<p>While reading the recent posts on the Jena 6 thread, which are becoming contentious,
I wondered if people had an interest in the Palestinian situation. This week I met
two Jewish people, in different circumstances, who were strongly pro-Palestinian,
as well as anti-Israeli. I was shocked, and some of the Jena 6 posts had a
similar slant. To these Jewish people, this was going to be a big issue in their
decision making process in the next election. What do others think about
this issue?</p>
<p>If you mean you met some Jewish people who disagree with any current policy of the Israeli government, that is normal and natural. Many ardent Zionists disagree with specific policies from time to time, since the founding of the modern State of Israel in 1948. The key is that they are pro-Israel all the while, because they defend the right of the State of Israel to exist and not be “wiped off the map.” </p>
<p>I can discuss a bit about what Jewish people do, as I’m one and have relatives who live in Israel, a grandfather who fought under General Allenby in 1917 (try Wiki) in the Jewish Legion. </p>
<p>I’m very pro-Israel and admire her many efforts for peace, repeatedly, with the Palestineans. Also understand the frustrations when peace has been rejected.</p>
<p>I’ve never learned much new from reading about Israel on CC. I follow several websites, including JTA and those translated from Arab media into English, trying to keep up with a complex situation. I don’t rely on CNN, Fox or any exclusively American stations, althought they are helpful. </p>
<p>I’ve visited Israel several times and it’s a beautiful country with great people. Israelis include people of every faith and color. A lot of the inventions you use every day were invented by Israelis, along with astonishing discoveries in medicine and science.</p>
<p>I hope that helps answer your question. What IS your question? ;)</p>
<p>No, just as the title says, not what you state, paying three. What you describe is what I am used to hearing. These were strongly anti-Israeli and strongly pro-Palestinian.</p>
<p>Sorry, post cross. My question is specifically, “Are people anti-Israeli and pro-Palestinian, either Jewish or non-Jewish, and is this a big issue for you in the next election?”</p>
<p>Are people strong Palestinian sympathizers?</p>
<p>It’s a free country and Jews can take on any part of the political debate they choose. Including some who are poorly informed when they meet professors from Middle East chairs – professorships funded by the Saudis-- who teach university courses in NearEast Studies on American campuses. Anything is possible. </p>
<p>It sounds as though you were surprised! Most Jews are supportive of Israel, in one degree or another. But not all. It’s not a monolithic culture. Does that help?</p>
<p>Ah!@ We keep cross-posting.</p>
<p>I can only speak for myself. I always make my decisions in American elections based upon the security of America, progressive (liberal) domestic policies, and a compelling concern to support Israel. I usually can find a candidate who accomplishes all 3. </p>
<p>Are you asking me which is my primary loyalty–to America or Israel? I’ve never found a conflict between these two, since the only democracy in the Middle East is by definition essential to American security. Proud American, Proud Jew. No conflict for me, whatsoever. I speak only for me.</p>
<p>And here is the way in which you might call me a “Palestinean sympathizer.” I am sympathetic to any human being whose leadership does nothing to help them economically, steals from them, is brutal and repressive to journalists, and smashes the remains of settlements rather than uses them to begin an economic recovery.
I feel sorry for Palestinean people because their leadership is terribly corrupt.</p>
<p>In the Jena 6 discussion there are AA who don’t see the racial discrimination in the same way as the majority. I found that surprising and similar to Jews being strongly anti-Israeli.</p>
<p>I am wondering how widespread this sentiment is.</p>
<p>Most Jews are NOT “strongly anti-Israeli.” Many Jews have many opinions about what Israel should do, but at the end of the day support Israel. You met two who didn’t, I guess.</p>
<p>Paying3tuitions, I suspect another cross post.</p>
<p>Yes, what you express, exactly, is what I am used to hearing.</p>
<p>What I heard this week was different.</p>
<p>Would you like to share exactly what you heard?</p>
<p>I am interested in Jewish and non-Jewish views.</p>
<p>Since I don’t know every Jewish person in the United States, I can’t assume your position and my position
is as widely held as you think.</p>
<p>It sounds as though it shook you up to hear two Jewish people speaking against Israel.</p>
<p>Paying-3-Tuition, no, not more generally than what I’ve already stated. I suspect people are familiar with the situation. My interest isn’t to influence in either direction.</p>
<p>So, are you interested in taking a kind of opinion sample, a poll of CC readers?</p>
<p>Because, if you simply want to know if the two Jewish people (who spoke against Israel) that you met this week were typical of the American Jewish community, I’m saying with confidence that they aren’t. There’s is a minority opinion, as evidenced by national Jewish organizations== charitable, religious and political== one after the other, supportive of Israel. </p>
<p>A CC opinion poll on Israel? .that’s another matter altogether.</p>
<p>I very much appreciate your responses P3T. </p>
<p>I very much understand your viewpoint and agree.</p>
<p>I am wondering if there are others.</p>
<p>Thanks for your replies.</p>
<p>Depends which Jewish people. The Satmar Hasidim, the second largest Hasidic sect in the United States (140,000 here, and who also have a reasonably large community in Israel), are strongly opposed to the existence of the state Israel, and always have been, on religious grounds:</p>
<p>"Although it was certainly not the only reason for his opinion, one of the core citations from classical Judaic sources cited by Teitelbaum for his opposition to modern Zionism was that of the Three Oaths. This important teaching is from the Talmud in tractate Ketubot 111a, which discusses a passage from the Song of Songs in the Tanakh (Hebrew Bible) in which God made the Israelites promise “to wait for Him before arousing his love”:</p>
<pre><code>“King Solomon in Song of Songs thrice adjured the ‘daughters of Jerusalem’ not to arouse or bestir the love until it is ready.’ The Talmud explains that we are bound by three strong oaths not to ascend to the Holy Land as a group using force, not to rebel against the governments of countries in which we live, and not by our sins, to prolong the coming of moshiach; as is written in Tractate Kesubos 111a” (from Wikipedia)
</code></pre>
<p>But they are far from being “pro-Palestinian”. And most certainly, unless I am mistaken, there has never been a member of the Satmar community on this list.</p>
<p>There are many Jewish folks I know who believe that to be “Pro-Israel” IS to be “Pro-Palestinian”. God, if She exists, can testify that neither people have had a really good night’s sleep in 40 years or more, and doing without sleep for so long makes people act a little crazy.</p>
<p>^^interesting hypothesis. I have always thought it is because they both get too much sun.</p>