Princeton Profs Give Exclusively to Democrats

<p>From Fundingfather….
Quote:
“Since the war with Iraq ended, is it your impression that the US has or has not found Iraqi weapons of mass destruction?”</p>

<p>The answer is no.
By your interpretation of an ambiguous question the answer may well be “no” but another person taking a more precise view would (should) say “yes”.</p>

<p>Please explaing what you mean by “ambiguous question” and ask the question in a more precise way. Then explaing why the person taking a more precise view would (should) say “yes.”</p>

<p>Z–I want to say, “would ya reference it at him, then?” But this is beyond resuscitation. Later. Catcha on the flip side.</p>

<p>“I ask you again how a lay person (me) could determine who answered what from the data presented.”</p>

<p>As a general rule the polls that are covered as reliable polls by the established news organizations (including but not limited to Fox) are reliable. </p>

<p>It takes a lot of time, effort and study to get to the point of where a lay person can dig into the data (cross tabs) and make heads or tails of the information. In general the best way for a lay person to “get a feeling” about the credibility of a poll or poll question to read polls on the same subject from several sources. This link will help you some…… <a href=“http://www.ncpp.org/?q=node/4[/url]”>http://www.ncpp.org/?q=node/4&lt;/a&gt;.....&lt;/p&gt;

<p>However none of this helps you with your specific question about the specific poll question. That being the case I suggest you contact the organization who conduced the poll and ask them to respond to your concerns. I have done this many times in the past and almost always have been please with the efforts the polling organization went to help me understand their work.</p>

<p>“personal attacks now…”</p>

<p>No, not a personal attack … just a hypothesis based on an observation.</p>

<p>“However none of this helps you with your specific question about the specific poll question. That being the case I suggest you contact the organization who conduced the poll and ask them to respond to your concerns. I have done this many times in the past and almost always have been please with the efforts the polling organization went to help me understand their work.”</p>

<p>Wow. A helpful, informative and courteous post from Tommybill to me. Will wonders never cease? Thank you VERY much. Really. I appreciate the information and the tone. I will review the link you posted and expect to learn from it. Very kind of you.</p>

<p>A very clear hypothesis. :)</p>

<p>“A helpful, informative and courteous post from Tommybill to me. Will wonders never cease?”</p>

<p>I have always appreciated the graceful way you pay people compliments.</p>

<p>“I have always appreciated the graceful way you pay people compliments.”</p>

<p>Hey, it was an honest expression of my thoughts upon reading the post.</p>

<p>By the way, there is going to be a segment about Iraqi WMD on 60 Minutes this weekend. No idea what it will say, but I did want to make mention of it.</p>

<p>Hey, if you wanna see some real (and illegal) WMD stockpiles, and even some places where new ones are being produced, ya’ll come up to my state, and we’ll show you a good time. Maybe you can even take some home with ya as souvenirs!</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.hanfordwatch.org/[/url]”>http://www.hanfordwatch.org/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Oh, we got better than Hanford! We got real chemical weapons, and lots of nice, little government-supported biolabs whose work is very neatly “classified”. Your best friend could work for one, and if you ask him what he does at work, he’ll say, “things”. ;)</p>

<p>I admire Fundingfather’s exceeding strong sense of self-confidence. With regard to the survey question on WMD in Iraq, because of his self-confidence FF is able to declare professionals as incompetent and give us an example of how he would have written a better survey question. In the same thread he chastises another poster for imprecise use of the written word implying that he is precise in his own writing. </p>

<p>The phrasing of the question FF has concerns about is “Since the war with Iraq ended, is it your impression that the US has or has not found Iraqi weapons of mass destruction?” What follows is the way FF says the question should have been written, “Since the war with Iraq ended, is it your impression that the US has or has not found Iraqi weapons of mass destruction of the order of magnitude that the intelligence community projected that there would be?” FF then says had the question been written the way he suggested “The answer to that would be an unambiguous “No”.”</p>

<p>I have three concerns/questions, the first concerns is the precision of the wording, the second concerns the goal or why the question is being ask, and the third is FF suggested wording confusing?</p>

<p>1) In his wording of the question why did FF ask for an impression if he wanted an unambiguous answer. Was his wording of the question imprecise?</p>

<p>2) Was the goal of the question as ask in the survey to get an unambiguous answer or impression of what people thought? If the goal was an unambiguous answer why would the people conducting the survey ask for an impression.</p>

<p>3) Should possibility confusing terms like “order of magnitude” and “intelligence community projected” be used as part of a question in a public survey?</p>

<p>“intelligence community” is an oxymoron. After the U.S. kicked out the weapons inspectors in 1998 (after failing to infiltrate them with CIA agents) and after the weapons inspectors refused to confirm U.S. claims, the so-called “intelligence community” relied on a single source - “Curveball” - who spun them a good story for money. When the weapons inspectors went back in in 2002, they still refused to confirm U.S. claims. So Colin Powell went to the U.N. with a bunch lies and pictures, including those of a KURDISH military outpost (discovered within 48 hours by an amateur photograph) and bunch of ice cream trucks, and the world shook. </p>

<p>Let’s get away from the pretense that there was any operating “intelligence”. They simply made it up.</p>

<p>tommybill, ff is full of ****. </p>

<p>I hope that is not too ambiguous. :)</p>

<p>dstark - I think that’s unfair. FF cited his source and his reasoning, and I thinks his position is educational. Consider: We invaded Iraq in 2003, ran around looking for the touted WMD’s, and came up with - nothing. Since the invasion was justified by the suppposed threat of those WMDs (I can see lots of Fox viewers right now shaking their heads and saying, "No that’s not right, it was something else, right? I just can’t remember exactly what…) the lack of same created a serious cognitive dissonance among the most heavily propagandized segment of society. So, three years later, a Republican Congressman asks John Negroponte to declassify a short summary of the abandoned pre-Gulf War chemical munitions which had been found. Now, the stuff was over a decade old, but still contained “degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent.” About the scariest thing they could say about it was:

Okay - not exactly significant, or in any way relevant to the purported reason for Gulf War 2, but Hey! It’s chemical stuff! Scary! Terrorists! 9/11!! And, uh… 9/11!!</p>

<p>So two Republican politicians served it up. Fox News touted it. FF repeated it. And more misinformation is born and spread. It’s kind of like a case study in how Americans can become convinced of things which aren’t true.</p>

<p>Kluge, nice post.</p>

<p>FF is very educational.</p>

<p>Perhaps this article from the Chicago Tribune, coupled with Fundingfather’s exceeding strong sense of self-confidence will help explain how and why he is able to come to such strong positions in his thinking. If we read what Kluge had to say about FF along with this article we may get a better understanding of the value of the things FF has to say. </p>

<p>I am still hopeful that FF will respond to my post above, I am interested to read his thinking on it. </p>

<p>I was not able to find a link to this article so I have cut and copied it from my files. In order to not run afoul of the CC copywrite rules I have edited it. Anyone who wants to read the full article just send me a private e-mail and I will send the full article. </p>

<p>Being conservative, liberal or in-between is wired in the brain, new study suggests</p>

<p>By Judy Peres, Tribune staff reporter
September 10, 2007</p>

<p>The differences between liberals and conservatives may run deeper than how they feel about welfare reform or the progress of the Iraq war: Researchers reported Sunday that their brains may actually work differently.</p>

<p>In a study likely to raise the hackles of some conservatives, psychologist David Amodio and others found that a specific region of the brain’s cortex is more sensitive in people who consider themselves liberals than in self-declared conservatives.</p>

<p>The brain region in question helps people shift gears when their usual response would be inappropriate, supporting the notion that liberals are more flexible in their thinking.</p>

<p>“Say you drive home from work the same way every day, but one day there’s a detour and you need to override your autopilot,” said Amodio, a professor at New York University. “Most people function just fine. But there’s a little variability in how sensitive people are to the cue that they need to change their current course.”</p>

<p>That “cue” is processed in a part of the brain known as the anterior cingulate cortex, and Amodio was able to monitor its electrical activity by hooking his subjects up to electroencephalographs (EEGs) while they performed laboratory tests.</p>

<p>Unflattering traits</p>

<p>The work grew out of decades of previous research suggesting that political orientation is linked to certain personality traits or styles of thinking. A review of that research published in 2003 found that conservatives tend to be more rigid and closed-minded, less tolerant of ambiguity and less open to new experiences.</p>

<p>Some of the traits associated with right-wingers in that review were decidedly unflattering, including fear, aggression, tolerance of inequality and lack of complexity in their thinking. That – along with the fact that it lumped Ronald Reagan and other political conservatives in with Adolf Hitler – evoked outrage from conservative pundits.</p>

<p>John Jost, an author of both the review and the current study, was prompted to defend the research in an opinion piece published in The Washington Post.</p>

<p>“It’s wrong to conclude that our results provide only bad news for conservatives,” he wrote on Aug. 28, 2003. “True, we find some support for the traditional ‘rigidity-of-the-right’ hypothesis, but it is also true that liberals could be characterized on the basis of our overall profile as relatively disorganized, indecisive and perhaps overly drawn to ambiguity.”</p>

<p>In the current study, Amodio and his colleagues recruited 43 college students for a simple experiment. The subjects reported their political attitudes confidentially on a scale from -5 (extremely liberal) to +5 (extremely conservative). Then they completed a computer test called “Go/No-Go” while an EEG measured their brain activity.</p>

<p>Subjects were told to press a button (“Go”) each time the computer flashed the letter “M,” but not when a “W” was displayed. Each stimulus-response set had to be completed within half a second.</p>

<p>Testing responses</p>

<p>Amodio said the “Go” stimulus came up 400 out of 500 times, so “they’re sitting there getting in the habit of pressing this button. But 20 percent of the time, the ‘No Go’ stimulus comes up – it’s unexpected – and they’re supposed to do nothing. We can see how accurate people are at withholding the habitual response.”</p>

<p>Subjects who rated themselves more liberal had higher scores for accuracy, Amodio said.</p>

<p>But more importantly, they also showed stronger electrical activity when the “No Go” cues were presented, indicating that more neurons were firing.</p>

<p>Linda Skitka, a professor of psychology at the University of Illinois at Chicago, said it’s possible that Amodio’s liberals appeared more flexible than his conservatives because the population was skewed.</p>

<p>“We’re not a very liberal country,” she said. “We’re more likely to find extreme conservatives in the U.S. than extreme liberals.”</p>

<p>Skitka said there’s ample evidence that ideologues on the far left can also be uptight.</p>

<p>“Extreme conservatives could be really rigid,” she said. “Moderates should be pretty flexible. But if we go all the way to the left, they may look a lot like the extreme right – rigid in their ideas.”</p>

<p>Mark Pollock, associate professor of communication at Loyola University Chicago, said the Amodio study “provides scientific evidence for conclusions people [studying political rhetoric] have reached previously.”</p>

<p>Pollock saw another benefit to Amodio’s findings: If political attitudes are tied to neurophysiology, he said, “it would make bashing conservatives – or liberals – pointless. It’s not as if people are making a choice to see the world this way or that way. It’s how they’re built.”</p>

<p>"Pollock saw another benefit to Amodio’s findings: If political attitudes are tied to neurophysiology, he said, “it would make bashing conservatives – or liberals – pointless. It’s not as if people are making a choice to see the world this way or that way. It’s how they’re built.”</p>

<p>So tommybill, you don’t really think ff is going to change his mind?</p>

<p>DS ask me……“So tommybill, you don’t really think ff is going to change his mind?”</p>

<p>It is more than that, according to this finding of this study he is not likely to change his mind because of the way his brain works. This study shows that conservatives’ brains don’t deal with conflicting information as well as other peoples brains do. Their brains just don’t work that way. </p>

<p>That being the case for FF to change his mind on an issue he has a preconceived notation about would require an active effort on his part to overcome his brains natural tendency. With Fundingfather’s exceeding strong sense of self-confidence it is doubtfully that it would ever occur to him to think about his preconceived notations, even in light of new information. His brain doesn’t accept new and conflicting information and he is not inclined to question any previous thinking of his own. </p>

<p>So it is highly unlikely that FF will change his mind, especially now that his thinking on the subject has been challenged.</p>

<p>Well, I must have overcome my natural tendencies because I have been a democrat, a republican and an independent. :)</p>