@jumbletumbles, You raise an interesting question regarding the efficacy of the holistic approach. I am a parent and someone who does lots of entry level hiring, so I will offer an analogy.
Admitting people to Princeton is a lot like finding 1 person to fill a job for which you have received 20 applications. How do you make your decision on who to interview and ultimately hire? You could sort through the resumes and seek the individual who went to the best school and got the best grades and held a leadership position in college. You would probably be left with a strong candidate, but maybe not the strongest for what you are looking for.
My personal philosophy is to find those who did well regardless of the school they attended - where someone was accepted or could afford to go 4 years ago has little bearing on who that person is today. Then, I look at their course of study - do they have an interest and the skill set to perform the job I have open. Then I look at their EC’s - were they involved meaningfully in something larger than themselves.
After doing that, I probably have 8 out of 20 applicants of interest. Now…here comes my secret weapon to find great employees…I look at their employment history. If someone has had a job where they have been promoted - even if it is from night burger flipper to day burger flipper - they move to the top of my list. Being promoted tells me that someone else thought enough of the applicant to move them into a greater roll. It is a market signal to me that they show up on time and they do good work. Then I go to interviews with that applicant as my initial target. In a sense, I use a holistic approach.
My point is, there are many people who can do level Princeton work. Not everyone comes from the same place and has had the same opportunities. Simply judging people on their scores does not yield the best overall admits.
For example (and here I will reveal my lack of objectivity), my daughter suffered from Lyme Disease during her 1st and 2nd years in HS. Her grades are not perfect because some days she could not finish the school day, much less do homework or study for tests. Should that experience preclude her from applying to Princeton? Of course not. But, she has a steeper slope to climb to show the admissions folks she is up to the challenge. BTW, to my daughter’s credit, she does not mention Lyme anywhere in her application. She has enough awesomeness and did not want to play the victim.
I recognize that this seems unfair to the 3.9+ unweighted GPA with a 2300+ SAT candidate, but holistic approaches do tend to work.
@NedMart I completely agree with what you said. I hadn’t meant for my post to come across as blasting holistic policies, if it did.
My thoughts are revolving around just the fact that they ‘talk’ about holistic polices, but their ‘actions’ (calling GCs for statistical data vs more personal/personality insight) appear to be incongruous.
I’m sure there are several reasons that would explain what seems to be a disconnect between words vs actions. At first glance though, it does seem odd.
I got a 35 act and 2310 SAT. I only sent the ACT scores. Should I have sent my SAT scores also? Does Princeton maybe look down on ACT, or they don’t treat a 35 as a 2330.
@jumbletumbles Princeton’s environment is not at all cut throat according to my now senior son, his friends, and many current and previous students here on CC. It’s surprisingly collaborative - even when grade deflation was an issue! I’m sure there are self centred people on campus but they are in the minority from what I understand.
@PorkyPig12 I do think it will help, but maybe not as much as you think it does. It’s all about context. For example, if my parents were Hispanic, it would be expected of me to be fluent in Spanish. Does that make sense?
@PorkyPig12, I believe taking a language through the AP level would be considered favorably, as long as it is not a language you grew up with. So if your family speaks French in the home and you are in French 6, I am not sure it does much for you. Of course what you speak in your home is your business unless you reference it somewhere else in the application.
idk… I am fluent in four - English + 1 native + 1 school subject + 1 self-acquired. Despite the SAT subject tests, I only have only done those official national tests that allow you to study in university or sth ( for example, DELE for Spanish, HSK for Chinese, DELF for French, JLPT for Japanese, TOEFL for English etc.). I cannot do those AP tests cuz language AP tests are not offered in B.C. Oh well, I hope that language proficiency still serves as a plus factor for everyone here!!!
@52balletvieta I would hesitate to try to put a definition to stellar but you might consider - competitive at the state level or higher, having achieved a top level of accomplishment in the art etc. In other words, something that shines beyond being the best at your high school.
@franticmanatee I doubt that a less-than-perfect arts supplement will hurt your application - it just won’t help. The only way I can see it hurting your application is if it contradicts something you stated in your application (ie - you said you won a state level competition but your arts supplement is no better than an average high school talent show).
Almost exactly 48 hours left! Time’s flying by yet slowly trekking forward…
Again, I think the language issue is all about context, like others have mentioned. It really depends on how you used that on your application, if you included it in an essay, etc etc. ~:>
@Cantiger My ballet school doesn’t compete in regional or national competitions, but I recently went to World Ballet Competition Finals independently. Do you think they would look down at the fact that it’s only one competition? I don’t think, without extensive information and researching, that my school is for preparing future professional dancers and not just a “hobby” dance studio, which worries me…
@jumbletumbles I feel like asking the GCs about personalities of students would be really subjective. Obviously unless you have a mean spirited GC she/he will say great things about you regardless of the situation. Test scores and transcripts are more objective and are more indicative of how a student will fare in college, albeit less “holistic.” But then again the system is only holistic in the sense that everyone has amazing stats so the only way to differentiate students and accept only a handful of students from a great batch of applications.
How will the adcoms look at the fact that I danced for the first two years of high school but not last year or this year? (Ugh I hate that I’m considering these things so late). ~:>