<p>Re: jym626 post #74
"I suspect you know this, but your wife needs not to starve herself. She needs to eat throughout the day. "</p>
<p>Yes, thank you. It’s actually just as hard to get her to eat! Can you imagine? Our personal struggle is not to get my wife to eat less, but sometimes just to eat so that what you mentioned won’t happen! Talk about an incongruous struggle!</p>
<p>^agree. On top of it, they have very clean arteries, not clogged. At least that is what my husband told me why he needs to drink lots of red wine.:)</p>
<p>Alumother: I would absolutely gain weight on the diet you describe. I gain weight on weightwatchers. I understand that those of you who are thin and “watch what you eat” think you understand and feel virtuous. This would be like my taking credit for my genetic make-up which has endowed me with a phdenomenal memory and extremely high I.Q. (My obese dad had a 180 I.Q.) Yes, I studued and did all my work in school, but so did most of my classmates who couldn’t begin to produce the results I did. Was I virtuous or lucky? I’d say lucky.</p>
<p>About my childhood. My mom (who married an overweight man and resented him for it) was extremely thin and resented my dad. I started out extremely thin, but due to her cigarette smoking developed so many respiratory infections that I needed a tonsellectomy, and I developed asthma. After my tonsellectomy at 3 I starting gaining weight. My very looks conscious mom was appalled. I assure you I did NOT abuse food. Brother got chocolate milk, I got disgusting powdered skim milk (I poured down the sink.) Brother had boxes of ring dings, yodels, ice cream etc., whereas I was strictly forbidden to eat any of these things (at 4 and 5 years old.)</p>
<p>Many of the conclusions on this thread are just not accurate, and posters seem to want to go to great lengths to defend an erroneous point of view.</p>
<p>BTW: Although most of my classes involve so much laughing sometimes teachers next door pop their heads in, I find nothing amusing about the pun “massive evidence.”</p>
<p>Re: jym626 Post #79
“But there are plenty of alcoholics, mark, who are not obese.”</p>
<p>Indeed. So I guess there are no easy answers and no sweeping generalities that are actually true in reality.</p>
<p>MarkPhotog,</p>
<p>I apologize if my statements so offended you due to your wife’s condition. But she is most certainly one of the exceptions to the rule.</p>
<p>I have lived intimately with obesity. As I said, both my H was and my brother is obese, and I witnessed their eating habits, the excessive reality of which was in direct conflict with their expressed impressions of them. </p>
<p>Mini complained about our inability to consume boxed cereals, bread products or sausage for breakfast due to corn syrup contents. But we should not be eating any of those products for breakfast (or any meal) anyway. Rather, try half a cup of whole grains with low fat milk and fresh fruit (or equivalent).</p>
<p>I am quite fit, but believe me I work VERY hard at staying this way. Staying slim is NOT easy for me by any means. I think about every spoonful of food I put in my mouth. Like your wife, I eat small portions and I don’t lose weight, but I exercise alot so that I do not gain any. Most Americans are just not willing to make their health/fitness a priority. Granted everyone has stresses and demands on their lives, but almost anyone who really wants to make a change in their fitness/weight CAN do so.</p>
<p>I don’t know which I find more offensive: the sanctimonious pronouncements about lack of “self-control” causing obesity, or the wholesale vilification of food stamp recipients. The weekly food stamp budget is $21. Recently, some members of Congress took the “food stamp challenge” and tried to live on that food budget. Read about some of the results here: <a href=“http://foodstampchallenge.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/05/lawmakers_find_.html[/url]”>http://foodstampchallenge.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/05/lawmakers_find_.html</a> Yes, nutritional education and awareness might help some, but people in circumstances that seem hopeless are not always focused on the long-term. As for weight issues, Hanna you are wrong if you think “just 30 pounds” is not enough to put you into the “obese” category, especially if you are an average-height or smaller female. Check out the numerous BMI calculators on the CDC website or elsewhere. I did not have weight problems most of my life, but when I was 39 I gave birth to S2 and in that same year lost my mother, who lived with us, to breast cancer. I think the stress, pregnancy etc. permanently altered my metabolism. My eating habits, which did not include anything resembling McDonald’s or junk food (more like whole grains, fruits, no soda, no sweetened cereal, etc.) did not change and my exercise level did not change, but my weight sure did, almost before I even realized it was happening. Ever since then (18 years) it is ony through the sheerest exercise of self-discipline that I can avoid outright obesity (according to the CDC definitions). Like Garland, I have to take extreme measures just to remain “only” 30 pounds or so overweight. I make those efforts because I know the health impacts of being overweight. And I am intelligent, well-educated, not poor, and have a very supportive family. Many overweight people have none of those advantages. I am the only one in my office who goes to the going-away, birthday, etc. celebrations and never touches a morsel of the cakes and desserts. I avoid eating lunch with co-workers because I am afraid it will be hard to stick to my diet or to hang around without my stomach growling while they are still eating long after I have finished my piece of fruit and non-fat yogurt. I put off invitations to dinner at restaurants unless I can check out the menu and the calorie/fat content of the dishes on-line first, and then usually decide to opt out. And I have learned that the thin people who don’t have to worry about what they eat are the first ones to put you on the spot and say, “what, how come you aren’t eating?” as they try to push a brownie or a cookie at you.</p>
<p>Re: mythmom Post #80
“Was I virtuous or lucky? I’d say lucky.”</p>
<p>I’d say VERY lucky. You sound like an incredible person. It would be a privilege to get to know you; and I guarantee I would see more than some superficial aspect like your weight.</p>
<p>dmd, I can appreciate how frustrated that must be for you! Two things occur to me. First, your exercise may not be intense enough to be revving up your metabolism. You seem to be walking a good distance and for enough time (assuming it takes you an hour to go 4-5 miles), but this is a little like driving your car at 40 miles an hour (saves energy). If you could mix in some high-intensity exercise, I think you might see a difference. </p>
<p>Second, the calories you are eating might be just right to keep you at your current weight (which is not what you want, I take it) but what if you changed the fat/protein/carb ratio? I’m not sure what you know or don’t know about carbs and simple sugars, but they affect the way fat is stored or used. So one calorie is not the same as another, even though they theoretically have the same potential for energy. </p>
<p>Here is a site that helped me. It’s by a former UC prof who is writing a book on Evolutionary Fitness. I do not buy into everything he says, but a lot of what he espouses makes intuitive and scientific sense to me, and the information on this blog does help me with food and exercise choices. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.arthurdevany.com%5B/url%5D”>http://www.arthurdevany.com</a></p>
<p>Re: Bay #85 "I am quite fit, but believe me I work VERY hard at staying this way. Staying slim is NOT easy for me by any means. "</p>
<p>Yes. I warrant that it is not easy for ANYONE who does not have the particular metabolism for automatic health or the time/inclination for “automatic” fitness. I know, because I lost the perfect health that I had because I didn’t (couldn’t/wouldn’t) spend the 15 minutes a day it would have taken while my kids were babies and henceforth. I got out of the habit. And it is a tremendous effort to either get back in the habit of exercise or healthy food. The point is, it might be top priority for some people and they can manage it or it might be too stressful in a stressful lifestyle to even start. (No, actually) the point is that we really shouldn’t judge people for what they can or cannot achieve.</p>
<p>It seems like it would be relatively easy to study different people in a clinical test and make sure that they eat the same foods in the same amounts and do the same amount of exercise to see if their weight gain/loss varies significantly. Does anyone know if this has been done and what the results were?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No Mark, that is a cop-out! Start your healthy eating and exercise tomorrow, or better yet, this minute!! That’s the problem many of us have with obese people who will not even try because it is “just too hard!” Well, waaah to that! Those people absolutely should be judged for refusing to make the effort. It is VERY hard for most of us, even those who are slim. </p>
<p>I find it incredibly irksome when overweight people claim that we who are fit are on some sort of “high horse” or “self-righteous” because we HAVE made our health a priority in our lives. Or “oh its just EASY for you, but its so HARD for me.” Well, guess what, it is NOT easy but most people CAN actually do it if they try.</p>
<p>Good luck.</p>
<p>I play squash two to three times a week (800 calories a pop), am on the treadmill two or three other days (300+ calories each), lift weights. My diet is good to begin with. Lots of fruits and veggies. </p>
<p>Since I began this regimen 10 months ago, I gained three pounds. The way I look at it, I earned every one of them. </p>
<p>But all that’s anecdote, the plural of which is not evidence. Most of the diet talk is about how much, not what kind. We really can date the obesity epidemic, and it didn’t have anything to do with Americans all of a sudden deciding to eat more, and we can actually watch it unfold in other countries. Our bodies are, on a population-wide basis, intolerant of the corporate decision of what we should put into them.</p>
<p>Bay,You know I can do it “if I try” so you know I must not be doing it, because I don’t look like you. That’s the definition of self-righteous, right there. as I have said, all the work I put in, which I can guarantee is as much as you do, keeps me at 30 pounds overweight. Because I work so hard at exercise and eating right, and yet know that if you look at me, you will judge me, I know better than to judge the next guy.</p>
<p>Mini,</p>
<p>Gaining 3 pounds does not mean you are not fit. Lifting weights adds muscle mass. Increasing your speed on the treadmill can help if you need to lose pounds.</p>
<p>Garland,</p>
<p>If you are working hard and making your health and fitness a priority in your life, then you must be healthy and fit the way you are.</p>
<p>"Mini,</p>
<p>Gaining 3 pounds does not mean you are not fit. Lifting weights adds muscle mass. Increasing your speed on the treadmill can help if you need to lose pounds."</p>
<p>I am already expending an extra 3,500 calories a week. The weights I lift at this point are just “toning”. </p>
<p>At any rate, at my club, there is a room for “those people”. You know the ones. The men have Schwarzeneggers for pecs, and large tree-limbs for arms, and six packs, and 33" waists. The women (with the exception of the big weightlifters) look like Debbie Austen clones.</p>
<p>Me? Chicken chest, twigs, and keg. Then I began to think about my family tree. Father and mother. Brother. All the grandparents. Uncles, aunts, nieces, nephews, as far as memory still holds. </p>
<p>There is not a single one who looks like they could ever set foot in the room for “those people”. Different species.</p>
<p>Mini – You are right. Different species…sort of. </p>
<p>There are different body types, different metabolisms, different diets. What works for one will be an utter failure for another. There have been huge long-term studies done on nurses which show conclusively that no one style of eating works for everyone. Just today a study was released showing that eating a diet rich in fruits and veggies has no effect on the return of breast cancer, which is rather counter-intuitive. There’s also a study showing that a virus may prove to be the reason many overweight, even obese, people have healthy blood pressure and cholesterol levels despite their weight (the virus comes from chickens…look it up.) The truth is that no two people react the same way to intake – there are levels of commonality but the difference are there, if subtle. You and I might eat exactly the same food and do the same workouts for six weeks as the ‘skinny’ people and would or would not lose depending on our own body’s chemistry. (Frankly, I’d lose my mind if I had to spend every waking second judging myself against my food. A Wheat Thin doesn’t create virtue anymore than an Oreo creates vice.) </p>
<p>As for the way people used to eat versus today…yes, they worked harder for their food/heat/water, etc. They also had much shorter life expectancies. And plenty of people…even in the good ol’ days…were obese. Grover Cleveland or William Taft ring a bell? How 'bout Sophie Tucker or Lillian Russell? Don’t generalize about the past. They were just as multifarious as we are.</p>
<p>
Absolutely. The review I cited earlier cites a 1990 study ([Pubmed](<a href=“http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?holding=npg&cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2336074&dopt=Abstract]Pubmed[/url]”>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?holding=npg&cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2336074&dopt=Abstract)</a>) which systematically overfed 12 pairs of identical twins for 100 days.</p>
<p>The review says
It’s difficult at this point to pinpoint the exact basis for small metabolic differences between people. As with other research topics in genetics, it’s much easier to tackle rare familial obesity syndromes first, since those are often really obvious and due to mutations in only one gene – scientists usually go after the the hay in the needlestack before deciding to go after the needle in the haystack. :)</p>
<p>This all works, and all makes sense…except that the beginning of the so-called obesity epidemic is actually datable. It is closer to being able to date when, for example, folks began to become addicted to methamphetamine (i.e. when meth entered the community of course), than it is to a long, slow build up related to what it was in the “old days” and what it is now.</p>
<p>And we are seeing the same in other cultures as well. We can actually track a specific “food event” and the changes in body mass.</p>
<p>Re: Bay #91 “No Mark, that is a cop-out! Start your healthy eating and exercise tomorrow, or better yet, this minute!! That’s the problem many of us have with obese people who will not even try because it is “just too hard!” Well, waaah to that! Those people absolutely should be judged for refusing to make the effort. It is VERY hard for most of us, even those who are slim.”</p>
<p>Hoo boy. and uh huh. And I think you didn’t quite get what I posted. I said that I had perfect health and fitness when I did 2 hours of yoga every day and ate a diet where one slice of pizza a year and maybe one bagel were the exceptions to my diet. Yes, I felt great. And it was at a time in my life when I also had no pressure or stress or kids or house to take care of. Never mind a business. Now? fuhgetaboutit! No way do I have time for such a regimen. Less? Maybe. Do I need some? sure. Am I going to do it? I hope so. Basically, how DARE you suggest to me that I’m copping out because what was easy for me years ago just doesn’t fit in the way it used to. That’s what this whole thread is about. How DARE you accuse me of “copping out” when you don’t know me or my lifestyle or the stress in my life or what is important to me now.</p>
<p>I DO basically have a healthy diet. I DO need to exercise. But that is none of your business and you CERTAINLY have no right to judge me or my lifestyle! I AM someone who is affected by diet and exercise. The extra 30 lbs on me IS upsetting to me (especially considering the pride I took in being perfectly fit.) In my case, I no longer am perfectly fit not because my metabolism won’t allow me to or because of genetics, but rather because of other factors in my life which keep me from being as healthy as I would like. This is none of your business and certainly does not give you the right to judge me on why I’m 30lbs overweight! How DARE you think that you have that right or that you are justified in any way to think that you know what I need in my life? You really think that you have the right to insult me the way that you did?</p>