a first world country. It may take a century or two. It may even take melennia but it will happen because the future of India shows youth that are promising in every manner. </p>

<p>Sure, the extreme population is problem but anything can be solved. Japan has more people per foot than any other country in the world and yet is coping so well. It has learned to solve its problems.</p>

102

<p>well i didnt realize ‘japs’ was degrading…
n’ways…india needs some major changes…esp pop control!
has the gov. done anything on this issue?</p>

<p>excellent point eternity_hope…
also look at singapore…they were a third world country before Lee Kuan Yu helped reform the country…india has natural resources, human resources (too much of this one), intellectual ability, and money…what needs to change is the attitude of people in india…lots of indians, esp middle class and poor, are after the money…only the people of a nation can reform the nation…</p>

<p>ps: u got any ideas on how to control the population…</p>

103

<p>

You also have to account for inflation, in the 1950’s a few billion dollars was A LOT OF MONEY!! And Japan didn’t spend a dime on military installations because of promised US military support. So please look at the complete picture.</p>

<p>

Singapore didn’t spend a penny on military equipment either, atleast till 1967. They were protected by Great Britain.</p>

<p>On the other hand the chinese invasion exposed the weakness of the Indian military which led to loads of $$$ being spent on military equipment. Then those wars with pakistan, and liberation of bangladesh also have to be factored in. And since India decided not to ally with the US or the Soviet Union during the cold war period it wasn’t given those billions of dollars in aid until it was pretty late.</p>

<p>You also have to account for size and population.</p>

<p>And please don’t give me that crap about corruption in India because frankly speaking it’s a problem prevalent in ALL countries. The only difference is that in some countries its concealed properly and in some its exposed easily.</p>

<p>The fact is that India is doing very well given that its the largest democracy in the world.</p>

104

<p>“The fact is that India is doing very well given that its the largest democracy in the world.”</p>

<p>You’re joking right? If you call politicians hiring gang members to go and force people to vote one way or another, we’ve got to completely redefine democracy. Where the police don’t enforce the law, but can be paid out?</p>

<p>In a democracy, everyone is well informed about the events of the day, and select leaders after a careful analysis of what policies they support.</p>

<p>Also, look at the nature of a lot of people. My dad forgot his shopping bag in a store. He remembered 5 minutes later, and bam, it’s gone. Here, I forgot my wallet at a gas station for 3 days, and I recieved a pleasant call, informing me I had forgotten it there. I had been searching my house.</p>

<p>A country is not measured by it’s rich metropolises, but by it’s poor villages or low slums. Because there, the standard of living is a near direct measurement of the effort the government puts in.</p>

<p>To quote my mausi in Palwal, “It’s a miracle that Bharat Mahtra operates the way it does today.”</p>

105

<p>

Well but GW Bush’s father’s supreme court friends deciding whether he should be president or Al Gore is perfectly normal and democratic. </p>

<p>And when will you start evaluating the complete picture. India is NOT the USA. India cannot match the US in the $$ dept, or in the technology dept and we have a billion people living in the country so stop expecting miracles from the country which hasn’t even had 60 years of freedom. </p>

<p>I’m just so sick of people talking about ooh where did all those billions of surplus dollars go, why can’t our economy be as stable as the US or Japan, why aren’t our cities as clean as theirs.</p>

<p>Judging by your dedication to the sciences, I guess you’re probably heading to RSI and then MIT. You’re smart and well informed, so please act like that.
Be realistic and optimistic, Rome wasn’t built in a day.</p>

106

<p>Of course India isn’t the USA. I’m not expecting miracles. I’m expecting a revolution. Probably a violent one at that. </p>

<p>A country is not measured in GDP, standard of living, military power, foreign assets, but by the people and their attitude.</p>

<p>I’m not very old(junior in HS), but from what my life experience have exposed me to so far, here is what I have learned:</p>

<p>A) Everyone is equal. No matter who you are, what your education is, no matter what, you are equal to every single other human being. You are not special.</p>

<p>B) Its not what you are inside, but what you do that defines you. </p>

<p>C) If you don’t understand how/why something works, you are putting yourself in danger.</p>

<p>D) Respect is the most important thing. And respect is due to everyone, goes double for elders.</p>

<p>…</p>

<p>tired, anyway, I’ve been thinking that after highschool, I’m going to go on a volunteer mission(not christian one), in some South Asian country.</p>

<p>Of course I don’t live in India, so I’m not entitled to discuss the merits of the Indian Governments operations, finances, and status. I’ll leave you real Indians to solve the problems, while I(NRI) just watch around.</p>

107

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</p>

<p>This comment spawned a lot of replies. My reply is that differences in national policy made a HUGE difference in which poor countries became developed the fastest after the disintegration of the British empire and other imperialist systems. A really good magazine to read every week for understanding these issues is The Economist. (Bill Gates says that the reason he doesn’t watch TV is so that he will have time to read The Economist.) One astounding fact I learned about Taiwan by reading The Economist magazine is that the year my wife was born, her country (Taiwan) was poorer than Zambia. Zambia. Lousy economic policies meant that initially food self-sufficient, resource rich Zambia stagnated, while sound economic policies meant that famine-prone, resource-poor Taiwan thrived. Today Taiwan is wealthier than several former colonizing countries in the European Union, and is on track to become wealthier than Britain at current rates of economic growth. </p>

<p>Policies matter. I learned that by visiting Taiwan (where I lived for three years), Hong Kong (STILL a British colony until recently), and China in the early 1980s. Very similar cultures get different economic results if the government’s leadership varies. India had remarkably lousy economic policies, based on mistaken theories of economics, for much of the post-Independence period. Today the various political parties in India are gradually reaching a concensus (based partly on the example of China, which itself is largely based on the example of Taiwan and South Korea) about what sound economic policies are, and gradually implementing those policies. Today the diligent citizens of the world’s largest democracy have considerable hope of enjoying better governance and more prosperity each year in the future, and I wish them well.</p>

108

<p>“Of course India isn’t the USA. I’m not expecting miracles. I’m expecting a revolution. Probably a violent one at that.”</p>

<p>True that… </p>

<p>I think a person like Gandhi was the only one EVER in the history of India able to lead “revolutions” … it was just a shame that he never got to finish what he wanted to do. </p>

<p>But seeing how India is today, I doubt we’ll have another Gandhi…</p>

109

<p>Well Sagar, I’m going to have to disagree with most of your points.

Maybe in a spirtual “we’re all human” sense everyone is “equal”, but in life people are NOT equal. It’s one of the most blatant and idealistic lies I’ve ever heard. People are not the same and it’s inherent in our genes and environment. Some people are obviously born wealthier, smarter, better looking, etc. And as for “you are not special”, I can’t disagree with you in my case, but try telling that to Stephen Hawking, or Lance Armstrong.

On the contrary, what you are on the inside DEFINES what you do.

Disagree again. Common courtesy should be extended to everyone, but respect is different. I respect many of my peers more than some of my elders. Age does not entitle you to respect. What you do and who you are does.</p>

110

<p>Actually, a person’s success is the result of environment, opportunities, and genetics. I’m actually pretty shocked you of all people would think of it in terms of absolute equality. How can you decide what would happen if you and some boy in a village swapped bodies at birth? Would you be the same person? Would you have the same influences in your life? The opportunities, parents, and genetics you have are all chance. Since you don’t have a direct control over them, in reality, you aren’t any different from the boy in the village with no control over his influential factors.</p>

<p>If you survey people, you will find that most people are against littering. Yet if you stalk these people, you will find them littering unconsciously. In today’s world, a man is not measured by his intentions, but by his actions. If the president has an affair, but says he didn’t mean it, what would run through your mind?</p>

111

<p>i would agree w/ sagar on the action counting more than intention.</p>

<p>I am doubtful that India will be a first world country - the pop. growth must be controlled w/in the next 10 years or India’s pop will never stablize, let alone reduce. We are looking at anywhere from 1.5 to 2 billion Indians in 2050.
Also, Goldman Sachs estimates that India’s GDP will be $26 trillion by 2050 - that money will not go down to the lower classes - the rich and the middle class grow richer while the lower class just gets poorer.
India’s democracy is its drawback - Western media outlets delight in saying that India is a “vibrant democracy” - ********.
In India, hardcore criminals are effectively rehabilitated into society - they go on to become politicians or power-brokers.
How is Laloo Yadav still in power?
Congress exploits Muslims and uses them as a vote bank.
I am glad Gandhi was assassinated - I would have loved to see his response to Pakistani attacks on India - turn the other cheek?
Gandhi-Nehruvian socialism is to blame for the “hindu rate of growth”</p>

<p>Since this thread appears to be dominated by Indians and my fellow NRIs -
Which Indian political party do you support?</p>

112

<p>i agree with neutralnuke…
something has to be done about the population…the gov. should advice the poor to not have more than two children. Some people in villages have around 6 children and they can barely afford to feed all 6 of them.
as far as political parties go…i’ve never really favored a single political party as i’ve never really taken a liking to indian politics…
.</p>

113

<p>yes 2 children per family will lead to stabilization
Laloo has 9 children - w/ people like him in gov’t, pop. stabilization seems to be a lost goal</p>

<p>although there are a few things i dislike about the party, I’m a BJP man.</p>

114

<p>true…
i believe it is up to the younger generation to initiate some sort of reform in india…only then will we be able to emerge as a first world country…instead of running to the US and other countries…indians should stay in the country and help build its economy…
so the gov. hasnt done anything on pop control, eh?</p>

115

<p>yes, another good step would be to jail all the communists and use “encounters” to kill of Naxalites and terrorists
gov’t can’t do anything on pop. control except educating women, recently the RSS or the VHP (hindu nationalist parties) urged hindus to have more babies or there would be more muslims than hindus soon – see, very destructive and asinine ideas</p>

116

<p>jail all the communists and use “encounters” to kill of Naxalites and terrorists </p>

<p>neutralnuke<br>
For some reason the more you talk, the more I am reminded of Nazi Germany.</p>

<p>Seriously, is everything worth sacrificing to the idea of becoming a first world nation. What about civil liberties and democratic ideals? Supressing alternate socio-political doctines would be nothing short of a peverse moral cataclysm and would just bring india closer to being a corruped police state.</p>

<p>Though Gandhi-Nehruvian Socialism is to blame for many things, where would India be without Gandhi?</p>

117

<p>your reminiscence goes well w/ the commie parties’ line - they label all of their opponents as fascists
you are right that india would not be where it is w/out Gandhi but i think that the main reason for Brits leaving india was the weakness of the empire in the postwar world
civil liberties & democratic ideals? these are laudable concepts but in India these concepts are misused - politicians hire gangsters to win votes and often eliminate their opponents
in several states, commie rebels routinely kill all “capitalists”, the commies oppose any liberalization of india’s economy and think that the USSR was a utopia</p>

<p>terrorists - often they are captured, yet human rights groups claim they are innocent and want them to go free</p>

<p>the allusion to nazi germany is not entirely wrong - india would have been a much better country under the iron fist of an indian dictator like Lee Kuan of Singapore or so. A model india would have followed the path of East Asian Tigers - Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea -> dictatorship combined w/ strong economic reforms and eventually democracy</p>

<p>india could never be a police state - the police are sycophants of politicians or gangsters</p>

118

<p>i agree with neutralnuke to some degree…the terrorist mo fo’s definately deserved to be killed. I’m sick of being made fun off for being an indian, especially by dicks from first world countries. and what the f is up with urging people to have more babies. is the VHP trying to make india a better place or playing some childish f-ed up Hindu vs. Muslim games…the population control has seriously got to go into effect in the near future…is the gov. even considering the idea of pop. control? come to think about it…maybe india should’ve remained a british colony…all the other countries look down on india as if its some piece of ***** or sometin…damnit…we need to get rid of the old ass political leaders and replace them with someone who can actually do some <strong><em>…our political system is really messed up…we have heads for every district…like MLA’s and bull</em></strong>…we need to get rid of that and simplify our gov. S korea, singapre and taiwan are excellent examples… Lee Kuan Yu was an excellent leader who took singpore from third world to first. we need someone like that…we need to educate our people…esp the villagers who’ve got like 5 kids and cant support them…to me it seems like the gov. is proud that india is the most populous country…i’m ashamed of india being the most populous country…</p>

119

<p>“your reminiscence goes well w/ the commie parties’ line - they label all of their opponents as fascists”</p>

<p>^^ I am not categorically calling you a fascist. I am just pointing out how similar your ideas are to fascist ones. </p>

<p>“the allusion to nazi germany is not entirely wrong - india would have been a much better country under the iron fist of an indian dictator like Lee Kuan of Singapore or so.”</p>

<p>^^There is a very subtle difference between a dictator and a fascist dictator. You mention the impracticality of democratic ideals and civil liberties in india and yet you suggest a supression of human rights in order to remedy them? Granted some dictators have been able to do wonders for other countries, but at what cost? Are the very fundamental “categorically imperative” rights of humans worth sacrificing to the ideal of a better country? </p>

<p>“dictatorship combined w/ strong economic reforms and eventually democracy”</p>

<p>^^ a dictator who decides to establish a democracy so that he may relinquish his own power??? That is a funny concept.</p>

120

<p>" a dictator who decides to establish a democracy so that he may relinquish his own power??? That is a funny concept." - I’ll admit that Lee Kuan Wee was no dictator but he was a political “strongman” - read the Legacy and Controversy section on <a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew&lt;/a&gt; - and yes, he still has substantial influence in Singapore - he turned it from a third world country to a first world country</p>

<p>“You mention the impracticality of democratic ideals and civil liberties in india and yet you suggest a supression of human rights in order to remedy them?” - who said anything about remedying them - I just want to suppress certain elements - like the retrogressive commie parties, not all political parties </p>

<p>"Are the very fundamental “categorically imperative” rights of humans worth sacrificing to the ideal of a better country? " YES, YES, and YES!!! I admire China - China will be a global superpower thanks to socialism? no, democracy? no, dictatorship? no, but only b/c of an open market economy</p>

<p>The “categorically imperative” rights that you love so much - I just want to deny them to groups that threaten the entire nation’s development - the commies, rebels, terrorists
Did not Lincoln jail several Marylanders suspected of being Confederate sympathizers</p>

<p>The “ideal of a better country” is holy to me, and human rights takes second place to that - look at the world superpower - US - native americans were decimated to make it a reality - the Confederacy was defeated at the cost of several Americans’ lives </p>

<p>please look at Nepal - the maoists there kill several innocent people weekly if not daily, but when the king usurped all power to fight the maoists and secure nepal, the whole world criticized him .
almost never has any nation expressed sympathy for the innocent nepalese killed but when someone wants to correct the problem, the whole world wants democracy and human rights at the expense of the deaths of several humans</p>