<p>I wouldn’t have an issue with the boyfriend expressing his PREFERENCE that they attend his church or raise any children they might have in his church. </p>
<p>What irritates me is (from what we are presented the way I read it) the dictatorial and inflexible position about what church they would attend. Sort of “this is the end of the discussion because I said so”. I hope I’m reading it wrong. Because if I’m not, if he’s inflexible on this, what else will he attempt to dictate should the two marry?</p>
<p>Everything is magnified in marriage—all the glitches and differences. IMO, it adds a lot of extra dimensions, often difficult, for two people of different backgrounds (and these can be economic, religious, cultural or ethnic) to have a compatible marriage. It isn’t to say it can’t be done, and it often is, but from my own experience of a mixed marriage, and that of SOOOOO many people I know, the more compatible backgrounds are often easier to blend.</p>
<p>I would also advise her to get to know his family and to learn very clearly what the family dynamics are. Religions that are very dogmatic are often dogmatic about a lot of issues like the role of women/men, higher education, standards of dress, smoking/drinking, etc. Does his family socialize with anyone outside their church and family? How do they treat family members who do not adhere strictly to the faith? </p>
<p>Since the D asked for input, she is obviously looking for answers to issues that are already troubling her. I guess the best a parent can do is to help lead her to those answers.</p>
<p>If you can find a copy of the book The Honeymoon’s Over, I highly recommend she read the essay “Shifting the Midline” by Elissa Minor Rust.</p>
<p>Rust’s story is not an exact parallel, as she and her husband grew up together in the Mormon church. However, she describes in a moving way how her marriage and family are affected when she decides she can no longer remain a Mormon.</p>
<p>PM me if you’d like me to photocopy it and mail it to you.</p>
<p>When people are young many are searching for their identity. I had a cousin, Jewish, who joined a group called Children of God. (a Christian sect…not as in Lutheran vs. Episcopalian). Uncomfortable in his own skin he went to a group that his parents had to kidnap him from, a commune and have him deprogrammed. Lest anyone “flame” me by saying it was because they were Jewish and they were against Christianity, wrong. They were Jewish by definition only, not in practice of any sort. He did become born again, but this time it was a free choice. </p>
<p>In my case my husband is Episcopalian and I am Jewish. Our children are Jewish. We discussed this prior to getting engaged. (I have found that this sort of discussion is far too rare.) I am a Reform Jew. My in laws were less than thrilled when we got engaged. Tensions can run high in interfaith couples, even without family objection. But I can truly say that if I had married someone Orthodox it would have been very difficult.</p>
<p>“What irritates me is (from what we are presented the way I read it) the dictatorial and inflexible position about what church they would attend.”</p>
<p>ColoradoMom, I don’t think he is dictating what church THEY would attend, only that he would not get married in our church, nor would he allow children to attend our church. I don’t know if it is possible for him to change his mind. My cousin’s wife (from this same church) did, but it has been difficult with her family. </p>
<p>tango, she has spent time around his family–immediate and extended.She enjoys being around them. Everyone seems to love her, but I don’t know if they know about her religious affiliation. (Girls often talk to their parents more than boys do, so . . . ) </p>
<p>I know his family was not happy when he surprised my daughter with tickets to an of state concert (overnight trip–against their values) and my daughter wanted to cancel the trip because of this. Her bf told his dad this was not something he was doing lightly and wanted to know that my daughter did not want to upset them. The dad said they needed to make their own choice and they would abide by whatever that was. They ended up going and had a great time. </p>
<p>I guess I’m really torn. I don’t want to butt in, but OTOH I realize her age and lack of experience (in addition to wearing the rose colored glasses of love) are factors that make it difficult for her to evaluate things clearly.</p>
<p>Maybe I should sit down with her and ask her to look at the situation and ask herself/her bf some questions? I just don’t know.</p>
<p>First of all she is ONLY a sophmore in college, so it might be premature to worry too much about these things yet. OTOH, I married the person I met freshman year when I was 18… </p>
<p>SO much good advice here. I agree with ellebud (post 13) and others. If he feels (or if his FAMILY feels) THIS strongly about their religion vs. yours, it could well make married life more difficult. There seems to be an undertone of-- if not intolerance-- then at least inflexibility there that is worrisome. </p>
<p>I am protestant, H is catholic. Neither of us are particularly religious, and it never occurred to me that religion would be an issue. Except for the occasional funeral or holiday, H. hasn’t attended church since he was a young teen. Despite this, the disapproval (to put it VERY lightly) from his very devout mother has been a source of friction in our marriage from the very beginning. Joyful family occasions can turn into nightmares. You can imagine the reaction upon hearing that our first baby would not be baptised Catholic. My parents came from a mixed marriage. They did their own thing, compromised, took turns, etc. It wasn’t a big deal.</p>
<p>At least I’ve learned how NOT to act when my kids come home with future spouses someday.</p>
<p>I think that if she’s said she doesn’t want to talk about it, she probably knows you have concerns, and she probably knows in her heart that this is going to be a tough thing to work out, but that she’ll need to work it out eventually. So, she’s aware there is a problem. I think that’s all she needs to be right now-- aware.</p>
<p>If they do decide to get engaged somewhere down the road, then it’s probably a good idea to ask her what they’ve worked out in terms of religion, since you know it’s going to be difficult for her. I think as a young adult, I’d respond better to that-- to being queried as to what <em>I</em> had decided-- than anything that remotely implies “you’re too young to know what you’re getting into.”</p>
<p>I also see huge red flags here. Religiosity is the key, not different religions - I was raised Jewish and my fiance was raised Anglican, but neither of us are observant so it’s no big deal - and we’ve discussed what we’ll do with regards to raising kids, etc. Our families are also very tolerant, which is a huge help. </p>
<p>I think that if/when your D and her boyfriend start seriously considering marriage, they need to have an open and honest conversation about what they’ll do. If the boyfriend is truly inflexible, it may come down to a ‘convert or leave’ situation, especially if your D doesn’t want any future children raised in that faith. When the time for that conversation comes, I would try and make sure that your D is fully aware of the possible friction, difficulties etc… but right now, I would just let things simmer a bit.</p>
<p>I have seen both good and bad results with intermarriage. In one situation, a sister, who was a strict adherent of her childhood religion, told her brother that his children of a mixed marriage would not be able to play with hers. She did not keep to that promise anyway. I have seen a couple of marriages where it is a hodgepodge of his and hers practices (a baptism and a bris, etc.) Usually, the grandparents were the most bent out of shape at this, not the married couple.</p>
<p>However, (yes there is always that but), I have seen disasters over the same thing. The family that secretly baptized the child over the spouse’s objections…This is a recipe for divorce. Also it is not clear what not attending the church means. If it means never being able to go to anything, this will certainly bring up alot of tension among the extended family, no?</p>
<p>Speaking from personal experience (as a nominal Episcopalian married to a Jew), I think that the degree of religious commitment is more important to the success of a marriage than the type of religion.</p>
<p>Neither my husband nor I practice any religion. We were brought up in families that gave lip service to religion, but it didn’t “take” for either of us. We brought up our kids without any religious affiliation because neither of us felt right about imposing something on them that we didn’t believe in ourselves. It turned out OK. Despite what some people might think, they didn’t turn out to be ax murderers. As of the last time I communicated with either of them (last night for my son, about three hours ago for my daughter), neither had even been arrested for anything.</p>
<p>So for us – and I think for many couples like us – the fact that ours is a “mixed” marriage is almost irrelevant. There were some slightly shaky times when we first got married (because some of our parents objected) and when we first had kids (because there were issues, mostly generated by our parents, about which holidays to celebrate and with whom), but they were minor and caused no lasting disruption. As usually seems to be the case in situations like ours, it was our parents who had problems, not us (and it was mostly my husband’s parents who were bent out of shape – mine didn’t particularly care, perhaps because they themselves had been in a Protestant/Catholic mixed marriage and had noticed that the world didn’t come to an end because of it).</p>
<p>But a “mixed” marriage in which one or both of the people is deeply committed to a religion that the other does not share is an entirely different matter. In fact, major differences in the degree of religious commitment could be a big problem even if the two people are from the same religion. The OP seems to be talking about such a situation in which religion is very important to at least one member of the couple and in which the two people’s religious views disagree substantially. I think this is a situation to be approached very cautiously, with lots and lots of thinking and planning and discussing various things that might happen, including things that might happen after the couple has children. </p>
<p>I see huge red flags in the OP’s daughter’s situation.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences and advice. I agree that it is not the fact that they belong to different religions, but the fact that his religion is extremely narrow in its view (IMO). I would hope that my daughter would remain with the church that we have raised her in, but I would not think she was going to hell if she changed religions. It is ultimately her decision. </p>
<p>I guess I am sad because, after listening to my own heart and the opinions of other people, it seems like this is a big red flag in their relationship. I have never seen my daughter as happy as she is now. This guy is wonderful and I would love to have him in our family. I wrestled with the idea of talking to her about his religion. She really doesn’t know what she is in for, but after reading a couple of the posts, I think I will let things go for a while.</p>
<p>Worriedmom, I think I’d agree that you can “let things go for awhile.” It doesn’t sound like the kids are considering marriage at this point, they’re still only college sophomores. But if things progress, then I think you’ll want to tactfully bring this up to your D. From the abrupt way she refused to talk to you about it, I’d say she’s well aware that this could become a problem and doesn’t want to deal with it, at least not yet. She’s in love, and she’s happy, and at least for now that’s enough for her. </p>
<p>In the long run, the question will probably be whether or not she’s willing to convert to his religion, since it doesn’t sound like he’ll be able to convert to hers (although you did say he doesn’t attend church at college).</p>
<p>DH was raised Catholic, and I was raised Protestant. After our marriage we tried out several churches in our new town, but it became clear that even if we joined a Protestant church, DH was still going to go to Mass weekly. He had no problem with coming to church with me, then attending a second Catholic service. Since it seemed more important to him (and his family) than to me, I became Catholic, and our kids have been raised Catholic. But I have to say, I’m Catholic in name only. My independent-minded Protestant streak is alive and well; and I can see it in my kids - especially my son, who doesn’t hesitate to question/criticize the Catholic hierarchy. I’m not sure if my “rebelliousness” has raised open-minded kids (yay!) or cynical ones (sad)!</p>
<p>Oldfort: “Religion is much tougher than race. It touches the core of who we are - how we conduct ourselves, our philosophy, our value, everything.” Very true!</p>
<p>Can you find any books or other sources that would help her understand his religion and if that’s something she wants to be a big part of the rest of her life? He doesn’t sound like he takes his faith lightly. Learning about what he has been told all his life will help her decide if she can go along with it.</p>
<p>I totally agree with Oldfort here - religion is at the heart of who we really are - our soul - it’s not as easy as different cultures or even races.</p>
<p>We have mixed marriages in our families and I would say that they generally work best when both parties are religious in name only. Even then, when children come, or big life events, those things tend to come up anyway.</p>
<p>I think if it were my child, I was suggest they trade books about each other’s religion. Let them each pick out a book for the other to read and set aside time - say an hour or two every week or two just to discuss those books. My dh and I did something similar decades ago over other issues and it really paid off in unity and peacefulness.</p>
<p>Also would this young man be comfortable marrying outside of his religion if the woman was not willing to convert or raise the children in his religion. Also is his religion tolerant of a spouse of a different religion.
I was raised one religion my spouse another. We thought it was no big deal to date or even marry. We were married by a judge. There was no way he would marry in a church. I didn’t mind. Once I became pregnant he realized he could not see his children being raised in my church. He would have gone for no religious upbringing for the children at all. I felt they needed something and I didn’t care which. My kids have been raised in my husband’s faith.
Two of my siblings married out of our religion. One of them is raising their children with no religion. The other has no children and they both are not church or mosque goers. It works for them.
I had a good friend who dated a Mormon man. They dated for 3 yrs. when she finally pressed him on marriage he said he had never intended to marry outside of his faith. (I never did care for him) I also have a friend whose D married a Mormon. Her D and grandchildren are practicing Mormon’s. She was not able to attend the wedding. They did have a reception at their home at a later date. This young man would have not married my friend’s D if she had not been willing to convert.
I think the intensity of practice is a factor. Another friend of my D’s will only date born again Christian young men. This is her first priority. I also suspect orthodox jews would not welcome an out of faith relationship.</p>
<p>Your daughter should be aware that the importance of religion can change at various stages of life, not always in predictable ways. Having children will bring up the issue of their religious education. Major setbacks in life (the death of loved ones, or serious illness in oneself) will often prompt the search for comfort in one’s religion. If comfort is found it can reinforce belief. If comfort is not found, beliefs may be discarded. But it is difficult to discard long held beliefs, and the lack of comfort may be not blamed on the failures of the religion. The individual might blame himself as not finding comfort because he is a sinner (deepening depression), or the spouse for leading him astray (anger).</p>
<p>I particularly worry about bad reactions to bad times, when the religion is intolerant of non-believers.</p>