Princeton ($50K/year) vs Stanford ($70K/year), math or electrical engineering

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Hi all, my youngest has narrowed the offers to two. We’ve been to Princeton multiple times thanks to the EA acceptance and my kiddo loves it - has sat in on classes, eaten at the dining halls, met a handful of current students. All good.

The Stanford acceptance 5 days ago was a pleasant surprise. Kiddo is still leaning heavily toward Princeton but will visit Stanford this month and wants to go in with an open mind. They applied to these types of schools because of the excellent liberal arts education in addition to good engineering programs, although they are now leaning slightly toward math instead of engineering. VERY interested in quantum.

Here’s what we’re thinking - what are we missing?

Princeton pros: Huge undergraduate focus, excellent access to research opportunities, great academics for both electrical engineering and math, strong in quantum research and undergrad quantum courses, easy travel to home (we are in New England; rail service is great), semester vs quarter system, better financial aid although we can afford both places without taking out loans, proximity to NYC

Princeton cons: Hm, kiddo loves it so far - what should go here? Princeton seems to be the next on the list to be targeted by the current administration, but idk if that should even be a consideration or not, as no institution feels safe. Will have to take 4 semesters of a foreign language if they switch from engineering to math (kid does not love this, but not insurmountable)

Stanford pros: hey, that weather - and living in a completely different part of the country is a great opportunity. Same excellent academics as Princeton from what I have heard, although I don’t yet understand how quantum is at Stanford and we’re only just beginning to dig into the curriculum differences. Proximity to San Francisco. More flowers :wink:

Stanford cons: We are hearing there’s more of a business/entrepreneur focus (true??), not as much access to undergraduate research, less of a focus on undergraduates than Princeton, some residence halls are scattered/distant, the quarter system can be harder for internships & REUs, costs $20K more per year (although, again, we can afford this), travel home will be painful.

Kiddo is planning on grad school after; both schools are equal in setting up for that goal.

What have we missed? This is going to be our kid’s decision, but we want to make sure all pros and cons are well understood.

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I think he loves Princeton - so you’ll know after you go to Stanford. He’ll love it more or he won’t.

Any school leads to grad school - so yes you’re fine there.

Stanford Weather - ehhhh - bay area - i’d disagree. It’s not So Cal. Personally, I think the Princeton campus and immediate surrounds (the town) are 5 notches better - but that’s subjective.

If there’s a con against Stanford engineering, it’s that only Civil and Mechanical are ABET accredited. Now at most schools that matters - but doubtful it does at Stanford. But there are many jobs that require ABET accreditation - at least they list in in the description.

Princeton is accredited in Aero, Chem, Civil, Electrical (since 1936), and Mechanical.

I’d go Princeton for that assurance - if he does EE. This way, you never have to even think about that.

But given the Stanford name, that might be me over thinking.

Good luck.

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Congrats to Kiddo. There are no bad choices here.

A pro for Stanford is that its engineering has been ranked in the top 3 for decades, (with MIT and Berkeley). Princeton is great, but not the big 3. But that alone is not worth $20k more.

Disagree with a couple of your Stanford cons. They, like P’ton, have so much money, that undergrad research is easy to obtain. Plus, they offer a 5th year MA/MS in many departments, including math and EE.

Quarters can be fast-paced, but ~25% of college are on it, including Dartmouth and Northwestern and Chicago, so it seems to work well for many students. The issue with REU’s/SURPS is that spring quarter goes thru early June so some REU;s have already started. That said, plenty of opportunity to remain on campus at either school working on research.

Stanford is a huge campus and spread out to get around. Many students have a bike or stay healthy by walking!

Kiddo shoudl reach out to both admissions offices and ask if they can put him in touch with a faculty member that does quantum research.

But if he loves Princeton…

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And Stanford is being hit hard too.

They’re also being investigated for antisemitism, having to explain or expunge all Chinese nationals doing research on campus (which is a significant # of their grad students) and vulnerable to all the same budget cuts due to shifts in NIH and NSF funding.

I feel somewhat equipped to weigh in here because I’m a Princeton undergrad and Stanford grad school alumna (who also worked at the Farm for a long time).

I think of Stanford as a fine place to be an undergrad (weather, resources, etc.) and a phenomenal place to be a grad student. I can’t imagine paying an extra $20K/year for the privilege of getting probably less faculty attention when you have Princeton as an alternative.

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My two cents is you are not really missing anything. I guess I would agree that a lot of your Stanford “cons” are not so much cons in the absolute sense, you are just comparing Stanford to Princeton in ways where they are both very good but maybe Princeton is a little better (given these particular measures). But even with that understanding, I think given what you and your kid value, Princeton would appear to be the right choice even before considering cost. And then the cost difference is a nice bonus!

Of course no harm in visiting Stanford and keeping an open mind. But also no need to second guess if it doesn’t change the decision. Sometimes the right choice is pretty obvious in the end, and it is actually kinda nice when that happens.

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A huge congrats! Assuming your family can comfortably manage the price differential, he has earned the right to choose. This is a case where two reasonable people could make two different choices.

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Two fantastic choices. Both are beautiful campuses IMO.

I live nearby the Stanford campus and my neighborhood has plenty of Stanford alums. In terms of the “business/entrepreneur focus”, I find that “conventional wisdom” to be true.

As for the weather, well, almost year round, I wear shorts, t-shirt and flip flops. It rarely gets too cold or too hot. And if your kid loves to run, there are some great trails to hit, especially along the Bay.

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The usual recommendation for pre-PhD math majors is that French, German, and/or Russian are useful languages for reading math research papers.

However, other languages may be more useful in other contexts.

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If your son has been on the East Coast all his life, and intends to live on the East Coast as an adult, going to CA for college could be a terrific experience. The major he is thinking about pretty much requires a graduate degree anyway. Finally, consider that Princeton is know for grade deflation, and Stanford is the opposite. Of course that $20K extra per year is not nothing, although I am surprised their financial aid packages varied so much given that both schools are need-blind. I think Stanford might be able to match if you inquired.

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Thank you! I obviously do not understand Cali weather differences and I didn’t realize that Stanford wasn’t ABET accredited for EE, which goes to show you how off the radar this option was. Will discuss that point with spouse, as well (who is in EE)

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Thank you for the feedback & ideas! All of my pros/cons are second hand, mostly, so 1st-person corrections are helpful.

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I think this is an important point and I recommend that you ask about this while comparing, if S gets on the list seriously. (My son chose P and loved it.)

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This is exactly the feedback we received from a family friend who teaches at Princeton and has two kids who attended Stanford as undergrads - thanks for adding to our understanding.

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ABET accreditation is specifically useful if one wants to go for a Professional Engineer license or take the patent exam. The PE license is mainly for being able to sign off on designs used by the general public, so it is mainly of importance to civil engineers. Electrical engineers doing work in power systems and the like may find PE licensing useful, although it is typically not an issue in the computer industry that probably attracts a lot of Stanford graduates.

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Thank you - I’ve been wondering about matching financial aid, too. It wouldn’t hurt to ask, if it comes to that.

Cornell (already declined) offered even less - we’d have had to pay $78K. We’d heard Princeton has the most generous definition of financial need, so ig we’re seeing that in action.

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The top 3 (Harvard, Yale and Princeton) do not want to lose any student over finaid, so they end up similar. (A key is how they treat home equity.). And it was my belief that Stanford didn’t want to lose students to those 3, so their aid was also compeititive. Definitely inquire nicely. (really like your school and program, and I could see myself thriving there, but finances are an issue for my family,…)

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What industry does your kid eventually want to work in? When deciding between two outstanding options it might be useful to think about life beyond college rather than the minute differences while going there. If interested in finance quant Princeton is probably the better pick but if interest in tech/VC etc then Stanford will set him up well.

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Definitely not a finance quant. Potentially academia but more likely industry. Not interested in entrepreneurship/business. TBH I’m unclear what their options are if a math major (beyond finance), and my gut says they’ll stay in EE, maybe end up at a research lab such as Lincoln Labs.

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Typical non-academic destinations would include finance, actuary, operations research, teaching math, cryptography, some areas of computing. Selection of upper level electives in math and related subjects may matter for such destinations.

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I hesitate to even mention this, but Math majors also tend to do well on the LSAT. And being the lawyer in the room most comfortable with math (often a low bar) can be useful.

On the other hand . . .

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